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Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jesus H Christ. One of the attractions of Snowheads has always been the topic meandering of threads but this is getting ridiculous. Can any mod please move the posts that don't even mention the possibility or not of a foreign ski holiday in 20/21 to the main Covid thread.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
When we do get a vaccine, there is already the infrastructure to deliver it to the most vulnerable groups. It can be done in the same way that the flu jab is already done. If the effects are short lived and it needs an annual vaccine, same scenario.

As a carer for 2 elderly parents, I would hope that I would be able to get mine at the same time as they get theirs. This has not always been easy with flu. As I am under 60, I could not get it from my GP. I have got it from Boots for the last few years.


Extending the flu jab to other age groups is a good idea.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
LaForet wrote:
red_dragon wrote:
LaForet wrote:

And you still haven't answered my question - at what level do epidemic deaths warrant the countermeasures that you object to?


At what levels do unemployment numbers have to reach before you start to object to the counter measures?

I don't know, tell me. Along with the answer to the question I asked.


So you expect someone to give you an acceptable death rate figure but you won’t reciprocate and give an acceptable unemployment figure. It’s easy to sit on the internet and say Covid deaths are bad as we all agree on that. What many people are suggesting is are these current lockdowns having the desired effect and if the trade off to these lockdowns is millions losing their jobs at what point does the cure become worse than the disease.
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The Vaccine should be compulsory except if there is an existing medical condition that would exclude it. Anybody refusing should have restrictions placed on their movements and/or work.

I would not complain it this virus was made notifiable, with severe penalties for anyone knowingly risking infecting others.

No one should be allowed to enter the UK unless they can provide proof.

It is likely to be a pre-requisit when visiting most other Countries anyway, Ski holidays or otherwise. (Just to keep @robboj happy.)
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
LaForet wrote:
... I do expect this and similar answers from our political leaders, along with what the Exit Plan looks like, however uncertain.
That's a very reasonable expectation. I'm no defender of this government, but I do note that we have already had this year a period when social distancing restrictions were considerably relaxed. I don't think the government communicated very well what criteria they used to reduce or remove these restrictions, but those restrictions were removed.
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@qwerty360, very good point.

But I would also argue that another two key points that are pretty much ignored by a few posters above are:
- impact on the healthcare system of not having lockdowns - in some countries this could be catastrophic, and it's all very nice to expect that doctors and nurses take it all in their stride, but what happens when they can't anymore?
- poorly understood reasons for the geographic / country variation between transmission rates and death rates - which means that drawing conclusions across borders can go very wrong

Generally, I think a lot of anti-lockdown people have a very biased way of looking for info and selecting arguments that they refer to. It's not that there aren't any reasons to have some optimism / hope that Covid isn't as bad as feared / consider actively the lockdown intensity. It's that the weight of evidence is not on that side of the argument, especially looking at what's happening now.

Plus we get the scare of governments wanting to take away all our freedoms. Governments can't wait to relax these restrictions, it was clear in the summer...
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
brianatab wrote:
The Vaccine should be compulsory except if there is an existing medical condition that would exclude it.
I don't believe that any vaccine should be compulsory, but for those who refuse it we should expect them to continue with social distancing restrictions until such a time as those restrictions are no longer required. Play your part in helping to control the virus with a jab, or play your part with keeping your distance. Either way, play your part.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
I don’t consider myself at risk, so i am not sure i will a vaccine at this point.
Shame on you.

Why ?
Because you're riding on the backs of those people who aren't too scared to be vaccinated. Vaccination is not just a private good, it is a public good. You might not be in a high risk group of becoming ill with Covid, but you are in a high risk group of passing that infection on unintentionally, including to those people who are in a high risk group. If you refuse to be vaccinated because you are frightened of potential side effects you aren't playing your part in helping to control this.

Shame on you.


You are both stupid and ignorant - Quite clearly: If you vaccinate people in/at risk, I would have a really hard time infecting them, but you don't seem to get that. Anyway - You are clearly getting political about this, and I have no intent of going down that road!

I will leave it with the below qoute:

“The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear.” - Aung San Suu Kyi


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 28-10-20 13:14; edited 1 time in total
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rob@rar wrote:
midgetbiker wrote:
Hang on one sec, whilst I am on the lockdown and vaccinate side of the argument as a whole I think that's a bit strong.
I don't think so. He's arguing that we should not attempt to control the virus by restrictions on social contact and says he won't have the vaccine because he's not in an at risk group. I think that's shameful. It's just an opinion, of course, so other people will have their own opinions, but I don't think it's too strong.


Assumptions again - Go back and read again!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
brianatab wrote:

Some idiots are still comparing this virus to flu. Apart from similarities in the way it spreads and a few symtoms, they have absolutely nothing in common.


If you want a discussion it's time to stop call people that don't share your view "idiots". Otherwise, they are different yes, but not all differences are in flu's favor. Flu is very dangerous for little chilldren and causes a lot of pneumonias and subsequent deaths. It develops within hours and kids die within 1-2 days of the onset of complications, so fast that even IV antibiotics cannot help.

brianatab wrote:

Firstly, 10-20% is dreamland.


Bergamo has 50+% proven, many other areas have high percentages. The estimation for my country is about 10% currently or just recently infected, as the proven infected within the past month are close to 1% of the population and most people do not test. At the moment at least 1 in 10 people around me (kids school, friends, coworkers) is sick and most of those who decide to pay for a test do test positive (the state only tests people with serious symptoms nowadays, so most tests are privately paid), so by the end of this wave even 20% is possible, if not more.

brianatab wrote:

I take it from this that you include yourself in that group?
How do you think you were infected?
Did you follow all the rules?
Or did you carry on your life, regardless of the consequences for others?


I haven't tested myself so I am not talking about myself, sorry. Also, I don't know why you assume I go around and never wash my hands? I had a very good hygiene even before there was covid. We did get sick a couple of times in the family from the little kids, this is unavoidable when you have kids. Maybe we had it, maybe it was something else. I don't know.

brianatab wrote:

Suppose I was an idiot, and ignored all the rules, went to parties etc and caught the virus. I might have been lucky and only had mild symptoms, or none.
If I then, knowing I had the virus, carried on in the normal manner, not wearing a mask, coughing onto others, sneezing into my hand, then touching handrails etc, never disinfecting my hands. I would most likely of infected dozens of others, who then, unwittingly passed it on to their grandparents.


Well I don't cough at others , covid or not Smile

Otherwise, research so far has proven that a very few of the infected a responsible for most of the infections, and most people infect mainly just family members. Even when someone gets it, not all family members do get it, only about half in average - it's not anthrax or chicken pox. The so called "super spreaders" are usually symptomatic (although they do infect a lot of people before symptoms appear) and the spreading events involve physical acitvity, loud and prolonged talking/shouting – things like weddings, birthdays, choirs, indoor sports, night clubs, or as proven in Tirol - apres ski bars. I have given up the things on this list, but I can't just give up things that are proven to be safe and live in panic and fear (like when they banned me from hiking in the mountains in the spring...)

And as the topic is about skiing – yes, I do believe it's virtually impossible to get infected on the slope and very unlikely on the lift, so I do think a ski season can be possible, and if there isn't one - it will be politics, not healthcare.
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@rob@rar, How would you deal with those that refuse the vaccine, but also refuse to follow the rules you suggest?

You would never know if the person next to you on the bus/train has refused. You could, unwittingly pass on the virus to someone unable to have the vaccine.

Personally, I don't think we are tough enough on those breaking the rules now.

Anyone having an illegal gathering can (should) be fined, but we should also fine everyone in attendance. I would suggest a minimum £1k, doubling with every subsequent offence.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DanishRider wrote:
I will leave it with the below qoute

What are you suggesting, that we should all go out and commit genocide ?

Not sure she is still considered to be a great role model.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
midgetbiker wrote:
Hang on one sec, whilst I am on the lockdown and vaccinate side of the argument as a whole I think that's a bit strong.
I don't think so. He's arguing that we should not attempt to control the virus by restrictions on social contact and says he won't have the vaccine because he's not in an at risk group. I think that's shameful. It's just an opinion, of course, so other people will have their own opinions, but I don't think it's too strong.


Assumptions again - Go back and read again!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rjs wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
I will leave it with the below qoute

What are you suggesting, that we should all go out and commit genocide ?

Not sure she is still considered to be a great role model.


How the F&%# did you reach that conclusion?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@boyanr, I wasn't suggesting that you coughed over other people, or never washed your hands.

I was asking an hypothetical question regarding myself.

Just for this discussion, assume that the victim in this case was somebody close to you

Should I be rewarded by having a "normal" life, and allowed to go on holiday, having completely disregarded the health of the rest of the population, and probably caused the death of that person?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DanishRider wrote:
You are both stupid and ignorant - Quite clearly: If you vaccinate people in/at risk, I would have a really hard time infecting them, but you don't seem to get that. Anyway - You are clearly getting political about this, and I have no intent of going down that road!

I will leave it with the below qoute:

“The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear.” - Aung San Suu Kyi
Sigh.

You think a vaccine offers 100% protection to everyone who gets the jab, including those elderly people whose imminent system is less effective than younger people. What about those people who aren't able to have a vaccine? You understand what the term 'herd immunity' means? Perhaps not.

Is the decision to be vaccinated a political one? Gosh, politics covers a lot of ground these days.

That quote from Aung San Suu Kyi, was that she when she was defending herself from accusations of genocide?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DanishRider wrote:
Assumptions again - Go back and read again!
Are you saying you will have the vaccine if you are eligible for it? Apologies, getting confused by what you are saying.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
brianatab wrote:
@rob@rar, How would you deal with those that refuse the vaccine, but also refuse to follow the rules you suggest?
I don't know, it's a tough one. As a point of principle I don't think vaccination should be compulsory. But if some things such as international travel require proof of vaccination (or medical exception) I'd have no problem with that.
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Came here for advice about a hopeful Xmas ski trip Puzzled
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BenW_86 wrote:
Came here for advice about a hopeful Xmas ski trip Puzzled
I think the answer is that nobody knows for certain, for some of the reasons outlined in the various branches of discussion that we see above.
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red_dragon wrote:
LaForet wrote:
red_dragon wrote:
LaForet wrote:

And you still haven't answered my question - at what level do epidemic deaths warrant the countermeasures that you object to?


At what levels do unemployment numbers have to reach before you start to object to the counter measures?

I don't know, tell me. Along with the answer to the question I asked.


So you expect someone to give you an acceptable death rate figure but you won’t reciprocate and give an acceptable unemployment figure. It’s easy to sit on the internet and say Covid deaths are bad as we all agree on that. What many people are suggesting is are these current lockdowns having the desired effect and if the trade off to these lockdowns is millions losing their jobs at what point does the cure become worse than the disease.


No, I expect a reasonable discussion. And yes, if someone is saying that the current death rate is not in proportion to the countermeasures being taken in response then I'm interested in a dialogue about what they think the rate is and at what point countermeasures would kick in. I think that's reasonable, surely? Especially since he is the one who posits that they are unjustified. But if you look at his posts, then he has a basic premise - that the figures are made up and that the countermeasures are actions in support of a conspiracy and nothing to do with a non-existent pandemic. So the proportionality argument is irrelevant.

My view is that the jobs vs deaths thing is a False Alternative. Politicians love setting these false alternatives when they can't explain the logic of what they're doing. It leaves people arguing while they walk away. There is no 'cure worse than the disease' situation. It's actually a matter of competence and deploying the right measures to combine the maximum medical benefits for the minimum economic damage i.e. navigating the course of a ship effectively, not deciding whether to stay on land or get in a boat.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
You are both stupid and ignorant - Quite clearly: If you vaccinate people in/at risk, I would have a really hard time infecting them, but you don't seem to get that. Anyway - You are clearly getting political about this, and I have no intent of going down that road!

I will leave it with the below qoute:

“The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear.” - Aung San Suu Kyi
Sigh.

You think a vaccine offers 100% protection to everyone who gets the jab, including those elderly people whose imminent system is less effective than younger people. What about those people who aren't able to have a vaccine? You understand what the term 'herd immunity' means? Perhaps not.

Is the decision to be vaccinated a political one? Gosh, politics covers a lot of ground these days.

That quote from Aung San Suu Kyi, was that she when she was defending herself from accusations of genocide?


I guess you don't really follow the vaccine development, but I do (trading stocks, so the vaccine do matter to me) and AstraZenica have clearly stated that the one they are working on, offers good protection to both elderly and young people. Here they are trying to push a law that means the state can force vaccinate people. As stated early it might no be my thing to get the vaccination at first - Maybe later when we know more about the side effects... Until then I believe that anyone who want it should have it - You suggest that i am selfish for not wanting it, and will transfer covid-19 to the very people that could and should get it. Puzzled


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 28-10-20 13:36; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
LaForet wrote:
red_dragon wrote:
LaForet wrote:
red_dragon wrote:
LaForet wrote:

And you still haven't answered my question - at what level do epidemic deaths warrant the countermeasures that you object to?


At what levels do unemployment numbers have to reach before you start to object to the counter measures?

I don't know, tell me. Along with the answer to the question I asked.


So you expect someone to give you an acceptable death rate figure but you won’t reciprocate and give an acceptable unemployment figure. It’s easy to sit on the internet and say Covid deaths are bad as we all agree on that. What many people are suggesting is are these current lockdowns having the desired effect and if the trade off to these lockdowns is millions losing their jobs at what point does the cure become worse than the disease.


No, I expect a reasonable discussion. And yes, if someone is saying that the current death rate is not in proportion to the countermeasures being taken in response then I'm interested in a dialogue about what they think the rate is and at what point countermeasures would kick in. I think that's reasonable, surely? Especially since he is the one who posits that they are unjustified. But if you look at his posts, then he has a basic premise - that the figures are made up and that the countermeasures are actions in support of a conspiracy and nothing to do with a non-existent pandemic. So the proportionality argument is irrelevant.


My view is that the jobs vs deaths thing is a False Alternative. Politicians love setting these false alternatives when they can't explain the logic of what they're doing. It leaves people arguing while they walk away. There is no 'cure worse than the disease' situation. It's actually a matter of competence and deploying the right measures to combine the maximum medical benefits for the minimum economic damage i.e. navigating the course of a ship effectively, not deciding whether to stay on land or get in a boat.


+1 - This i exactly the discussion we need to get going, and not a narrative based on fear alone!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DanishRider wrote:
I guess you don't really follow the vaccine development, but I do (trading stocks, so the vaccine do matter to me) and AstraZenica have clearly stated that the one they are working on, offers good protection to both elderly and young people.
I follow it as closely as I can, not least because I'm a Phase 3 volunteer on the AstraZeneca trial. Data have not been unblinded so we do not know the level of protection it provides to any demographic group. We know there's a good immune response, and in the last couple of days that's become clear it is not age-dependent. But that's not the same as offering total or even strong protection. Do you know what the conditions are for the trial, particularly what level of protection they are seeking to demonstrate at this stage of the vaccine's development.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 28-10-20 13:43; edited 1 time in total
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I don't think anyone should be forced to have the vaccine – that will just dump fuel on the fires of the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. The fact that they have got so far in the first place is a failure of education and understanding – people should be persuaded to have the vaccine because it is of benefit to society as a whole, as well as to them.

By the way, the UK lost its measles-free status last year: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2213764-the-uk-has-lost-its-world-health-organization-measles-free-status/


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 28-10-20 13:43; edited 1 time in total
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Just rx confirmation that my Easyjet flight from Bristol to Innsbruck 11/12 has been cancelled.

I also have a flight Easyjet Gatwick to Innsbruck 24/12 no longer showing up on their schedule, so Im assuming that one will also get canned.

So they are obviously thinking that this Winter isnt going to happen.

Ironically, we were going to change our 11/12 dates, and drive over, so that was a result.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@LaForet, where have I described a conspiracy theory?? You've clearly not read what I've written. I've said that the official toll is questionable because of the criteria they use which are publicly stated: a toll which has already had to be revised down once because they were counting anyone who had ever had a +ve C19 test that subsequently died as a 'C19 death'. If we are going to do such damaging things on the basis of cases and deaths then should we not make sure we are counting the right thing, and accurately?

No, you're not listening: the deaths from other things are inevitable consequences of organic life and also our choices. Our bodies wear out and hearts stop and brains become ruined by dementia. We choose to eat 'badly' and to drive cars but the benefits in our minds outweigh the consequences. We were free to choose. C19 is no different and the measures we are taking are costing OTHER lives. This is best explained by the simple concept of triage. If you are in a first aid post and two soldiers are brought in you treat the one with a leg off first, not the one with a twisted ankle. If you pour vast amounts of money into C19 it is not available to be spent elsewhere. Look here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-not-among-10-most-common-causes-of-death-in-september-ons-12111980. C19 is killing fewer than many other diseases so logic would suggest you spend the money on those, yes?

As for what level? None. All of the measures we have come up with do not work and are ruining us as the benefits are too expensive. The traditional method is to quarantine the sick and hope for the best against something that is invisible and has evolved over millennia to persist. Viruses will exist for as long as we do and no doubt beyond. That does not mean we don't treat those who are unwell it means that we do not tear ourselves apart over something that affects only a minority.

@telford_mike, the only kind of denier is Holocaust. Don't try and steal moral force from that to try and insinuate that those who disagree with the govt's programme are akin to neo-Nazis. It's foolish. No-one here believes that C19 doesn't exist.

@brianatab, I don't know where to start. Of course those with 'flu are admitted to hospital with complications: that's the point of a hospital. They wouldn't be admitted if the symptoms were mild. Recent studies have shown that 60-80% of people testing +ve for C19 are without symptoms but that to me casts more doubt on the accuracy of the tests, especially given the false +ve rate that has been discussed elsewhere: it could be that these +ves without symptoms are those who don't have it at all or last had it months ago. Also, chickenpox isn't vaccinated against so I don't know why that's in the list.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
boobleblooble wrote:
...All of the measures we have come up with do not work ...
Are you honestly saying that for a virus which spreads by social contact, reducing or removing that social contact will have no effect on how the virus spreads?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
I guess you don't really follow the vaccine development, but I do (trading stocks, so the vaccine do matter to me) and AstraZenica have clearly stated that the one they are working on, offers good protection to both elderly and young people.
I follow it as closely as I can, not least because I'm a Phase 3 volunteer on the AstraZeneca trial. Data have not been unblinded so we do not know the level of protection it provides to any demographic group. We know there's a good immune response, and in the last couple of days that's become clear it is not age-dependent. But that's not the same as offering total or even strong protection. Do you know what the conditions are for the trial, particularly what level of protection they are seeking to demonstrate at this stage of the vaccine's development.


As a shareholder i do follow that, and they are going for the antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein as a 95% succes at first injection, and have reached 91%. Latest figures showed 100% after second injection measured one month after injection. This is for AZD1222.

This is a result Britain can be proud of!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@rob@rar, I'm saying that you cannot control a virus. Slowing it down is not control when the cost is the damage we have seen already. If I were to defend myself from burglars by not having any possessions it would not be much of a defence. That is if you even accept the idea that we have slowed it at all: look at the curves for European countries over the summer: they are all the same shape despite the various measures. It sounds counter-intuitive but how else do you explain the disparities? Masks? Please. We didn't have them anywhere in Europe yet the results varied wildly.

C19 is going to kill those that it will and the only way to avoid it is to hide forever. This situation reminds me of the old fables about people trying to run from death:

"There once was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to the market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling as he said, “Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a man in the crowd, and when I turned, I saw it was Death that jostled me. He looked at me and made a threatening gesture, now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me.”

The merchant lent his servant his horse, and the servant mounted it and dug his spurs into the horse’s flanks, and as fast as the horse could gallop, he went. Then the merchant went down to the marketplace, and he saw Death standing in the crowd, and the merchant came to Death and said, “Why did you make a threating gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?”

“That was not a threatening gesture,” said Death, “It was only a startle of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Baghdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra""
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@boobleblooble Your own words:

'made-up numbers from the start of the pandemic that caused the scare have now been thoroughly laughed at as they were dangly bits'

'expert opinion' is one of the worst forms of evidence'

'You're a coward.'

'the only idiot is you.'

'how long will you accept the restrictions on your life and why are you so happy to hand your freedom to the gov't to hand back at their permission?'

'We have shifted to an authoritarian state where the gov't and Police have exercised power in excess of the laws that they have been given and there are hundreds of thousands who love their submission'

So, yes, a conspiracy theory. And one that seems to brook no contradiction.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DanishRider wrote:
As a shareholder i do follow that, and they are going for the antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein as a 95% succes at first injection, and have reached 91%. Latest figures showed 100% after second injection measured one month after injection. This is for AZD1222.
And the outcome of that immune response is what? Protection against death? Protection against serious illness? Complete protection against getting infected? Is that what the Phase 3 trial is looking to demonstrate, so that those people who get vaccinated while no longer be at risk from those people like you who are going to choose not to have the vaccine?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
boobleblooble wrote:
@rob@rar, I'm saying that you cannot control a virus. Slowing it down is not control when the cost is the damage we have seen already.
Bonkers!
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DanishRider wrote:


This is a result Britain can be proud of!


As will be the fact that, if successful, we will probably give it to the rest of the World at cost price, unlike a lot of Countries.

Can you imagine the price Trump would try to extract if an American Company developed the best working model?

How many Countries would be excluded?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
As a shareholder i do follow that, and they are going for the antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein as a 95% succes at first injection, and have reached 91%. Latest figures showed 100% after second injection measured one month after injection. This is for AZD1222.
And the outcome of that immune response is what? Protection against death? Protection against serious illness? Complete protection against getting infected? Is that what the Phase 3 trial is looking to demonstrate, so that those people who get vaccinated while no longer be at risk from those people like you who are going to choose not to have the vaccine?


Yes - You got it wink
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You'll need to Register first of course.
@brianatab, China?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
brianatab wrote:
DanishRider wrote:


This is a result Britain can be proud of!


As will be the fact that, if successful, we will probably give it to the rest of the World at cost price, unlike a lot of Countries.

Can you imagine the price Trump would try to extract if an American Company developed the best working model?

How many Countries would be excluded?


I will not voice my opinion about Trump, but i will voice my concern: I actually fear that he have a chance of getting a second period! But this is far off topic, so let's leave it at that:-)
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@LaForet, sigh OK.

- the estimates of deaths were done by a variety of people but those from Ferguson in particular were miles off. These were models which are so poorly-estimated as to essentially be made up or, if you like, a guess.

- expert opinion IS one of the worst forms of evidence: it sits at the level of case studies. The best are randomised controlled trials and then meta-reviews such as those produced by Cochrane: shorturl.at/diwR0.

- yes I've insulted others on this thread after being insulted and losing my patience.

- we have handed our freedom to the gov't: they give us permission to do things that we have naturally been doing for years. Little things like trading freely and associating with our families. Protesting in the streets (now only permissible if it's 'safe' according to C19 rules which limits the numbers) unless of course it's fashionable like BLM whereupon no-one is forcibly dispersed or fined, and the Police join in or run away.

- we HAVE shifted to an authoritarian state. For years everything that was not expressly forbidden was permitted. Now we have inverted that and have to have gov't permission as to even what we wear in public, regardless of the evidence. Please see any of Lord Sumption's speeches including that which he delivered last night to the Cambridge Law faculty. If an ex-Supreme Court judge is saying these things then I would think he is on to something.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@boobleblooble,
Also worth noting that the Countries who appear to have been (or claim to be) most successful are extremely more Authoritarian than the UK, or any Western Country.

If the rest of the world is prevented from seeing just how brutally they dealt with it, and actual death rates, not those the Govt choose to release...
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
DanishRider wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
DanishRider wrote:
As a shareholder i do follow that, and they are going for the antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein as a 95% succes at first injection, and have reached 91%. Latest figures showed 100% after second injection measured one month after injection. This is for AZD1222.
And the outcome of that immune response is what? Protection against death? Protection against serious illness? Complete protection against getting infected? Is that what the Phase 3 trial is looking to demonstrate, so that those people who get vaccinated while no longer be at risk from those people like you who are going to choose not to have the vaccine?


Yes - You got it wink
So you don't know what the answers are? Are you sure you're following this as closely as you think you are?
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