 Poster: A snowHead
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| @davidof, damn! Agree it must've been quite the fall, glad you sacrificed the femur instead of the cranium! Mend well and soon. |
A stupid slip crossing the road. I was walking between two offices so classed as a work injury, which is better for insurance. |
Or ice in the dark and building shadows? |
Maybe black ice
They may do a scan but the surgeon said he had real trouble drilling through my thigh would not make a good gigot Am in french public hospital.
Btw I don't put GPS tracking on around town just if I am out walking or moving around n my own. After the poor girl in the Pyrenees could be useful
Sorry for the thread diversion. I read all the map replies with interest and see lots of posts on the main page from people less fortunate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I checked the rules and there are no demerits for thread drift by fracturers of femurs. I won't be the one to say they get a break.
Appreciate the big boy attitude here. No lawyering up mentioned. Reminds me of the day I was in Anchorage (Alaska) looking out the window. Here comes my architect for our meeting. Ah, he's down, broke his wrist. He comes in, I get him comfortable and ask, "So Don, you gonna sue me?". He said "nah, this is Alaska. This is normal.".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@davidof, oh no! What bad luck. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I had settled on taking both but season over for me. I slipped and fell walking into work this am and broke my femur. Waiting for surgeon now. |
Your feckin femur!!!
That must have been one hell of a fall!
Ice did for me a few seasons back, off games for four of so weeks, probably busted floating rib, then fecked it again in a kite mare accident!
Feel for you, just need to get your head around being off-games which is tough!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I did my femur. in my 30s (I am over 60 now). in a bike race. Spiral fracture. Many pieces. Six weeks in traction, another 4 in a splint. Lots of rehab to recover mobility in the knee and recover lost muscle. back to normal after about nine months. Is yours pinned now? If so, your recovery should be much quicker.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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[quote="Weathercam"]
| davidof wrote: |
| I had settled on taking both but season over for me. I slipped and fell walking into work this am and broke my femur. Waiting for surgeon now. |
Your feckin femur!!!
Ice did for me a few seasons back, off games for four of so weeks, probably busted floating rib, then fecked it again in a kite mare accident!
/quote]
Kitemsre, that amused me, I don't remember you working for the tabloids
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@davidof Didn't get that yesterday, so sad! Speedy recovery!
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@davidof,
Get better soon , my sister bust her NOF on a very similar slip only skiing slipped as she reached for a tow. She's back and well now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My opinion – this needn’t be binary – it doesn’t have to be exclusively one or the other – the answer is that both have pros and cons, hence my approach is to use both.
I’ve had a good 45 years of a love affair with maps – they are amazing. The thing is, that I also love tech – it’s amazing too. I have a full subscription to FatMap and absolutely love it, using it in the mountains winter and summer, and in the UK for hikes.
Obviously, the key pro with GPS is knowing exactly where you are. I was once on a hike on Skiddaw in the lake district in mid-December, there was a foot of snow obscuring all the paths, and the cloud came in to give us a full ‘white out’ with visibility of about 20 yards. A map would have been little use to us, as there were no features to be seen, but we had no trouble getting back down – using FatMap, we exactly, confidently and quickly followed the path, all the way down. That would have been a very different process 10 years ago – carefully picking our way down, with lots of double-checking.
I have often said that is now feels like we’re cheating, compared to where we would have been in the 80s and 90s
Network Coverage
I always ensure that I have all maps and planned routes downloaded to my phone, using wi-fi at home before I set off. Both the satellite view and IGN or OS. So then, I don’t need any network coverage whilst on the hill.
NB: GPS is a passive receiver – it doesn’t require network data to function, you just need to have ‘location’ activated on your phone.
Battery Life
A con is battery life, my approach to this, is to use Airplane mode for the entire trip. I find that I can get several days of use from my phone when it’s not constantly trying to search for and communicate with network towers.
I often break this rule, with a brief session at the end of the day (if network is available), to catch up on all my messages in one go and send updates back home that we’re not dead. Then back to Airplane mode for the evening and usually fully shut down over night.
I also take a small pocket power bank that is good for four full charges – so that will cover me for circa 12 days. I completed a four day hut tour in the Vanoise this summer with 80% battery having done just one recharge from the power bank.
Tech Failure
I aim to ensure that everyone in our group also has the same set up on their phones – maps and routes downloaded to be available offline, using airplane mode etc. Such that if my phone is lost or broken, we have back up devices to use.
Time
Using the phone to follow a planned route is quick and easy – “keep the blue dot on the green line”. I try to train myself to look well ahead, so that I only need to get the phone out and check very mile or so – sometimes more if there aren’t any turnings. This also helps me to enjoy the views and stop staring at the phone.
Plastic IGN Maps
Someone mentioned the waterproof plastic IGN maps above – they are the ones with an “R” suffix.
e.g. for Val d’isere 3633 ETR ( the paper version would be 3633 ET)
In summary, I use both.
I prefer all the advantages of using my phone, but take a map and compass in my bag in case everything goes wrong – and also to spread across the table at supper time.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
So my take on this:
GPS maps are great and very useful.
For short missions (say a little hike or MTB trip) I use them all time.
For a proper mission (say a 4000m peak or multi day ski tour) then a paper map, folded in water-proof, case still has a place.
Even if it is just used as a back up.
Why ?
- No battery required.
- No need to take gloves off to navigate the page / scroll in & out.
- Useful for proper micro navigation. Scale remains the same.
- Phone can be kept dry in a pocket.
Ultimately a GPS drains battery faster than any other smart phone application.
If your smart phones dies AND you lose the ability to navigate AND call for help then a minor problem rapidly becomes serious.
The paper map might only be a back up - but it is a reassuring one to have at times. |
+1, also always carry a Silva compass, easy to use, virtually indestructible and very handy if lost in featureless woodland terrain
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I just got a new phone, and in all the propaganda that came with it, it looks like it will have starlink access this year for emergency and text, and full internet access over starlink in 2025. For me there is rarely any phone access when I’m outside of a larger town, so I always use an inreach. Not sure I would trust a phone to replace it but it will definitely be a useful extra feature.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
+1, also always carry a Silva compass, easy to use, virtually indestructible and very handy if lost in featureless woodland terrain
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Plus an altimeter.
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Do you have to calibrate an altimeter, depending on current atmospheric pressure at sea level?
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Do you have to calibrate an altimeter, depending on current atmospheric pressure at sea level? |
It depends which device you are using. For example my Garmin watch has a barometric altimeter which automatically calibrates by GPS at the start of an activity. But it can also be manually calibrated if you want to.
My Wahoo cycling head-unit has a barometric altimeter which automatically calibrates periodically via GPS (not sure how often), but cannot be manually calibrated. So it's good for recording total altitude climbed, but inaccurate for finding current altitude.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| musehead wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Do you have to calibrate an altimeter, depending on current atmospheric pressure at sea level? |
It depends which device you are using. For example my Garmin watch has a barometric altimeter which automatically calibrates by GPS at the start of an activity. |
Do you know how this works in detail? Because I can't imagine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Do you have to calibrate an altimeter, depending on current atmospheric pressure at sea level?
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At points of known height from a map you enter the height into the altimeter. By not using GPS the battery lasts for years so are constantly reliable.
I set mine every morning before going out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Tristero wrote: |
| musehead wrote: |
It depends which device you are using. For example my Garmin watch has a barometric altimeter which automatically calibrates by GPS at the start of an activity. |
Do you know how this works in detail? Because I can't imagine. |
The altimeter is already calibrated at the factory so that it can measure increase/decrease in altitude according to a measured increase/decrease in air pressure.
But it doesn't know the current altitude if it's not been set recently. So all you have to do is tell it the current altitude, and then it will accurately track your altitude according to pressure changes (until the weather changes).
It can accurately measure the current altitude via GPS (along with the EU, Russian and Chinese satellite systems) as long as it can see enough satellites, so it can determine the current altitude itself to calibrate the altimeter without user input. But you can turn off this feature and do it manually instead if you want.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Tristero, the GPS will give a value for altitude but, because it is optimised for lateral position, that value is ‘noisy’. An average over time will be accurate, but you’ll need a long time. So, what these units do is work out the difference between the barometric and GPS altitudes and then add a small fraction of that to the accumulator that corrects the barometric altitude. So, over time, the barometric altitude will be correct and you can use that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
It can accurately measure the current altitude via GPS
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Some altimeters might but my Suunoto does not have any GPS (other GNSS are available) capability. You have to calibrate it a couple times a day if a depression is coming in for example. That is why it does not need charging every day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| altis wrote: |
| @Tristero, the GPS will give a value for altitude but, because it is optimised for lateral position, that value is ‘noisy’. |
I have programmed in altitude and gps coordinates in my Garmin bike computer so it calibrate the altitude if I pass through those coordinates. I don't remember checking how well this works but could be useful for a ski tour too.
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I've experienced the "noisy" altitude signal of a GPS when using satnav in Genova, where there are many roads very close to each other horizontally, as seen from satellites, but separated vertically.
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@davidof, that's neat. My baby Foretrex 401 just uses something like the algorithm shown above. However, when I get to a refuge with the altitude marked over the door it's often still within a metre or two.
@pam w, with an automotive satnav there's another element that comes into play. Unless you're 100's of metres out, it will assume that you're on a piece of tarmac so, as though they are magnetic, it will move your location to the nearest piece of road. When you're in the mountains on a zig-zag road, not only are you shielded from many satellites (thus reducing accuracy) but a small lateral error could also put you on a different zig or zag. I don't think that they take any notice of your altitude to calculate where you are.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My old Suunto Ambit I always had to religiously set the altitude every morning, and theoretically, if the weather was changing, barometric pressure would change and hence altitude readings would not be accurate too!
Bike computers too have not been brilliant in recording altitude, Garmin Edge & Wahoo elemnt Bolt but my Garmin Fenix 6 is nigh on spot on all the time.
Today was interesting as I was ski touring in an area where in the past I'd planned & ski toured a couple of times a route that took me between two rock outcrops, and as I'd not been up there for a couple of years, I made sure to download the track and store it off-line in my FatMap app which greatly helped me when I found myself in the pooh the other day, trying to find the damn dog, and in that particular scenario it would have been interesting to see how good someone just using a paper map would be in that terrain!
Back to today, and when it mattered and when I wanted to confirm that I was broadly taking the right route took my phone out to find out that my FatMap subscription had run out a couple of hours earlier!
So it was a little challenging, not least in that I was with the OH and wanted to take a route that was not too arduous for skinning, and I'd find that gap in the rocks, which in a forest you can't see too well, so was a case of following my nose and trying to remember the route which in the end, whether more by luck or judgement I succeeded in.
Now if I was completely new to the sector and was just relying on a paper map I doubt my map skills would suffice.
This was the route and you can easily, at least on the map see the two rock bands and the steepness, but like I say, chapeau to someone who could find their way up there.
https://fatmap.com/adventureid/102070056/val-des-pres-trail-running?fmid=cp
Should add that quite a few of "my routes" I've scoped out in the Summer hiking, and or found the route to ski by climbing it first if that makes sense, but still can go wrong as it sort of did on Friday.
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@Weathercam, there's another thing to be wary of. When we are accustomed to using all this technology it's easy for our mapping skills to become rusty. Sometimes it can be important to know quickly where we are and in which direction to head. I remember when I did the Yorkshire 3-peaks in mid-winter and, unknowingly, I had run out of pre-planned route on baby Garmin it took me a little while to properly get back into paper mode.
https://vibram.org.uk/bootprint0901.htm#Three
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Caught in a “hoolie” last year on flotilla in Greece (28 knots, head on waves which was like having a bucket of water chucked over you every two minutes when the bow slammed into the waves)
Instruments on yacht failed, waterproof iphone decided it wouldn’t charge as it was “damp” - we had paper charts but weren’t sure where we were exactly cos we’d been using the phone so it was lucky we could see other yachts from our flotilla in the distance and could follow them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not skiing but hiking... I like to plan on the computer on a my big screen. Download offline maps and GPX to my phone for navigation. Would have a back up paper map for anything important / risky / multi day. For UK day-hikes I consider a second phone with offline maps and GPX downloaded (hiking partner) and a small battery pack to be a sufficient back up.
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
| Not skiing but hiking... I like to plan on the computer on a my big screen. Download offline maps and GPX to my phone for navigation. Would have a back up paper map for anything important / risky / multi day. For UK day-hikes I consider a second phone with offline maps and GPX downloaded (hiking partner) and a small battery pack to be a sufficient back up. |
personally I would almost always have a map as well but main thing I was going to say is that I often take screen shots of key map sections from OS / fatmaps etc and have them stored as images on my phone. I THINK getting hold of these probably consumes less battery than (even offline) mapping apps. Just a back up and may be excessively cautious.
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You know it makes sense.
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| johnE wrote: |
@LaForet,
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This lets me download and print out topographical and geological maps of selected areas I'm traversing.
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Geological maps? I love the idea that you are aware of the geology of the area you are travelling over. It's great.
Much as I love using Outdoor active on my phone I am very aware that a/ I may not be able to download a map because there is no mobile phone signal and I forgot to download the map in advance. There are lots of areas in the mountains without phone signals and b/ the phone may run out of power. Sorry paper maps and compasses are still required. |
This.
Electronic devices are vastly superior for actually navigating now. But nothing beats a physical map + compass + basic practice in usage for emergencies.
Would also note that for some stuff, I will use digital mapping for route planning, but have printouts of some bits because it is easier to look at on a4 if it is complex, and then map + compass for emergency navigation.
Unfortunately I would also argue that the reality is now that most of us (me included!) don't practice enough to actually be able to navigate well via paper map... Most of my hikes are in surrey where the response to oh *bleep* I am lost and my phone is flat would be hike along the path (chances are I would hit civilisation in a comparable amount of time to digging my map out of the bottom of my pack; Let alone locating where I am...)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The electronics are fine if they keep going. But faced with a blank screen you might not know where to start. Sailing across the channel we do an hourly plot on a paper chart, which would give a starting point giving that we would have a very good idea of course and speed and we would always have plotted tides hour by hour to arrive at a course to steer (a course which would be steered by an autohelm). But realistically, with two built in plotters and two tablets, they wouldn't all give up at once! And though I was once quite a good navigator, like @qwerty360, I don't practice enough to keep my skills going and am more than happy to be able to look at a screen rather than sit at a chart table long enough to feel thoroughly sick.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We have just returned from Faro in Portugal where we visited the maritime museum above the harbour master's office. In there is a model of the Bom_Sucesso. In 1808 this open caique (probably less than 30') sailed from nearby Olhão to Brazil with important news.
"You can't miss it, just head down the coast of Africa and turn right!"
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viagem_do_Caíque_Bom_Sucesso
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FAQ
