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Taking teenagers skiing this winter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
snowhound wrote:
As the father of teenagers, I've just sent a polite email rant to my Conservative MP who is quite a big 'up and coming' name about both the 1 v 2 jab issue and the failure of the NHS to provide proof of vaccination/infection status to under 18s.
If I get a worthwhile reply, will post it.
It is completely inequitable that my parents in their 80s can now travel freely, yet my daughters (who have been hammered by restrictions to ostensibly 'save granny') cannot.


I have emailed my local MP (Olivia Blake) with the same requests...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
sheffskibod wrote:
snowhound wrote:
As the father of teenagers, I've just sent a polite email rant to my Conservative MP who is quite a big 'up and coming' name about both the 1 v 2 jab issue and the failure of the NHS to provide proof of vaccination/infection status to under 18s.
If I get a worthwhile reply, will post it.
It is completely inequitable that my parents in their 80s can now travel freely, yet my daughters (who have been hammered by restrictions to ostensibly 'save granny') cannot.


I have emailed my local MP (Olivia Blake) with the same requests...


Off to do the same!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Done the same, also a Conservative MP.

I'm not expecting much of a response. My wife (a LD cllr) has jousted with him quite a bit over the last couple of years. Laughing
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Right I've sent mine off. Seems I had quite the bee in my bonnet when I started writing. (On top of the skiing issue, we are a mixed UK/ EU family and this makes seeing our relatives much more tricky).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Well that was quick!! I got an email within about a minute from Raab's constituency manager and thought you might like to see it (positive noises I thought):


Dear .,



Thank you for your message – you may be interested to know that Dominic has already written to the Health Secretary on this issue – we will be in touch as soon as we have heard back.



With best wishes,



Ian Riley

Senior Caseworker to the Rt. Hon. Dominic Raab

Member of Parliament for Esher and Walton
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@Soozm, blimey, that was quick! Was it just about the second jab or did you mention about getting records for u16s too? I.e. if they have recovered from covid?

I'm not expecting a quick response. My MP likes to reply to email through the post. I'm not joking.
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It was quick - I suspect a lot of skiiers and half term holidayers here in leafy Surrey (I'm not from here so I like to make fun) and he's probably tired of the letters and emails! Also the reply was from his office, and the man who answered it has a reputation for being really helpful.

The main point was about the jab but I also talked about the NHS app so hopefully there's a note of that - if there's any sort of data collection that happens. I have always thought it quite likely that there's a boringly technical process issue to do with recording the jabs on the app that is a major part of the delay and therefore the half-arsed vaccine programme the teenagers have.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've written to my Conservative MP as well. I wrote that the vaccination policy and not having the Covid Pass was discriminatory against teenagers as they didn't have the same rights as the adult population.
Not sure what I will get back but if it starts to cause some noise it will help.
I am not expecting much before our Christmas trip, but we have France booked for Easter and Holland in June, both moved from this year. Holland - we can't even get in with a teenager so at least France is only an inconvenience of testing.
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My MP is Rishi! I'll write to him tomorrow!!
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always29 wrote:
Trauma of son#1 being age 12+11 days when we are scheduled to go to Italy and not being able to get a green pass for him as we won't be able to meet the 14 days since vaccine rule may well no longer be a trauma - he's obligingly gone and got covid so squarely recovery in 90 days period I read about. Now how to get a recovered certificate for him....

Not so obligingly he's passed it his younger brother, his dad, probably me but am waiting for PCR result, his aunt, a 2nd cousin and probably his Abuela at a family event last weekend. Germ ridden oik!


My gp will write us a covid recovery certificate for £25 but it won’t have the magic qr code we need for the Italian green pass. Covid pass people were next to useless. Italy changed the rules a week after I booked requiring all over 12 to have the green pass. Really worried about my 13 year old daughter not being able to get a lift pass. Contemplating a swap to Andorra.
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At least for the Dolomites, she’ll need to qualify for a green pass, but can do that by a LFT every two days - PITA I know, but hopefully not a show stopper for you.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sheffskibod wrote:
snowhound wrote:
As the father of teenagers, I've just sent a polite email rant to my Conservative MP who is quite a big 'up and coming' name about both the 1 v 2 jab issue and the failure of the NHS to provide proof of vaccination/infection status to under 18s.
If I get a worthwhile reply, will post it.
It is completely inequitable that my parents in their 80s can now travel freely, yet my daughters (who have been hammered by restrictions to ostensibly 'save granny') cannot.


I have emailed my local MP (Olivia Blake) with the same requests...


Is anyone willing to post a template letter. I’ll happily bombard everyone and anyone as my head is melting with it all. Due to travel to Italy for Christmas ski but considering a swap to Andorra (no green pass required)
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This is what I wrote.
I don't know if you are aware of the issue related to younger teenagers, Covid Vaccination, the NHS Covid Pass and travel abroad.

As you know the UK Government has decided to only vaccination 12-17 year olds with one dose, which is contrary to the majority of other countries. By implementing this policy, we are severely restricting the ability of our teenagers to be able to travel outside of the UK. For example, they are currently unable to enter Germany, Holland, Malta and Canada, among others.

Other European countries that are using a Vaccination Passport scheme are applying this to teenagers 12 and above so will have to carry out Covid tests every 48-72 hours.

By not allowing teenagers to have two doses of the vaccination we are refusing them the right to be able to travel freely as adults can.

The other issue is the inability for a teenager under 16 to be able to have a Covid Pass. Some countries are allowing travel with one vaccination or with proof of a previous Covid infection. However, the Government will not release information for under 16s so they cannot have access to their own medical records.

Both of these policies are discriminatory to teenagers as they are unable to travel freely in the same way as the adult population. Teenagers have had to suffer in the last 18 months in order to protect our older and more fragile population. However, it does not seem fair that their grand-parents can travel where ever they wish, but their teenage grandchildren are unable to accompany them.

I accept that there is no medical reason to give a second vaccination, but for travel it should be optional to have a second dose. We can obtain other vaccinations for travel so this should also apply to the Covid 19 vaccination.

However, the inability to get the Covid Pass for Under-16s is purely a policy decision and should be reviewed again.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Awesome thank you. If acceptable with you can I use and I’ll bombard my mp’s too (I live on the border and have two mp’s who think I am with them). Both helped my cause when it came to the covid grants.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yes happy for you to use Smile
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thank you. I’ve been going round and round in circles trying to get a certificate of recovery, which would work In Italy if shown as the nhs covid pass with the magic qr code. My daughter has one jab and has also recovered from covid in sep. For me it’s the lack of access to the nhs app and the covid travel passes. What is the problem in letting any child (with parental consent ) access their own app. As you say if they are willing and mature enough to have the jab then at least treat them with the same respect and let them have the app.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Here's mine.

I write concerning the additional travel restrictions placed on UK teenagers, given the different vaccination requirements of many other countries, particularly those in the EU which are now mandating vaccine certification involving double vaccination, to those in the UK.
The current situation for families wanting to take teenage children overseas is a complete mess. Even with one vaccination, they do not count as fully vaccinated in most other Western countries and so have to undergo additional restrictions. This is both to enter in terms of requiring pre-departure PCR/LFD testing, and also once in the country as they do not qualify for any ‘health pass’ because they currently have only the option of a single vaccination. I cannot see the logic of pretty much every developed country offering all 12+ the option of a double vaccination, yet the UK is not. Are they ‘following’ a different science to the UK?
And then there is the problem of the UK NHS App which will not provide proof of vaccination or previous infection to anyone under 18-this is a complete farce given the records are there but the NHS will not release them in order to prove their status. This again means UK teenagers need to undergo regular testing whilst in an overseas country in order to access any indoor facilities.
This is a school generation who have already been hit hardest by Covid restrictions, despite being barely affected by the virus itself. And now that travel is being opened up, their opportunities are again being restricted by the UK Government’s different vaccination policy to other countries. It also adds a not inconsiderable cost to their parents in order to have a family holiday. That my parents in their 80s can now travel pretty much freely, but my teenage children cannot is completely inequitable. I am not requesting there should be a compulsory double vaccination mandate within the UK, but the option for those parents who wish to take advantage of it should be available, and the NHS should be able to provide proof of it afterwards as it can to adults.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thank you. I feel totally bamboozled by the whole situation. All the Gov need to to is provide access to the under 18’s via their NHS app or ours. How hard is it to generate a qr code to prove certificate of recovery for a covid pass. I have all the other paperwork but it won’t be recognised.

I’ll get writing to Tim Farron tomorrow

Thanks again
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Just to clarify (as you know how weaselly politicians are) but it’s access to under *16*s. Those 16 and over can access their Covid passes.
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But 16 and most 17 ur olds are not currently being given/offered a 2’nd dose.
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But 16 and most 17 ur olds are not currently being given/offered a 2’nd dose.
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Pejoli wrote:
Just to clarify (as you know how weaselly politicians are) but it’s access to under *16*s. Those 16 and over can access their Covid passes.


Yes, but the covid pass is useless since it only shows the one vaccination!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
To clarify - this is applying to Switzerland in my case.
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Sorry yes I did know this. In fact my daughter tried to log on her app and it said she must be 13 (maybe change is afoot)! I’ll ensure I put 16 to be sure. The real issue is lack of access to covid passes. I have my daughter linked to my nhs app and it states she’s had vaccine but no access to covid pass.

Thanks
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A certificate of recovery with qr code would swing it for Italy. Others on this forum say one jab gets a blue tick for Italy which would also swing it. Beginning to regret booking now.
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I have emailed my MP (Laura Trott, Sevenoaks)
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This is what ai wrote…

Dear Robert,

I trust you are keeping safe and well.

As my MP I would like to bring to your attention (and ask for your assistance with) a problem that myself and several hundreds of thousands of other parents of teenagers are facing.

As you are no doubt aware, the majority of countries outside of the UK have implemented a form of vaccine passport. I am in favour of some sort of temporary vaccine passport, but it has thrown up an issue which is incompatible with current UK government policy.

Taking the example of France in particular (as this is where I usually go on holiday), they have introduced a Pass Sanitaire. To be eligible for the pass sanitaire, you either need to be fully vaccinated, have recovered from covid in the past 6 months, or undertake prohibitively expensive covid testing every 48 hours, to access even the most basic of amenities.

Current government policy is that 12-15 year olds will only be given one dose of the vaccine, and remain not fully vaccinated. 16 - 18 year olds have been offered one dose, with the timing of the second dose yet to be decided, and thus leaving them in limbo. I hope that this position will be remedied swiftly so that not only are they protected from the virus, but they will be able to enjoy the freedoms that fully vaccinated adults can enjoy.

Furthermore, if a child under the age of 16 has contracted and recovered from Covid (as my 13 year old boy has done in the last few weeks), they should be eligible for the pass sanitaire, however it is currently against government/NHS policy to allow under 16s access to their covid data, despite them legally being allowed access to their NHS record (via the NHS app) from the age of 13.

This leaves them in the completely inequitable position that my mother (in her late 70s) can now travel freely, yet my children (who have been hammered by restrictions to ostensibly 'save granny') cannot.

I would be grateful if these issues could be looked into, and look forward to any update you may be able to give with any changes in their regard.

Yours sincerely
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Some good letters here.

As an ex Cabinet Office civil servant, here’s the likely process should the MPs choose to escalate the issue, and assuming it gets time in Cabinet.

1. U.K. Chief Medical Officer (Chris Whitty) contacts his counterparts in CH, FR, AUT etc and asks for dialogue.

2. Foreign CMOs respond, as they always welcome dialogue, and Whitty is very well respected.

3. U.K. CMO explains the issue with single-vaxxed teenagers.

4. Foreign CMOs ask why the UK authorities have authorised a single jab for teenagers, when all the testing and approval processes for Moderna, Pfizer and AstraZeneca require 2 jabs.

5. UK CMO makes the case (as well as he can). Might be a difficult conversation.

6. If the foreign CMOs are convinced, they'll take the issue to their political masters, who will evaluate it on political grounds. For example, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Swiss go along with it, as they’re so reliant on tourism. The Italians already have.

In normal times this might take a couple of years.

A better and far quicker solution would be to:

(a) give the teenagers another jab, should they wish it,
(b) give them access to their Covid records via the NHS app.

Problem solved, with no reliance on diplomacy. The U.K. can solve this problem on its own.

So if you are lobbying your MP (as you should be), don't go for international diplomacy (which takes ages and usually achieves little), but encourage your representative to solve the problem internally by getting teenagers double-jabbed and providing access to Covid records in the NHS app for everyone, regardless of age.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks for all the letter examples - I will use them as a basis for our circs to write to our MP later, not as if I can do much else this evening as we're all in isolation anyway!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Got this back from mine, not holding my breath:

Thank you for your email of 2nd November 2021, regarding proof of vaccination for under 18’s. Your enquiry has been forwarded to the Department of Health & Social Care, as your enquiry falls within its area of responsibility. The Department of Health & Social Care has a target time to reply to 20 working days.

Additional pressure on all civil servants because of the coronavirus pandemic means enquiries can often take longer, however.

I have asked my caseworker [XXX XXX] to oversee your enquiry and carry out any necessary follow-up work. [XXX] will contact you if we need any further information.

I will contact you again when I hear back from the Department of Health & Social Care.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Did better than me. I got an automated saying my MP has 14 days to respond. Add that to 20 days if he does the same, then that could be 34 days before I hear anything!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think people need to request an optional second jab on demand. Brits can comply with travel requirements if they choose but NHS doesn’t have to pay for an extra million jabs for teenagers who won’t need them for going abroad.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I tried that via NHS booking platform but wouldn't let us book another appointment. My daughter went to local vaccination centre for jab 1, and they haven't rolled out at her school yet, so maybe we could sneak another one when they eventually turn up there (no dates yet). Doesn't solve the Covid pass issue though!
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@Susang73, the problem with trying to "sneak" another jab in, is that you are relying on at least one of the jabs not being properly recorded. You'll see the challenges that has caused a parent on another thread. And the scale of kicking and screaming (threats to write to MP, file formal complaints, take up large quantities of senior local GPs time etc.) suggested by some on here as a "solution" to that admin problem.

I'm at least as frustrated as most other parents on here, although in my case it's less about the travel and more about the medical data which is increasingly clearly showing that two jabs provide materially better protection than one, and that the "vaccine risks" are lower than even the very low levels originally assumed by JCVI et al.

I'd suggest that focussing the argument on second jabs for protection might be more effective than focussing it on second jabs for ease of travel. The route I will be taking is asking my MP why the JCVI meets so infrequently, when the data evolves so fast. Its original decision was based on data that has been shown to be potentially erroneous, and there is also much more recent data now available. Part of the reason we have such a problem now is that JCVI was too slow to act before schools returned post summer, and it is compounding that error by not getting second jabs into teenagers in advance of winter.
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Susang73 wrote:
I tried that via NHS booking platform but wouldn't let us book another appointment. My daughter went to local vaccination centre for jab 1, and they haven't rolled out at her school yet, so maybe we could sneak another one when they eventually turn up there (no dates yet). Doesn't solve the Covid pass issue though!

Sorry, I meant it should be formally allowed, thus systems altered accordingly.
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Encouraging - suggestion that 16-17 yr old will be offered 2nd jabs very shortly, as the JCVI catches up with the evidence showing that the risk of adverse side effects is lower than thought.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-vaccine-children-doses-latest-b1950102.html
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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@snowdave, excellent news.

My 16 year old twin daughters work in a pub part time (around their A levels) so they're keen to get their second jab. That will only leave my son as the tricky one. If they allow access to the NHS covid data, then I'll be all gravy.
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Not teenager specific, but just read a news article suggesting that third jabs don't show up on the NHS covid pass, and therefore a potential problem for anyone travelling to a destination that has a time limit since second short (Austria is cited - only considered fully vaxxed if your second dose was under 360 days ago). People who were vaccinated right at the start of the roll out could be reaching this time limit in early in the New Year.
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Gazzza wrote:
Not teenager specific, but just read a news article suggesting that third jabs don't show up on the NHS covid pass, and therefore a potential problem for anyone travelling to a destination that has a time limit since second short (Austria is cited - only considered fully vaxxed if your second dose was under 360 days ago). People who were vaccinated right at the start of the roll out could be reaching this time limit in early in the New Year.
Damn, you are right. I just checked and my third jab from 2 weeks ago is still not on the app....grrrr, so I will be 'out' by 4 Dec...where do I start? Anyone any ideas? It took sooo long to get my third jab as mine was a third primary dose, not the booster.
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