 Poster: A snowHead
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Annoyed but in a way relieved. Can now plan and look forward to Plan B holiday rather than stressing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Plan? How if the rules change every 20 minutes?
It's utter nonsense.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gilly76 wrote: |
| Something to do with the South African variant..... |
Which is not an unreasonable position, but the circulation of the Beta variant (South Africa) in France was known about last week. So what made them say no quarantine in last week's announcement, but caused them to change policy today? Madness. I was visiting a friend last week when the decision was made about no quarantine when returning from France. On the basis of that decision her family booked a large villa in France, ferry crossings for three cars, travel plans from Paris for one member of the family and her partner, kennel accommodation for the family pet, etc. Thousands of pounds, much of which I suspect is now threatened, not least for my friend's brother who will not be able to quarantine when he returns from holiday as he works at Oxford University developing vaccines and three or four weeks out of his lab would not be acceptable.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 16-07-21 21:25; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Very unhappy and angry
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well that’s a pile of poo.
FFS, I’m going to have to think of a plan B.
At least I hadn’t forked out for tests yet.
This was going to be the first year in over a decade that I haven’t been to France twice. Now I won’t even get there once 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's Friday evening, so no ministers available to explain the decision, according to Sky News a moment ago. I'm sure they'll all enjoy their weekend.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 17-07-21 9:37; edited 1 time in total
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@Timmycb5, we left France in March 2020, and haven't been back since. The small window last summer when we could maybe have travelled was not possible for us.
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Drove down l'Autoroute du Soleil tonight, absolutely hoaching with Belgians and Dutch. Did not see a single UK car, which is very unusual at this time of year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It seems that France remains on the Amber list, but it has its own travel rules as of next Monday unlike other Amber countries. Suggestions for what colour this should be known as? Is Amber with Tricolour stripes too fussy? Amber background with the picture of a shopping trolley? Amber background with a couple of headless chickens running around?
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@Hells Bells, we were bloody lucky last year. Skiing in Feb, then the Dordogne in August. Ended up staying 3 weeks when they brought in quarantine and took advantage of an almost empty holiday complex.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BA cancelled the LHR - Geneva leg of my flight today for a trip to Chamonix, so I was able to cancel the whole trip for a refund.
Rebooked with Swiss directly from Dublin but have had to give up a day of the planned trip.
Will be interesting to see if NI follows England on the France quarantining, if not, it could have been a bit of luck getting that flight cancelled.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having worked for many years in the Middle East, it seems to me that this is a typical "Arabic compromise" ruling. The UK Gov't really want to put France on the Red list immediately but know that that would cause uproar so they keep it at Amber but with a compromise quarantine arrangement. i.e. At home for 10 days rather than in a Gov't mandated facility at £1,750.
Personally, I'm ok with this; if France had gone Red I'd be back in my car less than 24 hours after I got on a ferry to get here. I can live with staying at home for 10 days, paying through the nose to be in a crappy Gov't approved hotel is a completely different matter.
My guess would be that in 2-3 weeks the requirements will be updated again according to your vaccination status and the current French Beta levels. It could be better or worse but it's a pandemic - anyone expecting a consistent long term ruling and being able to "plan" is naive.
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Just noticed that tonight's announcement applies to arrivals from France to England. I'd guess that Wales, Scotland and NI will follow suite? Or does anyone think there is the possibility of a different policy across different parts of the UK?
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You know it makes sense.
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@rob@rar, bbc now days England and Wales
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@rob@rar, who knows. It's much easier to 2nd guess competant people
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Poster: A snowHead
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A Scottish government spokesperson said ministers were "considering the best approach" for arrivals from France "as we look to adopt a four nation approach on international travel, where possible".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Love the consistency on here; when Westminster govt dithered about bringing in restrictions on arrivals from India there was outcry about how Boris was endangering us all just so he could go on his trade mission. Now that action has been taken over a rise in a more vaccine-resistant strain on our doorstep the response is "Why are they running my holiday? Can't they overrule the scientific advice?"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, it's f-d up any potential holiday I might have had to the house in France that I haven't been to for 18 months (assuming it's still there) but that's the kind of s--t that happens in a pandemic that most people said had to be dealt with with travel bans etc
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@ben wright, I’m not annoyed that they have said you have to quarantine on return from France. I’m seething that they announced you WOULDN’T last week, only to change it this week when there has been no significant change in circumstances.”
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ben wright wrote: |
| Love the consistency on here; when Westminster govt dithered about bringing in restrictions on arrivals from India there was outcry about how Boris was endangering us all just so he could go on his trade mission. Now that action has been taken over a rise in a more vaccine-resistant strain on our doorstep the response is "Why are they running my holiday? Can't they overrule the scientific advice?" |
Think you’re missing the point. It’s not that today they have said the risk from returning travellers is so great they must quarantine; it’s that they said one week ago that no such quarantine would be necessary. On the strength of that decision a number of people will have confirmed travel plans, incurring expense that might not be recoverable. It’s not today’s decision which is the problem, it is the complete change of policy which is the problem.
I can’t see what is known today that was not known last week. I don’t think there has been a change in the trend of infection and transmission here in the UK or in France. So why the change in policy?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But there probably has been a change. In most African and Middle East countries the Beta variation has been significantly decreasing in prevalence in the past few months/weeks. But in France it has been persistent or growing, so that by now France is second only to Botswana in the proportion of cases with that variant.
As @Raceplate said above, the logical step would be for France to go on the Red list. But I suspect the government doesn't have the quarantine hotel capacity needed for the number of people currently in, or likely to travel back via, France.
There will continue to be changes, often seemingly random, from week to week until the virus is largely suppressed to minimal levels globally.
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I don't listen to much of what Boris Johnson says and believe little of what I do hear but I can recall that fairly recently he warned that people shouldn't expect overseas summer holidays to be hassle-free and that rules were going to be subject to change.
It could be the case that this change is the result of an administrative error that meant they forgot to announce it previously or maybe the govt just wants to mess up people's holiday plans or (unlikely to be many people's choice) maybe the advice they're acting on has changed.
I'm not sure I buy into the idea of Westminster bringing this in before France does it to us - couldn't it be better spun if France imposed restrictions first and Boris could waffle on about "Post-Brexit spite, world-beating vaccine roll-out blah blah blah"?
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This decision baffles me, I live in France and haven't seen a thing in the French press about beta, so checked the data:
Mainland France: 4.5% cases are beta.
Reunion Island: 100% cases are beta.
Does the UK GOVT not have a map?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Woke up to find the Gov.uk email in my inbox. It makes no sense - I was far more concerned that France would put us on Red list that this!
We were scheduled to go on the 9th August. The cancellation policy was amazing allowing full refund upto 4th but this latest change is to close and I have now cancelled the accommodation and car hire. Just flights left to cancel or reschedule. They have already been disrupted so I May look to use them next season but I already have half term flights rescheduled and Easter is out completely due to eldest sitting GCSEs next year. I don’t want to go at Christmas due to losing last year’s Christmas, new year is possible if we do Mon - Mon but lots of accommodation won’t take that… May just request the refund
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We came over a week ago. It’s a big pain but I guess it comes with the territory. Beats going on the red list.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Ghanny wrote: |
| We came over a week ago. It’s a big pain but I guess it comes with the territory. Beats going on the red list. |
Yep - we were prepared to isolate on return if rules changed while we were out there (carefully picked dates to ensure absolutely no impact on kids going to school in September), made sure I didn’t book kids any summer activities for after it either. However not prepared to travel out knowing those rules… weird I know!
I hope you have a great time
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As someone said earlier, I’m sure the U.K. government would have put France on the red list if they had the facilities to house the in-forced quarantine.
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Out of curiosity since parents are now fined for taking their children out of school to go on holiday are they also fined for quarentining them on their return?
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You know it makes sense.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Out of curiosity since parents are now fined for taking their children out of school to go on holiday are they also fined for quarentining them on their return? |
I am sure I saw some media attention on this a while ago and I believe the message is they will be…. Either way I wasn’t going to risk it as eldest is sitting GCSEs next year and had lost horrific amounts of shocking already, and youngest is starting secondary school having had her induction day cancelled this term.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Speculation from Sky's Sam Coates that the government were considering today whether France might need to be added to the UK's red list. This comes just four days after announcing that UK residents returning from France would not need to quarantine at all. Seems like they are staggering from decision to decision, with all the control of an errant shopping trolley as Cummings might say. |
It's quite astonishingly crap. No science behind this at all, although that's hardly surprising.
Charlatans and idiots, the lot of them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="rob@rar"]
| ben wright wrote: |
Think you’re missing the point. It’s not that today they have said the risk from returning travellers is so great they must quarantine; it’s that they said one week ago that no such quarantine would be necessary. [b] On the strength of that decision a number of people will have confirmed travel plans, incurring expense that might not be recoverable. [/]It’s not today’s decision which is the problem, it is the complete change of policy which is the problem.
I can’t see what is known today that was not known last week. I don’t think there has been a change in the trend of infection and transmission here in the UK or in France. So why the change in policy? |
That’s exactly my position. My accommodation is accommodation is refundable, but I held off booking my Eurotunnel tickets until the announcement last week. They’re not refundable, but I MIGHT be able to change them for little cost.
I knew it was always a gamble booking abroad for the summer and I was happy with that. The thing that has annoyed me the most is the flip flopping.
At least I hadn’t forked out the best part of a grand on all the testing for the family yet.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ecureuil wrote: |
| But there probably has been a change. In most African and Middle East countries the Beta variation has been significantly decreasing in prevalence in the past few months/weeks. But in France it has been persistent or growing, so that by now France is second only to Botswana in the proportion of cases with that variant. |
I agree that the Beta variant is another risk to consider, but what information has the UK learned about this variant in France in the last week or so that has made them change this policy? What do they know now that they didn't know a week ago when they decided that UK residents returning from France didn't need to quarantine at home? What do they know now that can't be mitigated with the requirement to do daily lateral flow tests tests when you return from France as a way of identifying some possible infections?
According to GISAid, which tracks different Covid variants, there have been 86 confirmed cases of Beta in France in the last four weeks, with overall prevalence of Beta estimated at less than 3.4% of the case numbers. Delta is growing fast, as it did here over the last couple of months, but Beta not so much. I can't see any evidence of a sudden change in trend for that variant.
GISAid hCov19 Variants
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 17-07-21 8:22; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| @ben wright, I’m not annoyed that they have said you have to quarantine on return from France. I’m seething that they announced you WOULDN’T last week, only to change it this week when there has been no significant change in circumstances.” |
Exactly this point. What has changed?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The latest news is devastating. I went through the Tunnel on Tuesday morning and drove down to Flaine. Although the weather in the last few days has been awful the news last night was very disappointing. I haven't got a return trip booked at the moment so my plans are flexible. However, I can't get back to England by 4am Monday morning so I'm stuck with the prospect of having to quarantine for 10 days when I do return. It would be tempting to spend the whole of the summer out here but I have other things booked to do in the UK next month. The cost of testing both before I arrive back and after I get back is approaching £200 and the inconvenience is considerable. HMG blames the beta variant but the Delta variant is still the most prevalent strain in France. France's infection rate is well below that of the UK (although the extent of testing may account for some of this) so why has HMG taken this decision? I thought things were settling down and that HMG was acknowledging the fact that the virus is going to be around for a long time yet, as reflected in so-called Freedom Day on Monday. What is the point in having a very successful vaccination programme if perverse restrictions are later introduced that, to my way of thinking, are completely unjustified by the statistics?
End of rant! There is a beautiful blue sky today so time to go for a walk in the mountains - my answer to self-isolation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Timmycb5, of course you will be able to move your Eurotunnel tickets, you can move them to a date one year from when you made the booking.
I hadn't booked anything for our trip, as until last week we were going to have to quarantine on our return. As key workers that wasn't practical or possible. It is announcing they were changing the rules from Monday, and seemingly changing their minds again without good reason that is the issue.
Where I do need some consistency is for travelling with our dogs. Post-Brexit travel arrangements for them mean their passports are invalid and they need a certificate signed by a vet in advance of travel. As it is only valid for 10 days before entering France, it makes things difficult to organise if rules suddenly change.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The beta virus has increased as a proprotion from 5.3% to 9.4% in mainland France in the latest sequencing (#flash11 results) on the 15th July. Beta is somewhat vaccine resistant according to the French govt.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 17-07-21 10:23; edited 1 time in total
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FFS, the family test kits have just turned up this morning... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well if you call introducing passports to move around "not worried" ? All the coastal resorts have very high infection rates , of all variants, with risk of new lockdowns in those areas.
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@davidof, I don't think the current restrictions / passports are directly related to the "beat" variant, are they? Seem much more as levers to stimulate vaccinations, no?
Real world data from Qatar suggests vaccines 100% effective vs all variants at preventing severe or worse disease. So ... (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2104974)
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FAQ
