Extreme Snowboard Carving Serious Safety and Courtesy Issue

A snowHead

@motyl, How would a skier know how fast they were going? Eyes glued to an app? snowHead

A snowHead

MorningGo-something or other, I presume you are using the royal We, or are you a formal moderator? By the way I am happy to end the discussion. In fact in an effort to do so I will minimize my replies to only such comments as clearly seek one.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

As a snowboarder, I do have sympathy for your scenario. A board really does dig in and put on speed when properly leant over in a deep carve, to the point of unnatural acceleration. Personally I would always look, especially in your scenario as a goofy foot rider, but you should always give yourself enough room to stop (lets be honest none of us do that when we are overtaking....).

What I would say though is this is justice for the many times skiers have changed direction in front of me over the years Laughing

I've only hit a few skiers in 25+ years, and they were all stationary in the middle of the hill over the brow. NehNeh

PS ive never read the rules either Wink

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@bumpybrandy I'm fairly sure that all the serious posts on this thread are in agreement that the snowboarder who did this was an idiot and not following the code of conduct (rule 1 about not prejudicing other slope users). If this had resulted in an accident and there had been the possibility of civil or criminal liability, I don't think it would be all on you, but no-one here is going to seriously attempt to pronounce what the outcome of that might be. What the majority are saying is "if you can't avoid the idiot below you, you are too close to that idiot, even if you don't know he's an idiot."

The thing that I can't reconcile is that you say that "at average-to-low speed", "he crossed twenty feet into [your] line" "before [you] could blink" [I'm taking quotes from two of your posts on page 1]. If "average-to-low speed" is 15mph and he carved it perfectly, that would take at least 1.6 seconds. That's not a blink, that's a microsleep. The UK highway code gives under .7 seconds "thinking time" to start applying brakes in an emergency stop. That leaves you nearly a second to adjust your course and/or slow down (although you say there was none). If you had that 9/10ths of a second and he was running perpendicular to you and you were also at 15mph, then you'd need a minimum 10 degree turn right to pass behind him (arcsin(1m/(6.7ms⁻¹ × 0.9s)) = 9.5°), even if you didn't slow at all. A hockey stop (even if you don't finish it) will do a lot more than that!

So it seems that, either you had more time to avoid the idiot, or you were closer, or you were both going a lot faster than "average-to-low speed" in which case it sounds like you should have been further apart.

If I've misunderstood, please enlighten me (quantitatively if you can).

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UKoldschool wrote: "A board really does dig in and put on speed when properly leant over in a deep carve, to the point of unnatural acceleration. Personally I would always look, especially in your scenario as a goofy foot rider, but you should always give yourself enough room to stop (lets be honest none of us do that when we are overtaking....)."

I know I'm already breaking my only reply to direct inquiries rule but you are the first person who described what I'm talking about perfectly. The deeper sidecut and the ability to shift all of one's weight over their toes and the edge immediately, and then to use the potential energy built up in the board flex to actually accelerate sideways is what I mean! Not just hard carving, I've been skiing with snowboards since the first Burton slit-tail, which I actually owned. I'm talking about what you describe and I feel strongly based on my voluminous experience that this ability is so specific to carving boards being ridden in the euro carve fashion that I'm not sure most respondents really comprehend what I'm describing. This style is like literally a year or two old at most.

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'Did not' what?

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We all know the rules are highly deficient. And even experienced skiers who should know better will ignore them or interpret them to suit themselves on occasion e.g. French uniformed race coach who came from behind me then cut 1 foot in front of me causing me to take emergency evasion who then I) denied there were rules and II) said it was my fault anyway as I " turned the wrong way" C##t.

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Oh, leave him enough space to make all his movements freely. That is precisely why I'm emphasizing that this new manner of euro carving is something that did not exist at the time of the drafting of the above rule, for which you are such a stickler. For illustration, the 3rd Amendment to US Constitution stated that "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." This was undoubtedly proposed and ratified because the Revolutionary War had ended, leaving a number of now unemployed soldiers who were trying to continue to stay in homes they had been quartered in during a time of war. Hence, a new circumstance that did not exist at the time of the original drafting required consideration and ultimately rectification. Are you an FIS Code of Conduct Originalist? If so why don't I have to have leashes tied between my boot and ski as I did in my early youth? Because brakes were invented. THINGS CHANGE!

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Oh, what incisive irony, so worthy of your pregnant guttural pre-utterance. I shall henceforth carry with me a vial of Boa anti-venom. I mean, they're not supposed to be in New York City, but you never know, things do change.

You know it makes sense.

I'm on E-bay looking for used boot-leashes.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Prior to the early 1980's skiers connected each of their ski boots to their respective ski binding with a safety leash so that when the bindings released the skis would not run down the hill and hurt others. Rather, they would stay quite connected to you as you tumbled and got slashed repeatedly about the face.

A snowHead

sounds like a good system

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Richard_Sideways, ironically they were called "safety straps"!

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Loop of piano wire around the calf too I suppose... sounds fine, I'm in.

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@bumpybrandy, from your description of the other slope user having zero downward speed and travelling perpendicular to the slope…. You ran into someone effectively traversing the piste…. and you think it isn’t your fault??

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Handy, for rule of litigation, never ask a question to which you don't already know the answer. Not a single moment of that video shows euro carvings extreme and sustained accelerated direction change, and none of those hard charging carves capture what I am describing. Back to you-tube for you.

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@bumpybrandy, that video precisely shows euro carving.

If what you are describing is different, then I suggest you trawl YouTube and post what you mean

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This thread is hilarious. Old dude, who feels the need to tell is all what an expert he is "expert bumps, trees, steeps fanatic, etc.", is straightlining a piste "basically just standing up gliding", runs into a downhill slope user. But it's not his fault. Pages and pages of justification.

He was not paying attention. And felt that he only had to make allowances for "normal" turns from those below him on the slopes. In other words he feels entitled to expect those below him on the slope to only make turns that suit him.

Then he gets all huffy because he said VT meaning Vermont, on a UK baed website where that would normally be taken to mean Val Thorens. I suspect he has been shot down on some US based forum so thought he would try his luck here tbh.

Time to hang up the ski boots old boy. You are a danger to yourself and others.

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@tsgsh, Some racers were using Boa boots in training for one of the WC downhills earlier in the season, for the race itself they were back in boots with clips, maybe that is proof that the vaccine works.

Dode: Yes, he was standing completely still, frozen in time and space. Then he magically with no effort shot to the left and his cells reconstituted at the tip of my skis. Bros, wake up! He and I were both cruising at a pretty mellow speed, maybe 15-20mph-ish, down a pretty mild pitch. We were separated in elevation and proximity. He bent down as if to tuck for speed and then instead leaned over his toes, loaded up his board laterally and shot off to the left literally accelerating to end up in front of me in the BLINK OF AN EYE. I'm not friggin blind and my reaction times are not in question in any form. So?

You know it makes sense.

Solely in the interests of prolonging the splendid exchanges - I thought eurocarving was when you are over so far on your snowboard that your whole body is basically a few cm above the snow . So it would seem difficult for the said eurocarver to be level with your midriff as per your post , unless you were doing that youth thing of skiing along with your knees bent so much that you have your bottom just above the snow . Were you really doing that ?if you were , huge respect as my knees would never cope .

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@tsgsh, all true, and the straps were much better at saving others than brakes are. Interestingly, elsewhere on SH there is a thread about a new requirement for boarders to wear a leash while on the chair. Occasionally, idiot skiers will whack their skis together, and kick one off while on the chair, and the brakes are useless for the people below. If boarders need to wear leashes for this unlikely eventuality, will skiers be required to next? I hope not, they were a pain in the butt. And our new hero was correct about this much: the skis did whack you in the face when you fell. My physical scars have faded with age, but they happened in March 1972 on headwall! PS: I also had some “fo-fo-fos”

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Ok Kramer, so as usual it comes down to a measuring contest so since we're all so engaged here I will put out there what I am and what I certainly am not.
A) I am not a talented debater, although it is fun trying. I simply know what happened and know that it was not something you guys wanna see happening on your local mountain.
B) I must state, unless my recall on this is poor, I don't believe I have made a single statement that indicated anything consequential nor elevated about the level of skier ability I see myself as. Nonetheless, I am a 52-year-old who is but one among millions of expert lifelong skiers, never even presuming to dream about approaching the level of genuine athletes, dedicated amateur or professional, let alone ski gods. I've been bumping (excuse me if the American run names don't ring any bells) Outer Limits, Goat, Julio, Expert Chutes, Alta chutes Tower 3, etc. back before your cute curvaceous skis did the turning for you with a big ass daylight gap between your feet. At 49 I cleared the goat path, not used, cleared, at Corbett's. I hit the Big [Couloir] at Big Sky at 50 and found that it was only the third hardest run I had enjoyed that day. And although NOTHING could be less the measure of a skier's skill than the top speed they travel by bombing with out any need for skill down a run, the highest speed I ever happened to notice on Ski Tracks since downloading it was 56+ mph on an empty runout to get to gondola without walking, and that was on a pair of Solomon 1080 Moguls which are basically short toothpicks. I have no doubt that when I was young and as dumb as you seem to think i still am that I went far faster because I fully remember that sensation of watching the world in front of me shake faster than my eyeballs could. So please, stick to debating.

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TSGH, he accelerated 'out of' the extremely short and compressed arc. I am in an office at this moment with a professional structural engineer who concurs that the correct term would that his movements applied a "bending moment" to his board, which then released energy from his board in a "recovery" or "spring back" action.

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@bumpybrandy, It was in your first sentence. You actually started this whole thing by telling us how great a skier you are. Which is an odd thing to do. Even before you described the incident you made sure we all knew you were such an expert.

Then doubled down above. I have never seen such a boastful description of one's skiing, let alone that was you describe is not all that impressive actually.

You are not coming across well I have to say.

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I have some safety straps that I bought in 1983 - in case the new fangled brakes didn’t work. I was just wondering, if they are going to come back into use, should I buy a helmet with a visor to protect my ugly mug? Should I start a new thread?

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I will go back and read my first entry immediately to see if you are correct. That would be embarrassing. I can tell you i agree that nothing I said makes me some special skier, in fact I included in detail precisely what I was not. However, do I sound like I don't know how to avoid a low-speed collision?

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You are correct, in my second sentence I did in fact state "I'm 52yo, skiing since the 70's, aging expert bumps, trees, steeps fanatic, etc" So technically you make a totally valid point. I can state with certainty that the purpose of the description was to not waste time being told I'm not capable of avoiding a low-speed collision. I presumed my description was of a level that is so common among skiers that it would not draw any attention as a form of brag. Expert is essentially a defined term used in the ski industry and I have no qualms about defining myself, and as I said "millions of" others in the same manner. I suppose I am not coming off well. I know my mommy says I'm special. But my point is not about me and I only mention myself when I face constant accusations because YOU and others of the same opinion are not listening. The issue is that of an unsafe pattern evolving. Would you not resist bi-athletes practicing their marksmanship in the middle of a run? So why would you support perpendicular riding? When you cross an intersecting run the onus is on you to look up and not cause a collision. So how is skiing perpendicular to a run in the manner i describe fine?

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@bumpybrandy, having had this specific experience in the manner you describe, what would you do differently the next time you’re skiing in similar circumstances?

Help!!

Extreme Snowboard Carving Serious Safety and Courtesy Issue

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