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Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Extracts from My OP on Page 1...... It is Turning out about about how I thought...

Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

""""It possibly could be ....

Lockdowns & Quarantines could yet go on for some months …... until the Autumn in some places

Flattening the Curve does not mean CV19 has gone away.......far from it Shocked

Without a proven successful Vaccine and even with the further economic consequences
I do not think countries like Italy, Austria would risk it again (not this soon)....

Mass International Gatherings ??...Which is what Ski Resorts essentially are

Unless there is some kind of Compulsory CV19 All Clear Health Certificate for EVERY visitor ..They will end up back up at square one...

Before the 20/21 Ski season a CV19 vaccine HAS to be "Discovered" Tested, Trialed and then put into production and rolled out (Mass Vaccination) by at least
October 2020..Very very unlikely.

******

Reminder: It has taken 40 years to discover a vaccine for HIV still with no luck !!

Will any Insurance company cover travellers when booking anything until the restrictions are TOTALLY lifted ..?? """""

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

@SkiingQuinHat,

no you have to do immediate Quarantine on entry into Switzerland ..


May I transit this country?

It is possible to stop over at one of the Swiss airports,
as long as you do not leave the transit zone of the airport and you can prove that you can continue your
journey to your destination country. If you are unable to board your flight and are stuck in an
international transit area of an airport, contact the local border control authorities directly.
Third country nationals travelling from a Covid risk area, are allowed to transit if
they are holding a residence document for their destination country in the Schengen Area
and travel through Switzerland to their destination country. Furthermore,
those planning to transit Switzerland in their way to their destination country can no longer
do so if they depart from one of the countries in Switzerland’s list of high-risk areas.



https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/CHE/2003



A negative test result does not exempt you from the mandatory quarantine requirement

"""People who have spent time in a country or area with an increased risk of
infection and then enter Switzerland must go into quarantine.
The countries and areas affected are set down in a list.
This list is regularly updated in line with the epidemiological situation."""

Because the UK and nearly ALL European Countries are on the list .

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/empfehlungen-fuer-reisende/quarantaene-einreisende.html#1918240392

@skivor,

I dont care if your 76 , 56, 36 or 16. ""I think each individual will have to weigh up risk vs reward"". You appear to only care about yourself and not other people ""

You and people with this attitude are The Problem !!! Shocked Shocked

Have you ever thought of the possibility having an accident or the very REAL risk falling ill with CoV19 in Austria and then blocking up their Medical Services ?

Please check how you intend to travel to Austria as its currently not easy without breaking CoV19 regulations of neighbouring countries and these are likely to be tightened up.

Health is more important than Economy.
Without Health there is NO Economy.

Dead Folks do not Recover
Economy's will Recover

Everyone

STAY AT HOME.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 27-10-20 11:13; edited 3 times in total
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have written off next year & probably 50/50 about 2022.

Just because Country X, Y, Z may have the worst of it behind them, I am sure they will be weary about tourist from country A, B, C.
We are only into month 4 of the 2020 & every country is at a different stage of the pandemic. Most are going for the flatten the curve scenario so health systems do not not become overrun to the point that treatment would be for the minority/lucky few.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's too soon to start. Be patient.
ski holidays
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Next year will be possible - there may be restrictions in place like wearing masks at airports but the economic implications are too much for a lockdown to still be in place by then.

Whether you will be able to afford it between brexit and the economy tanking is a lot more uncertain.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Of course next year will happen the financial and social consequences of skiing and other activities not resuming would be far worse. By the Autumn a large portion will have had the virus so spread will slow. That's not to say things will be like last year and there may be restrictions of some sort in place.
An antibody test will be a game changer
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Austria is reported to be the first country outside China to announce a plan to move towards a resumption of normal life, if things go well. Restaurants reopening next month, sporting events in June. @HintertuxAt glacier, pictured yesterday, aims to open for snowsports year round

source: @snowforecast on Twitter.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski wrote:
Austria is reported to be the first country outside China to announce a plan to move towards a resumption of normal life, if things go well. Restaurants reopening next month


Like Sweden has been all along.... Denmark and Czech Rep also have plans to relax restrictions.
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Technical analysts sees GBP/EUR near to parity in three weeks (Begin May).



Snuck that old chestnut in again stantwit
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
As I said in the other thread we have decided to presume it will be but that's mainly on the basis of managing our disappointment if it is.

One thing I am certain of is that unless there are massive steps forward in the control of the virus then it will be a last minute booking. As we are habitual mid/late January skiers I am not going to worry too much about availability.

If 21/22 is at risk then all bets are off. There will be nothing left to go to.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
ansta1 wrote:
Quote:

Technical analysts sees GBP/EUR near to parity in three weeks (Begin May).



Snuck that old chestnut in again stantwit


Yep, same old parasitic posting.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ansta1 wrote:

Snuck that old chestnut in again stantwit

And you help highlight it, in case anyone not reading the troll's post.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Next year will be fine.
Wuhan travel restrictions lifted today. After 12 weeks lockdown. Once the other counties get through their lockdown phases, the World will start to go back to normal. The start of the season is still 6 months away, at least. Plenty of time.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Next year may be fine but will we be able to get medical insurance?
snow conditions
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

And you help highlight it, in case anyone not reading the troll's post.

exactly
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
No way of being at all sure on this. However, I think there's a good chance that many restrictions will be lifted across most of Europe before the end of summer, i.e. well before the next ski season.

However, my main concern would be over subsequent spikes in cases as a result of restrictions being eased. These spikes could then lead to further short-term restrictions in specific countries or regions, the timing and location of which would be very difficult to predict more than a couple of weeks in advance.

That would make booking holidays well in advance quite tricky, with a high risk of disruption. Of course, if flying to another country is involved then trips could be affected at either end, i.e. double the risk.

Trips closer to home should be easier as there are fewer things which could go wrong. For example, I wouldn't envisage any major problems with last minute ski holidays within your own country.

Things may become clearer over the next few months as we can see what happens to cases in countries emerging from lockdowns.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@denfinella, I suspect you are right that there subsequent waves, which could mean localised or national closures again. Although normally I’m an obsessive early booker, this is not the year to book early. Unless you get an amazing deal on flights, to say, Geneva, that has tons of options including leaving the airport via two countries perhaps.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
denfinella wrote:
Trips closer to home should be easier as there are fewer things which could go wrong. For example, I wouldn't envisage any major problems with last minute ski holidays within your own country.


Lets just hope that we get a good winter here, at least then we will have the option.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Fridge03 wrote:
Next year will be fine.
Wuhan travel restrictions lifted today. After 12 weeks lockdown. Once the other counties get through their lockdown phases, the World will start to go back to normal. The start of the season is still 6 months away, at least. Plenty of time.


I think that's far too optimistic - the end of first lockdown phase is only the start of the whole thing really.

Disruption can't end until either 1) A successful vaccine has been produced and given to the majority of the population or 2) A majority of the population has already had the disease and is now immune

It's a really difficult problem, and I suspect things like skiing (no doubt seen by policy makers as both unnecessary and high risk) could be among the last things to get back up and running again.
ski holidays
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Quote:

Disruption can't end until either 1) A successful vaccine has been produced and given to the majority of the population or 2) A majority of the population has already had the disease and is now immune

or 3) Once the health service has the capacity to offer intensive care to all those who have the capacity to benefit from it, we accept that some continuing level of morbidity and mortality is the inevitable outcome of not keeping everybody locked down indefinitely and give people the option of assessing for themselves the extent of the risk they are willing to run with Covid (along with all the other risks inherent in life).
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
or (4) we develop procedures which reduce the mortality rate to something closer to that of 'flu, at which point we treat it like that.
ski holidays
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You'll need to Register first of course.
pam w wrote:
Quote:

Disruption can't end until either 1) A successful vaccine has been produced and given to the majority of the population or 2) A majority of the population has already had the disease and is now immune

or 3) Once the health service has the capacity to offer intensive care to all those who have the capacity to benefit from it, we accept that some continuing level of morbidity and mortality is the inevitable outcome of not keeping everybody locked down indefinitely and give people the option of assessing for themselves the extent of the risk they are willing to run with Covid (along with all the other risks inherent in life).


Maybe. But referring back to the opening post, the insurance implications could be quite something for those over 60. And the health services in Alpine countries might look unfavourably on looking after tourists. So, returning to the OP, the ability to ski next year is a known unknown. FWIW, I am hoping to go.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@pam w, @philwig, Yes, essentially a really difficult balancing act based on many different factors that's never been attempted before on such a large scale. I thought this BBC article was quite good at exploring the options, and why even if the lockdown is able to be mostly lifted in the next few weeks or months, it's a long way from the end of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52183295

I'm of course hoping to ski next winter! But if I make any bookings I'll be sure that it's refundable.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Let’s all tell Stanton it is over and then he might go away and not post all his tosh
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Story today on front of The Times today (behind paywall, unfortunately) quoting Sarah Gilbert, of an Oxford biotech spin-out called Vaccitech, saying she believes her team have a vaccine that could be ready for mass production as early as this September. It's going out for human trials very soon. She is 80 per cent confident it will work. Government involved in funding, etc.

No idea how credible this is, but it does seem to re-set the whole issue of vaccine development timescales - and that could helpful even if this particular vaccine does not, in the event, prove to be the answer.

The acceleration seems to be based on conducting parallel trials, instead of the normal sequential process, and gaining emergency certification. She says the regulatory authorities are being very helpful in this respect.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 11-04-20 8:48; edited 1 time in total
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
TurdyMcFlude wrote:
Next year may be fine but will we be able to get medical insurance?


Henceforth, all insurance policies will have a coronavirus exclusion clause.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/covid-19-has-exposed-the-hypocrisy-of-insurance-companies/
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@agw, My 2020/2021 ski holiday is covered for corona as the annual insurance and holiday were purchased before the lockdown. Although obviously if any travel restrictions are still in place I will not be able to go.

Referring to Pam W's post above surely disruption could also end if a successful treatment is found for corona.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
My fivepennyworth
1. There is an economic imperative not to lose the season. So depends on herd immunity being established by vaccine or enough of the population have developed the antibodies. Assuming no mutation of the virus as happened in 1918. There were 3 waves then. If death levels go down to normal winter levels they will open.
2. Insurance rates will be high as there are so many unknowns
3. They could be some restrictions. Chairs and drags ok but bubbles etc not
4. Some ski companies will have gone to the wall. So accommodation availability may be heavily reduced.

Going to leave it several months to see what happens before thinking about my December month long trip.

My view chances are we will not lose the season but....
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Current word on the street is that Schengen + 1 zone will have external borders shut for the near future but you will be able to move internally from the start of summer. Guess who the +1 is?
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof wrote:
Current word on the street is that Schengen + 1 zone will have external borders shut for the near future but you will be able to move internally from the start of summer. Guess who the +1 is?


Us in the UK hopefully.

I am desperate to get over to EK, and will be on the first tunnel train when it all opens.

As for next season, I cannot see it wont be open as usual. Of course there will have been a big toll on hotels etc, but the resort will have to open, or it will go bankrupt!

I really think that by July travel will be allowed-its big business in France during the summer hols, and TBH, this virus business is not about how many people get it etc (and I dont think its as deadly as is portrayed) all this lock down is about is making sure that the hospitals are not overloaded.

I would guess that millions and millions of people have had this, and that when thats become clear, the mortality rate will be very low.
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
Current word on the street is that Schengen + 1 zone will have external borders shut for the near future but you will be able to move internally from the start of summer. Guess who the +1 is?


Ireland?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
davidof wrote:
Current word on the street is that Schengen + 1 zone will have external borders shut for the near future but you will be able to move internally from the start of summer. Guess who the +1 is?


Brits being unable to travel to EU next winter due to combination of covid-19 and brexit seems distinctly possible.

Will bring things quickly into focus for the Brexit idiots. Stuck on our own little island with no where to go until a vaccine found.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think the resorts will open up - as much as it sounds harsh economics will win eventually, otherwise, it's bankruptcy on a scale most of the forum members will never have witnessed. You can already see a lot governments trying to open things up as much as they can. You could always go to Sweden, doubt they will close anything!
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Haggis_Trap wrote:
davidof wrote:
Current word on the street is that Schengen + 1 zone will have external borders shut for the near future but you will be able to move internally from the start of summer. Guess who the +1 is?


Brits being unable to travel to EU next winter due to combination of covid-19 and brexit seems distinctly possible.

Will bring things quickly into focus for the Brexit idiots. Stuck on our own little island with no where to go until a vaccine found.


More remainac crap from the losers. The EU has hardly covered itself in glory during the pandemic. Recent poll shows 49% of Italians now want to leave.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
mitcva wrote:
The EU has hardly covered itself in glory during the pandemic.


And the UK has it under control ?
Reality is that we are long way off finding a solution to this problem.
Either a vaccine or majority of population becoming immune the only obvious escape route.

The entire continent of Europe, including UK, is clearly a long way off opening borders and letting flights fly anywhere.
Once travel does happen then it will need to be on a controlled basis.
My guess is that when EU does open up then it will initially be on regional basis ?
Anything else would be insanity. Following on from that member states most likely to get priority over outsiders ?

Who knows what will happen by next winter - however I certainly wouldn't be planning a summer holiday to Benidorm wink
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[quote="Philip1972"]
Quote:


I am desperate to get over to EK, and will be on the first tunnel train when it all opens.

TBH, this virus business is not about how many people get it etc (and I dont think its as deadly as is portrayed)

I would guess that millions and millions of people have had this, and that when thats become clear, the mortality rate will be very low.


Which planet are you living on?

feel free to get over to Europe as soon as you can, but don't expect to get there and back again without a considerable time in quarantine.

btw, the numbers you think have had it are a tiny, % of the world population. Do you think most are immune? This problem will remain until either we have a successful vaccine or at least 4-5 billion have had it and recovered.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 12-04-20 9:47; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I am saying that the EU, as an institution, has been utterly hopeless in this crisis, as many commentators (even ones who are normally pro-EU) have pointed out. Every EU country has done its own thing, the ECB has snubbed Italy, the richer countries won't bail out the poorer ones (witness the Coronabond debacle), and the Euro currency has proved to be a big part of the problem.

Frankly, I wish all countries well. Who wouldn't? I am very fond of Europe - especially Austria. I do hope things will get back to something like normal in due course.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If ski resorts are open for the winter season 2020/21, I'm just wondering how many TO's offering ski holidays Flights/Transfers/Accommodation may just get their product wrong. I suspect that there will be many more UK skiers who would drive out in their own little "bubble-car" rather than risk a "health exposure" at airports, on planes, in transfer coaches, crowded hotels, etc. IMHO, ski holidays and skiers will have to adapt to a new-world order that takes into account some form of social distancing, restrictions in bars/resto's, limited numbers in uplifts, ….. whatever.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
One worrying scenario is that a number of countries will open up prematurely and the whole thing will take off again.

A lot of people are currently uninfected (given evidence so far from countries with a high level of testing). Herd immunity is really a term more used for immunisation regimes (i.e. what's the minimum %immunisation level at which you can tolerate people being unvaccinated). Whereas 'natural' herd immunity can take years/decades to achieve (and involve repeated cycles of severe infection fallout).

This large pool of uninfected means that we could go through many cycles of lockdown/death spikes/death reduction/unlocking/epidemic if we're over-eager with unlocking. And worse, if more key workers in the supply chain get hit, we may get a whole set of problems because we don't have the food/petrol/medicines/trains/buses etc. we need. And by 'we' I mean Europe, from which 40% of our agricultural imports come, for example.

This sounds pessimistic, but all I'm saying is this is why understanding the various Exit Strategies is very important. And the factors and metrics that decide us on one course of action, versus another. Actually, the term isn't ideal - it implies there is a single way out of this when really what we're talking about is the landscape and various possible routes from where we are back to 'normal'.

And what will 'normal' look like, anyway? Suddenly, a Premier League footballer taking a voluntary pay cut down to 'only' £7m/year seems simply grotesque compared to a graduate nurse on £28K/year with a £30K student debt and the risk of dying from a viral infection. 80% of UK grocery sales in the hands of five corporations - has this served us well? Carrots grown 10 miles from me going on a 220 mile 'round-trip to be sent back to the local superstore a mile away - is this better than buying local produce in my local farm shop? There are lots and lots of things we need to think about across the board.

Against this backdrop, the 2020-21 ski season looks rather secondary. But perhaps that's wrong - for those Alpine communities and businesses affected, it's a vital issue and a matter of current livelihood and even whether they have a future at all.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Haggis_Trap wrote:
mitcva wrote:
The EU has hardly covered itself in glory during the pandemic.


And the UK has it under control ?
Reality is that we are long way off finding a solution to this problem.
Either a vaccine or majority of population becoming immune the only obvious escape route.

The entire continent of Europe, including UK, is clearly a long way off opening borders and letting flights fly anywhere.
Once travel does happen then it will need to be on a controlled basis.
My guess is that when EU does open up then it will initially be on regional basis ?
Anything else would be insanity. Following on from that member states most likely to get priority over outsiders ?

Who knows what will happen by next winter - however I certainly wouldn't be planning a summer holiday to Benidorm wink


I think it could be a long time before Schengen is open again.
Infact, it may be a case UK is ready to open borders back to EU Countries before some Schengen areas are reopened.
Greece being a good example as it has no land schengen border. On the otherside of the coin, Ireland would probably prefer a direct route to mainland Europe via the UK. So would make sense if Country A is OK to travel through Country B to get to Country C, then it should be OK for Country B to travel to A & C.
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