 Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I usually just stop, personally.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| rob@rar, I usually just stop, personally. |
Sometimes it's quicker to drop your hip into the snow than control your speed well enough to come to a halt, although this is normally on steep terrain when it's easy to flop sideways and fairly easy to get back up again (sometimes in the same movement).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| For the most part "advanced" skiers don't spend their days trying to terrorise beginners or the nervous and have little reason to be on the same part of the mountain as them. The exceptions to this are on cat-tracks connecting vital bits of the lift system and particualrly IME on the "home run" at the end of the day. |
There's a long flat path in Les Arcs which must be taken to access the skiing above Peisey & Vallandry, and to get to the link to La Plagne. It's also the main easy run down to Peisey and Vallandry. I ski it most days I'm there and see lots of examples of very considerate skiing and a few examples of very inconsiderate skiing. It's one of those areas where skiers of all abilities share the same piste/path, and this season was quite an eye-opener for me as I often accompanied classes of novices.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I think the fact that you have been accompanying novices has made you think a little deeper about on-piste manners, and I have no doubt that as skiers and boarders become more experienced, that some (not all) forget the detail of the trials and tribulations that newbies may encounter 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, it's not just newbies. My girlfriend has skied quite a lot and is happy on blues and reds, but she is very nervous of skiers and boarders coming too close. She freezes if she hears the scrape of skis or boards close to her, and I know she would be very anxious if someone spoke/shouted a word of warning as they passed her.
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My word! this has taken on a life of its own hasn't it?
Another comment about some of the narrower tracks is that even on a blue some novices may not have the confidence to straight line them without doing something to knock off some speed, depending on conditions (i.e fairly icy) or even just with the width novices may not find that they want to try to put in a little turn and may resort to snowploughing (wide snowploughing) to get down - this can take most of the width of the piste to do in these situations they may not be passable (I'm thinking stretches of the Orelle blue from the VT junction down to the main lift here) I couldn't have put in proper turns in many places on this stretch - they just wasn't enough space for me to feel confident doing so.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| rayscoops, it's not just newbies. My girlfriend has skied quite a lot and is happy on blues and reds, but she is very nervous of skiers and boarders coming too close. She freezes if she hears the scrape of skis or boards close to her, and I know she would be very anxious if someone spoke/shouted a word of warning as they passed her. |
Now we see the reason for Rob's persistence on this - no birthday perks if he doesn't maintain his stance 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Anyone ever skied "banff avenue"? Sometimes you can't give a meter or you risk unwanted physical contact with trees. If you don't sneak through gaps you end up with a very looong walk.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rossfra8, Is that at Sunshine - flat as a pancake and a total joy on a board? I believe a ski patroller got beaten up by some total idiot on it one year. & who says Brits are badly behaved?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| The rules are such that the overtaking slider should not give the other the opportunity to turn into their path (i.e. by giving them enough room that they cannot do so), but there are situations where there is simply not enough room to do that, and where this state continues for quite some time. |
There are very few paths were you do not have enough room to pass. You simply time your move so you pass them on the outside of one of their turns (i.e., they are turning away from you). This can be done on any path which is wide enough to allow a skier to turn. |
Right.
So what you are saying is that you think it more inconsiderate to warn people, so that they don't change their pattern, than it is to just assume they won't, and crash into them if they do.
Because it is exactly the situation you describe that is the one where we are suggesting a warning is agood idea.
In the situation you describe, if they suddenly decide that they are going to turn back agin immediately for some reaosn, just as you pas on what was their "outside", then you hit them.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| alex_heney, the bottom line is that if you have to let someone know your where abouts when passing them in order to avoid a potential fall or a unexpected turn then you are too close? and this would be the case for any type of piste, I suppose?? |
Yes.
But there are times when it is the only practical option unless you want to spend a long time behind somebody.
Although you say it would be the case for any type of piste, I don't think anybody is suggesting it is acceptable on anything other than the "cat track" type of run. And even then, only if you have a long stretch without any widening.
And in fact, the few times I have felt the need to do it it has been on pretty well flat tracks, so much so that if I hadn't passed them, I would have slowed so much that I would have had to pole soon.
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Rossfra8, Is that at Sunshine - flat as a pancake and a total joy on a board? I believe a ski patroller got beaten up by some total idiot on it one year. & who says Brits are badly behaved? |
Yes, it is the home run under the gondola. It isn't actually as narrow as the type of pistes we are talking of in this thread, although when it get crowded, it might as well be.
Towards the end of the day, they post patrollers at a number of the bends with big "SLOW DOWN" signs they can hold out to people they think are going too fast.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| So what you are saying is that you think it more inconsiderate to warn people, so that they don't change their pattern, than it is to just assume they won't, and crash into them if they do. |
When have I said that it is better to risk crashing in to somebody? I've said you should overtake somebody if you have enough space to do so safely, otherwise be patient. I've never crashed into another skier under these circumstances. Not even close to it. I do think it is inconsiderate to put yourself into a situation where you are required to warn somebody of your presence.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| So what you are saying is that you think it more inconsiderate to warn people, so that they don't change their pattern, than it is to just assume they won't, and crash into them if they do. |
When have I said that it is better to risk crashing in to somebody?
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It was the implication of what you said.
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I've said you should overtake somebody if you have enough space to do so safely, otherwise be patient. I've never crashed into another skier under these circumstances. Not even close to it.
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I'm sure you haven't. But (from your description) only beause they were skiing in a predictable manner, and continued doing so as yuo passed them.
And where somebody is skiing in a controlled and predictable mannr on that type of piste, they will continue to do so as you pass on the vast majority of cases. Probably well in excess of 99%.
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I do think it is inconsiderate to put yourself into a situation where you are required to warn somebody of your presence. |
Well you are never "required" to do so. Which makes your statement rather maningless.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, I totally agree, I think this is where I was coming from with my tale on the first page. We are out there to have fun and we need to be considerate of others no matter what their ability or discipline is.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kristof,
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we need to be considerate of others no matter what their ability or discipline is
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I agree with you, but consideration and respect work both ways. I'm not a novice, but I have occasionally (not too often these days, luckily) been known to get spooked on steep, crowded, icy slopes and been reduced to making horrible slow turns all over the piste. It goes with that terrible feeling, which is by no means confined to novices, of being scared when another skier comes within so much as a mile of me. However, I don't feel I have the right, in those circumstances, to hold all the better, faster skiers on the slope to ransom, by expecting them to keep behind me just in case I decide to turn in an unexpected direction. I expect them to pass me and, provided they've done their best to pass me safely, that's fair enough.
I think JT summed this issue up most succinctly:
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I try and give nervous skiers as wide a berth as poss... but sometimes they just have to accept there other people about.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, Happy Birthday for yesterday! ANOTHER pair of skis? That's, what, 9 pairs in the quiver? I seem to recall you bought a pair last month as well...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, totally agree, if I think someone is behind is skiing behind me faster, I make sure there is room for them to overtake so I'm not blocking them or spoiling their fun 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Trouble for me is I don't tend to hear skis behind me as I have a loud tinnitus.
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Coming in late to this thread...
I always wait behind people and never have a problem with that. If I see a place I can pass quietly and smoothly without fuss and with room for error then I do so, otherwise I wait behind. The other thing I don't do is sweep past somebody and immediately slam the anchors on and stop in front of them - lots of people seem to feel they need to do this, and I've been wiped out by somebody doing this to me.
Mr DS sometimes gets cross with me and says I should have more confidence to pass, but it isn't that - I was a beginner more recently than he was, and therefore know what it is like to be buzzed. When I'm waiting behind somebody, you often get skiers coming past both of us. I feel it is too close and I'm now relatively experienced, so goodness knows what the beginner in front of me must feel like.
There is a big difference in the feel of somebody considerately coming past, quietly and without fuss, and somebody buzzing past, not quite in control, and perhaps spraying you with snow at the same time.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| rayscoops, it's not just newbies. My girlfriend has skied quite a lot and is happy on blues and reds, but she is very nervous of skiers and boarders coming too close. She freezes if she hears the scrape of skis or boards close to her, and I know she would be very anxious if someone spoke/shouted a word of warning as they passed her. |
I stil find it hard to believe that if someone is that nervous they manage to get onto the mountain in the first place....no disrespect intended but I learnt to ski as a child whilst on holiday in Austria and got used to the shouts of "Attenzione" etc etc - it's not people being rude or dominant or trying to make you change your line, it's just courtesy to some people! A bit like excuse me.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Robbof wrote: |
| I stil find it hard to believe that if someone is that nervous they manage to get onto the mountain in the first place |
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe. But that doesn't make it untrue. I've skied or taught a few people this season who are reasonably competent recreational skiers but are extremely anxious about being crashed in to, and any indication that people are skiing very close to them (the sound of skis or board, shouting, etc) makes them anxious. I find it hard to believe that anyone finds that hard to believe
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Trouble for me is I don't tend to hear skis behind me as I have a loud tinnitus. |
Is that something like a trumpet?
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry to have started the "pole clicking" and left (work, family, chickens all got inthe way).
So, to recap, I was genuinely interested in fellow skiers views. The only time I have resorted to "clicking" is on paths where I have committed to an overtaking and realised the "overtakee" may be about to change direction unexpectedly.
I agree that if the "overtakee" has no choice but to change direction then pole clicking isn't the answer, but if that were the case I wouldn't be overtaking in the first place.
"To click, or not to click, that is the Question!"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, when trying to get past you, the best technique is to shout "bar". You then speed up to a point where no-one can overtake you
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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maggi, I guess the klaxon is out of the question for the same reason? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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maggi, I do. I remember sharing a chair with you, and as we came near the top, I said "bar", meaning "take your skis off the footrest that is keeping the safety bar in place and raise it so that we can get off". It was a good job the liftie was on the ball otherwise we'd still be on the lift with you scanning the horizon for the nearest hostelry 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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maggi, Thought I had stumbled on a completely different type of website for a minute.... the sort my mum warned me about! 
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FAQ
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you know me too well!
(although not by me, obviously. I'd delegate 
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