 Poster: A snowHead
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Oh nice. You don't need to return the lateral flow to the lab. That's good. Pretty well priced too!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@snowdave, Not entirely useless, just mostly useless.
The risk of me being both infected and infectious is indeed vastly reduced. (CDC thinking ~99.99% effective vs disease*)
Whereas a PCR test is a point of time sample of whether I have viral RA particles at the back of my nasal passage. => if I have been in contact with an infected and infectious individual I still run a real risk of a positive test, no?
I just kind of feel that as we know that vaccines work, we should let them get on with doing their work. Therefore surely the default position from a +ve PCR from a fully vaccinated individual is that it's a false positive...
And what really does offend is that my PCR tests (of which I'll confidently be having one on Saturday to nip down au Sud) here in France (as I think the rest of Europe) are free ...
Actually what truly offends is that the only check is at the gate, and even then any random grubby piece of paper with "negative" visible somewhere on it gets accepted in the Speedy Boarding scrum ... quite risible.
* not terribly recent data, presumably updates? https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/cdc-reports-promising-news-about-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@under a new name, I agree the endgame should be that vaccinations are enough, and the marginal gain at present from testing as well is tiny, but I think that the move from a "testing-led" to "vaccination-led" environment isn't perfectly smooth, and having a bit of overlap isn't a totally pointless move.
Even if the testing process currently provides minimal incremental information, it means that if we do get a level of vaccine escape (or when we get another variant and we aren't confident about potential vaccine escape) having the testing process in parallel makes some sense.
The fact that 8 fully-vaccinated members of whichever fully-vaccinated US sports team it was, were all simultaneously infected, suggests that vaccinated people can be a source, even if they are a very minor reservoir.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| And what really does offend is that my PCR tests (of which I'll confidently be having one on Saturday to nip down au Sud) here in France (as I think the rest of Europe) are free ... |
This is the bit I've never understood. Asking travellers to undertake Covid tests is a Public Good. Given that we are not using a large fraction of the capacity for daily tests that NHS Test & Trace has built-up over the last year, surely it would make sense to remove the financial (and practical) barriers to asking travellers to take these tests, as the whole point of such tests is to protect the public?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snowdave, my point is I suppose 2-fold. I don't really object to a meaningless test, I do object really quite strongly to having to pay (say) a rather nice lunch equivalent cost for it. I think the last number I saw for the UK was £188 for the current two de-quarantine tests.
And I've just had a look at the numbers again.
Latest PHE numbers https://t.co/o1r7exg02E?amp=1 suggest breakthrough infection at 0.1% after 2nd dose (not sure how long after 2nd dose) whereas,
PHE suggested a PCR false +ve rate of 1.16% (95% CI 1.09 - 1.23%) (courtesy of https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.06.21255029v2.full-text, "Correcting COVID-19 PCR Prevalence for False Positives in the Presence of Vaccination Immunity")
So (loosely ... I think ... please correct if wrong) I am about 10 times more likely to record a false positive PCR than I am to experience a post-fully-vaccinated breakthough re-infection...
What that says about the US sports team, I can't say for sure, but I suspect they weren't fully vaccinated (i.e. 4 weeks after 2nd dose) before exposure.
Oh and coming home from our little trip next week, as Geneva French sector remains closed so we have to enter CH by air (viruses don't travel in cars, boats or trains) we're going to have to juggle the 72hr validity for a mid PM Monday flight with most French labs not opening on Saturdays or Sundays (viruses don't infect people at the weekend).
+ I'm liking Rob's point!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@under a new name, as am I. I have about 50 LF tests sitting in my dining room. Both of us testing twice a week to protect the public, and we have to record digitally, although I can see no record of that anywhere, surely someone is keeping a record that can be produced as evidence of a negative test?
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@Hells Bells, and you will both have been vaccinated, right? Not automatic yet but all our tests and jags are uploaded and available through the French anti-COVID app.
Although a total pain to have read while the poor staff are trying to get you boarded. Paper copies all the way!
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@under a new name, The UK has frequently recorded an overall positivity rate lower than the "false positive" rate modelled in that paper; even if every test were positive, that modelled result couldn't be achieved. A triumph of Excel over reality!
Like many of the debates during COVID, it's not about the end-state (which I think we both agree on) it's about whether we go faster or slower. I can live with a few weeks more faffage and/or the cost of the odd lunch. It's all covered by the season pass refund 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@under a new name, yes we are both double-vaccinated and it is recorded on NHS app.
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@snowdave, you will have noticed then that my literature search was far from complete 
Now, I wonder if I can claim the costs (should they still need to be incurred) back on my EHIC?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Hells Bells, out of interest, is that the NHS track and trace app?
How do you go about getting it to show you've had a vaccine? I had my first last week, but can't see anything about it on the app.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@swskier, it is a different app. Just called NHS
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@swskier, NHS app and vax is recorded automatically
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You know it makes sense.
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How long after the second jab do you have to wait to be classed as fully vaccinated? 2 or 4 weeks?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@smagsmith, two weeks seems to be the requirement.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@smagsmith, depends which jab. 2 weeks for OxAz m, Moderna and PfizBio, 4 weeks for J&J
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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edit to delete pedantic unhelpful comment from me
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 18-06-21 9:21; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| … PfizBio … |
I like that, proper recognition.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Hells Bells, and you will both have been vaccinated, right? Not automatic yet but all our tests and jags are uploaded and available through the French anti-COVID app.
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We'll have to call you "2 jags" in future.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| … PfizBio … |
I like that, proper recognition. |
Costs nothing to be accurate!
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@Timmycb5, 
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| … PfizBio … |
I like that, proper recognition. |
Costs nothing to be accurate! |
The trouble is, when I see that compound noun all I can think of is Cam’s clown alter ego in Modern Family (FizzBo, for those who don’t watch the show). Tricky.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| … PfizBio … |
I like that, proper recognition. |
Costs nothing to be accurate! |
The trouble is, when I see that compound noun all I can think of is Cam’s clown alter ego in Modern Family (FizzBo, for those who don’t watch the show). Tricky. |
Despite having smashed through the entire 10 seasons of that recently, I hadn't made that connection. I won't see anything else now.
Eric Stonestreet is absolutely amazing in that. Funniest character I've seen in a sitcom for quite some time.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
Despite having smashed through the entire 10 seasons of that recently, I hadn't made that connection. I won't see anything else now. |
My apologies! 
| Quote: |
| Eric Stonestreet is absolutely amazing in that. Funniest character I've seen in a sitcom for quite some time. |
Yes, just brilliant, although I think pretty much all of the cast were absolutely first class. One of my favourites, and a real refuge for me from Covid depression in the depths of this winter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, definitely. Funniest thing I've seen for ages.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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do we think we will get to a position that double jabbed people will be allowed to travel to france with only a flow test required any time this summer
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| do we think we will get to a position that double jabbed people will be allowed to travel to france with only a flow test required any time this summer |
I am wondering the same. One day I think, no, not a good idea, selfish for the sake of checking the flat - that has been empty for a year and a holiday - then more stats come out on the effectiveness of the vaccines and I think OK, then I see the cases in teens around the country and think, maybe not right to take them over, or we test them and go? Decision, decisions.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| do we think we will get to a position that double jabbed people will be allowed to travel to france with only a flow test required any time this summer |
I am really hoping but that is driven by nothing more than mindless optimism.
I was contemplating rescheduling my flights for new year but given loosing out on Christmas last year I would genuinely rather have a break in the summer and more time over Christmas/ new year to actually celebrate with family this year having been blocked from doing at all this year
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| do we think we will get to a position that double jabbed people will be allowed to travel to france with only a flow test required any time this summer |
That's the position now, unless I'm mistaken? At least from the French point of view. The UK gov still have France on the amber list, but they're looking at changing that for double jabbed people.
This is the rules as far as the French are concerned....
| Quote: |
2. If I need to travel from the UK to France, what documents do I need to show at the border?
All travellers to France from the UK over the age of 11 will need proof of a negative Covid test, taken within 72 hours of departure for PCR tests or within 48 hours of departure for antigen tests.
All travellers will need to complete a sworn statement that they do not have Covid symptoms. If you are not fully vaccinated, you must also complete the section of this form committing to 7 days of self-isolation on arrival: https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/.../Certificate-of...
If you are not fully vaccinated, you will also need an essential reason to travel from the UK to France, and must complete an International Travel Certificate, which you can download here: https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel?fbclid=IwAR3anRmfjD1KECq6k3Th1aikDoRvvUi-4yWrtDZnj_dEtnZy-nPh9Nu0n1k
If you are fully vaccinated, you do not need an essential reason to travel to France, or to self-isolate on arrival. But you will need to have proof of your vaccine status.
3. What does ‘fully vaccinated’ mean and how do I prove I’ve been vaccinated?
The French Government recognises the following vaccines: Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford/AstraZeneca, and Johnson & Johnson (the vaccines recognised by the European Medical Agency). “Fully vaccinated” is defined by the completion of a vaccination schedule, specifically:
• 2 weeks after the second dose of Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford/AstraZeneca
• 4 weeks after the single and only dose of Johnson & Johnson
• 2 weeks after the single dose of any of the above vaccines if you have previously tested positive for COVID-19
The French government have provided information on how to prove your vaccination status here: https://uk.ambafrance.org/Strategy-for-reopening-of-borders-from-9-June-onwards?fbclid=IwAR0YKjczkyRWyxiCQSYYf5SLNbvZTG_sHIirv-WvVYYscmMUZJTmicpdCWw |
Note the bit in bold, it is a lateral flow test.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Timmycb5, the fly in this particular ointment is the UK ...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Timmycb5, the fly in this particular ointment is the UK ... |
Lateral flow is accepted for travel to the U.K. just need to wait for the gov to pull its finger out and cancel quarantine for double jabbed people. I’m 99% confident this will be introduced by summer hols.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @Timmycb5, the fly in this particular ointment is the UK ... |
Lateral flow is accepted for travel to the U.K. just need to wait for the gov to pull its finger out and cancel quarantine for double jabbed people. I’m 99% confident this will be introduced by summer hols. |
Whit out turning this political, I can see this happening as well but in time for the English holiday season, not the Scottish. A seer coincidence that it will have negative affects on SNP support (Lives in hope on both accounts)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the way that it is going is that overall, it will be much easier and more reliable to have full inoculation as the sole criteria for entry, versus any sort of infection test. Most countries now have a Vaccination Certificate of a secure app + paper equivalent with a checkable QR code, with the EU one supposedly available from July 1st. The tests all have downsides such as false positives and lead-times that mean logistical complications around short validity times (between having the test, getting the results, and a short time before they're invalid). The vaccination app/paper solutions can all be checked using the QR code if necessary, and are much easier to administer at immigration/checkin (you either have it or don't). Yes, vaccination certificates discriminate against all sorts of innocent parties such as children, and those unable to be vaccinated, but I think public pressure will override any concerns. And anyway, the two aren't mutually exclusive - I'm fairly certain that you'll still have the option to only produce test results - you'll simply face a bit more in terms of processing time. I feel that the EU nations are so emphatic about free movement as a principle that governments are even more under pressure than ours to streamline international travel, which means vaccination certificates will dominate. The big issue will be about the volatility of imposing/lifting additional test requirements as outbreaks occur around the continent. There may be a more subtle issue around the UK being an island: this means a new variant can spread here, but be contained, in contrast to EU countries with more porous borders, where variants are simply bound to cross borders and as with the Delta Variant, means EU countries may have stricter arrivals rules for us because they don't want a new UK variant in their country.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| ...Yes, vaccination certificates discriminate against all sorts of innocent parties such as children, and those unable to be vaccinated, but I think public pressure will override any concerns. And anyway, the two aren't mutually exclusive - I'm fairly certain that you'll still have the option to only produce test results - you'll simply face a bit more in terms of processing time.... |
And face (quite) a bit more cost. Around £260 for Mrs DJL to have "fit to fly" PCR and day 2&8 tests on her return for a trip to The Netherlands tomorrow.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@LaForet, disagreeing only to the degree that I think the EU scheme is pretty workable, "full" vax, proof of recovery (or both) or recent enough -ve PCR/LF test.
Our only functional problem with e.g. PCRs is that the work shy garlic eating surrender monkeys don't work at the weekend so Monday flights require a bit of effort.
That said, the Swiss military defence forces only worked M-F 09:00-17:00 so it's not a national thing. Note to insane world conquering self, weekend invasions might be the way forward.
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Apologies for the follow up question.
I understand that NHS England has an app that allows you to prove you are fully vaccinated but NHS Scotland doesn’t.
Does anyone know how you can prove your vaccinated if your from NHS Scotland
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| under a new name wrote: |
@snowdave, my point is I suppose 2-fold. I don't really object to a meaningless test, I do object really quite strongly to having to pay (say) a rather nice lunch equivalent cost for it. I think the last number I saw for the UK was £188 for the current two de-quarantine tests.
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£188 for lunch? Do you eat in the Albert 1er ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Jonny996, log into vacs.nhs.scot, set up your profile/ account if need be, and request vaccination certificate download.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
Apologies for the follow up question.
I understand that NHS England has an app that allows you to prove you are fully vaccinated but NHS Scotland doesn’t.
Does anyone know how you can prove your vaccinated if your from NHS Scotland |
As quoted above we are slightly behind the times in Scotland 
We could a few weeks ago print off our vaccine status using vacs.nhs.scot but a problem with the system meant it was easy to alter the name/address and date of birth so we now need to request a paper certificate. Not sure how that can be scanned and altered with a bit of know how?
We only received our 2nd vaccine yesterday but I was able to request our certificate today, as soon as we receive our documents by snail mail I’ll feed back.
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FAQ
