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France Updates Travel Restrictions

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Checking PS at one of the main chairlifts out of the village in LDA yesterday.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
peanuthead wrote:
Do any Irish travellers have any information, if going to France via GVA, is PCR test required, or does this count as exempt as transiting??


https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/france/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A word of caution. The French resorts are getting full of French that do not need to pass a test to return home or to access the lifts. They are mostly double vaxed - not boosted - and just get in the car at the end of their trip. Nothing wrong with that, but as a result, in Chamonix at least, discipline is extremely lax, especially in cable cars where you want it most.

The moral of this is that you cannot assume that you will have a negative test on departure as a result, unless you let COVID dominate your trip i.e. no gondolas, don't join lift queues and don't go out.

This happened to a young relative of mine last week - on a school ski trip, a handful tested negative 2 days before the end and they are now quarantined in France very expensively and missing Christmas as a result.
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22 dropout wrote:
A word of caution. The French resorts are getting full of French that do not need to pass a test to return home or to access the lifts. They are mostly double vaxed - not boosted - and just get in the car at the end of their trip. Nothing wrong with that, but as a result, in Chamonix at least, discipline is extremely lax, especially in cable cars where you want it most.

The moral of this is that you cannot assume that you will have a negative test on departure as a result, unless you let COVID dominate your trip i.e. no gondolas, don't join lift queues and don't go out.

This happened to a young relative of mine last week - on a school ski trip, a handful tested negative 2 days before the end and they are now quarantined in France very expensively and missing Christmas as a result.


You are right. But there is zero need for us to quarantine. We drove here, have plenty of our own tests, and using UK based test (via camera) to get home, ie no need to bother the French state with our covid status. If we test positive we will wait it out in our accommodation until we test negative on the LFD and can come home
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@22 dropout, did you mean a handful tested positive?
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They do need to be double vaccinated to get on the lifts. Agree it’s very variable on the checks.
I was skiing at Grand Montets & Brevent / Flegere last week, GM was very strict on checking vaccinations- less so at Brevent and Flegere

Decent adherence to masks on the lifts (well compared to the UK)...though a couple of times I asked people on the Bochard to put their mask on. One lady on the Ch Bozon cablecar used a headband when challenged by a lifetie about her lack of a mask Wink

Quote:

hey are mostly double vaxed - not boosted - and just get in the car at the end of their trip. Nothing wrong with that, but as a result, in Chamonix at least, discipline is extremely lax, especially in cable cars where you want it most.

The moral of this is that you cannot assume that you will have a negative test on departure as a result, unless you let COVID dominate your trip i.e. no gondolas, don't join lift queues and don't go out.

This happened to a young relative of mine last week - on a school ski trip, a handful tested negative 2 days before the end and they are now quarantined in France very expensively and missing Christmas as a result
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Pamski, I hope he did. Otherwise that’s a lot of people on a school trip stopping there!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Levi215 wrote:
@michaelbury17, I appreciate your situation, unfortunately the way out or the mitigation of it has long since gone. Insurance does cover it in certain policies as do the booking policies of various lets, I.e. a clause which states if you cannot get there due to covid, borders closed etc at the time of travel full refund.

Generally anyone who provides any service has incurred costs, whether it’s capital or operational may or may not be relevant. The person liable generally is the one taking the risk, this season was never risk free and to boot it carried additional costs.


You make valid points, clearly when we took out our policy this was based on the advice at the time from Govt...we were well on our way out of the woods & life would return to some kind of normality.

Look, I understand that owners incur costs, I have been in the BTL business in the UK for many years, thats the risk I take, yet ultimately renting properties out is a business.

Yes, hindsight is wonderful, yet life has to continue in some format, at least I have the backstop of the credit card company.
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Hurdy wrote:
I think that the lessons here are either buy the best travel insurance that you can afford or not book something that you cannot afford to lose.


Indeed, note to self...either use a TO or buy a policy which includes closed borders, isn't life simple after the event? Puzzled
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It’s a pity as the 3V have on the whole very generous cancellation policies up to the day before for covid reasons. We have benefited from this for our rental in St Martin and also been offered it elsewhere in Morzine. It seems you may have been unlucky and picked somewhere through VRBO which does not have equivalent rights: https://www.les3vallees.com/en/guide/covid-19-peace-of-mind/cancellation-guarantee[/quote

Absolutely agree, after looking into VRBO it does seem that they don't really give a t**s about their clients owners/renters just in it for the money..surprised not at all rolling eyes rolling eyes
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@michaelbury17, yebbut it was clear well before you booked that most policies would not cover such things. I asked you earlier, maybe on another thread, what your insurance cover was when you booked but you didn't answer.

I've just moved my Jan 3rd eurotunnel to July, (cost £14). I cancelled my en route hotel FOC. When I booked my 10th Dec trip at the end of the summer I knew I wouldn't have cancellation cover for the current circumstances. I got a full refund on car hire and parking and wrote of the flight cost, which was sunk cost anyway.

I haven't mentioned accommodation in resort as I have my own place.

I booked for the birthday bash, again knowing I had no insurance cover if it goes tits up.

I really can't understand why anyone would have booked at trip in April, during lockdown, without knowing they were taking a risk
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
[quote="skitow"]@michaelbury17, @Skimum1, I had our place with VRBO until the subscription ran out early this year, 2021, and I did not renew for various reasons. I seem to remember stuff coming through about covid related refunds and you had the choice to allow covid related refunds or not.

Thanks for this info, we only paid the balance late November, who knew this s**t was going to hit the preverbal fan Mad

It does appear that the guy we agreed to rent didn't opt for the full refund, again I accept that was his choice & didn't stop us booking...we really thought things were looking better for everyone!

To be honest I have no idea which way he will go, he may be lucky, relet the apt & refund.

But its reasonable to assume that he may relet, not refund & think happy days!

What is clear though is that VRBO are sitting firmly on the fence, the fence thats their platform, they make the rules, take their fee & stuff the customer.

My initial gripe being, I shouldn't have to incur the €50.00 cleaning bill nor the fee from VRBO @ €391.20 as an absolute minimum , regardless of whether I can recover the specific rental cost of the apt.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skitow wrote:
@Levi215, I don't run my place as a business, as long as rental income covers some of the expenses and taxes I am happy. In fact it was occupied until the ski lifts stopped in 2020. I refunded any bookings after that. After that I got a call from a previous renter asking if their daughter and partner could isolate there as the hotel they were working in had shut down thus losing their accomodation and they did not want to return to Paris. They stayed there for 3 months as I remember and sent me photographs from their daily walks around the deserted slopes etc ! Sort of like a daily dose of snow porn Laughing I gave them a very much reduced rate and it all worked out well, they left the place in perfect order.


Credit to you Toofy Grin

Whilst I acknowledge you don't run your apt as a business, you accept that after all it is your sole liability, not those who rent of you.

Therefore I applaud your actions in refunded those who had made reservations without the need for 'legal small print' within contracts.

My view has always been to do the right thing and as my dad taught me 40 years ago, treat people how you would like to be treated...this has always been my position and I stand by it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
eblunt wrote:
@michaelbury17, I would certainly expect the credit card company might come to your aid on this one.


TBF thats seems to be the most favourable option available, fingers crossed wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
psenior1 wrote:
In the UK my wife and I run a business, during the lockdowns we were effectively advised we had no option but to refund clients who's events couldn't go ahead due to the UK governments legal restrictions, even though we still had bills to pay etc etc, like many people in the same boat.

I appreciate this is a completely different situation & industry, but the way it was explained to us was that we were effectively charging a client (and therefor profiting) for a service the client wasn't legally able to use or take part in.

Imho understanding and compromise from both sides is the key to a fair outcome.


Great perspective bearing in mind the situation.

I haven't said I not prepared to take a hit, the only contact I've had is where the host has stated 'he will try & relet the apt.'

That in itself tells me where he is, I may very well be wrong... Shocked
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mr.Egg wrote:
michaelbury17 wrote:
zzz wrote:
@michaelbury17,
I would guess your cancelled holiday is a small(ish) % of your annual income. For the tour operators the ski season IS their annual income. They have massive costs.


What?

This is an Independent apartment, so not a TO.

So, I book in good faith, pay VRBO €3620 & the fRench Govt shut the border & thats it?

I am expected to suck it up!

The owner of the apt gets his cash, re-lets the apt or not either way, cash in the bank.... Confused


VRBO are not above the UK Law.
Get yourself some legal advice & start a court order for you monies.
Avbro would have 2 options.
1x settle out of court
2x fight it & set precedence.
For such a small amount, precedence if they lose would have a huge impact on their business model & across the whole aggregator sector.



Perhaps this could be a useful angle if I don't get anywhere with VRBO 'encouraging the host to refund' or indeed they refuse to refund their fees.

Ultimately all else falls & credit card company decline to do a charge back, I may just issue a claim in the county court
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@michaelbury17, your independent owner will not have seen a penny of the money you have paid. It is held by VRBO until 3 days after you arrive at your accommodation.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
Thing is, a lot of money is being lost by a lot of people at the moment (a few Chums making windfall profits but let's leave them aside....). The insurance industry only exists to make money; they won't insure risks which are highly likely to come to pass. Practically all of us have to expect to lose money in this situation and of all the people for whom I have sympathy, people like myself who can afford ski holidays are way down my list. Not at the bottom, but certainly some distance below those whose livelihoods depend on people who can afford ski holidays. They are not all fat cats. Many of them (certainly just about all the ones I'm familiar with in the French Alps, and it probably holds true in Austria too) are not as fat as people who can afford family ski holidays.

My Welsh aunts used often to say "chwarae teg" which (though I don't speak Welsh) I recognised in context as an expression of not just "fair play" but also a warm regard and consideration for those concerned.

Chwarae teg, Snowheads.


Well put PamW, I have no desire to screw over those affected by the French Govt closing the border.

We love France, the French we have holidayed there for the last 27 years & I want to continue to do so, I want to help their economy hence I am prepared to pay the price to visit the Alps.

All I want is fair play for all, comprise
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Just arrived in Kirchberg
To clarify they never asked for reason of travel though I’d printed off the form
They asked to see my test result but as you can’t uploaded the reason for travel form seems they aren’t bothered or asking
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
[quote="holidayloverxx"]@michaelbury17, yebbut it was clear well before you booked that most policies would not cover such things. I asked you earlier, maybe on another thread, what your insurance cover was when you booked but you didn't answer.

Correct, having reviewed the policy we are not covered under this scenario.

I based my decision on the advice given by Govt & yes I accept there was always a risk of things going pear shaped again, doesn't mean to say that it's right that independent renters & VRBO take the rental fees (incl cleaning & fees to VRBO) regardless, obviously thats only my opinion.

We were all set to go, euro tunnel booked (like you) which I shall postpone, together with hotels which we have cancelled, no cost.

Fortunately hadn't booked the car park, look all I am trying to do is to get on with my life...

copy post


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 19-12-21 20:08; edited 1 time in total
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holidayloverxx wrote:
@michaelbury17, yebbut it was clear well before you booked that most policies would not cover such things. I asked you earlier, maybe on another thread, what your insurance cover was when you booked but you didn't answer.

I've just moved my Jan 3rd eurotunnel to July, (cost £14). I cancelled my en route hotel FOC. When I booked my 10th Dec trip at the end of the summer I knew I wouldn't have cancellation cover for the current circumstances. I got a full refund on car hire and parking and wrote of the flight cost, which was sunk cost anyway.

I haven't mentioned accommodation in resort as I have my own place.

I booked for the birthday bash, again knowing I had no insurance cover if it goes tits up.

I really can't understand why anyone would have booked at trip in April, during lockdown, without knowing they were taking a risk


Answering others, not responding to me...maybe I'm on ignore for stating the bleedin' obvious
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hells Bells wrote:
@michaelbury17, your independent owner will not have seen a penny of the money you have paid. It is held by VRBO until 3 days after you arrive at your accommodation.


Thanks for this info, I am aware that this is the protocol. However it is the owners choice on whether they issue a refund, if they agree to, VRBO will forfeit their fees.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
holidayloverxx wrote:
[qey were taking a risk


Answering others, not responding to me...maybe I'm on ignore for stating the bleedin' obvious[/quote]

Apologies, obviously this was not intentional , yiou will note that our response crossed over, enjoy your evening Toofy Grin
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@michaelbury17, I can't see your response, but of course you aren't obliged to respond.
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@michaelbury17, FWIW I think you are absolutely right about seeking a refund of the cleaning fee.
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[quote="michaelbury17"]
holidayloverxx wrote:
@michaelbury17, yebbut it was clear well before you booked that most policies would not cover such things. I asked you earlier, maybe on another thread, what your insurance cover was when you booked but you didn't answer.

Correct, having reviewed the policy we are not covered under this scenario.

I based my decision on the advice given by Govt & yes I accept there was always a risk of things going pear shaped again, doesn't mean to say that it's right that independent renters & VRBO take the rental fees (incl cleaning & fees to VRBO) regardless, obviously thats only my opinion.

We were all set to go, euro tunnel booked (like you) which I shall postpone, together with hotels which we have cancelled, no cost.

Fortunately hadn't booked the car park, look all I am trying to do is to get on with my life...

copy post


Copy post holidayloverxx
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
holidayloverxx wrote:
@michaelbury17, FWIW I think you are absolutely right about seeking a refund of the cleaning fee.


Aye, when I looked at this I thought anyone would be hard pressed to insist that I pay for cleaning an empty apartment Blush Blush
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
[quote="michaelbury17"]
michaelbury17 wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
@michaelbury17, yebbut it was clear well before you booked that most policies would not cover such things. I asked you earlier, maybe on another thread, what your insurance cover was when you booked but you didn't answer.

Correct, having reviewed the policy we are not covered under this scenario.

I based my decision on the advice given by Govt & yes I accept there was always a risk of things going pear shaped again, doesn't mean to say that it's right that independent renters & VRBO take the rental fees (incl cleaning & fees to VRBO) regardless, obviously thats only my opinion.

We were all set to go, euro tunnel booked (like you) which I shall postpone, together with hotels which we have cancelled, no cost.

Fortunately hadn't booked the car park, look all I am trying to do is to get on with my life...

copy post


Copy post holidayloverxx


Thank you..I don't think you've mastered quoting to reply wink
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@michaelbury17,

[quote="skitow"]@michaelbury17, @Skimum1, I had our place with VRBO until the subscription ran out early this year, 2021, and I did not renew for various reasons. I seem to remember stuff coming through about covid related refunds and you had the choice to allow covid related refunds or not.

Thanks for this info, we only paid the balance late November, who knew this s**t was going to hit the preverbal fan Mad

It does appear that the guy we agreed to rent didn't opt for the full refund, again I accept that was his choice & didn't stop us booking...we really thought things were looking better for everyone!

To be honest I have no idea which way he will go, he may be lucky, relet the apt & refund.

But its reasonable to assume that he may relet, not refund & think happy days!

What is clear though is that VRBO are sitting firmly on the fence, the fence thats their platform, they make the rules, take their fee & stuff the customer.

My initial gripe being, I shouldn't have to incur the €50.00 cleaning bill nor the fee from VRBO @ €391.20 as an absolute minimum , regardless of whether I can recover the specific rental cost of the apt."

@michaelbury17, Got no problem with any of that except "But its reasonable to assume that he may relet, not refund & think happy days!" I think that's an unfair assumption to make. It's possible I agree and I guess you could get someone else to check on the availability nearer the time to see if he has done that. To be fair to him actually changing the availability on the crazy planner that VRBO use I found a hard enough task if you wanted to do something out of the ordinary. Is it showing as available now ?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
22 dropout wrote:


This happened to a young relative of mine last week - on a school ski trip, a handful tested negative 2 days before the end and they are now quarantined in France very expensively and missing Christmas as a result.


Tested negative? No need to quarantine! Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Bergmeister, let's just imagine it's a typo and he meant positive
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well, we have an apartment booked through VRBO for later in the season. We can get a 100% refund up until 4 weeks before departure.

Some owners who rent through VRBO will give a refund, others won't
The devil is in the detail...
You booked your apartment without a refund policy - you pay your money, you take your chance.....
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@michaelbury17, @holidayloverxx, @skitow, @tele,

This thread is called "France Updates Travel Restrictions".
So why the complete rubbish about rentals, deposits and general dross about VRBO???
Please start your own rental topic.
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@colinstone, I don't think it's rubbish for the people affected, but I agree it could do with its own thread.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Hurtle, Maybe @colinstone, ought have a look here https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=157593 Laughing
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@colinstone, I have no further comment to make. As you were
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@skitow, So?? I haven't a clue what that topic is about. More waffle and dross. On this topic I expect to read about the subject, not the arcane ins and outs of rental agreements.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
jabuzzard wrote:
elefantfresh wrote:
Looking for alternatives, would Scotland be an option? I know its not "the alps" but at least its something?


You don't want to go skiing in Scotland it's really terrible Toofy Grin

Being more serious if you are close enough to go for the day it is an option. Booking anything in advance is pot luck IMHO and not something I would contemplate. Then again I can reach all the resorts for a days skiing. There was some skiing last weekend

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXTHmYhKtDq/?utm_medium=share_sheet

But the snow has gone now Sad


Ahem - I think you’ll find that as long as it’s not raining, blowing a gale or a weekend day (gets way too busy) - you can have a great day especially if it’s just snowed and you get a midweek sunny day. There is I’m sure one day a season it’s like that Shocked snowHead
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@colinstone, Complain to a Mod then. Try @Hells Bells, she's posted a few times about rental agreements in this thread.
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Meanwhile, back on, sort of, topic

I'm keeing an eye / ear on what weathercam has to update on this alleged 5th Jan decision day...

We're a group of 9 travelling, supposedly, independently on 15th, Looked at moving the dates, but: our village is fully booked through March April, so until people start cancelling then, we're a bit stuffed. (And if they do start cancelling those, then there will be a reason...)

Do I cancel the trains now (when Eurostar and SNCF are still running) or wait until/if France relents. Do I cancel the bookings now, or wait until... Ah sod it. Enjoy Christmas, and put the decision off: Que sera sera.
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