Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping

A snowHead

@pieman666, true, if you had to keep looking behind to check then your eyes aren’t ahead of you checking for unpredictable obstacles.
It’s like driving, you have to allow for other people doing things you might not expect. If you do that and allow people plenty of room then chances are you won’t crash (assuming appropriate speed).

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@holidayloverxx, He can't moan at personal attacks when he's calling perfectly justified people minding their own business as Dickheads.

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Am I watching the right video here? Someone on skis on big wide slope, goes in direction of where boarder is pootling about ?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

1. know the rules
2. understand others don't know or care about the rules
3. obey the rules, in spite of #2

For simplicity, just use the Golden Rule

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Hilariously, he has a video in his thread about skiing holidays with a none skiing girlfriend where as he accelerates from just creeping along panning his camera about, you can clearly see his shadow. His head doesn't move. ie. No look.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@cameronphillips2000, ...er.....yes, that’s the size of it....

After all it is free

....and while travelling this week I decided to watch the various videos and nonsense on my phone (I was stuck for 4 hours in the midst of a Ryan Air ‘special’) and watching the video of ValaisGrom doing some excellent carving at Vercorin - on off piste planks no less. He was running this nice predictable turns, very measured and smooth - ll in a nice straight line. And I could see some idiot nearly hitting him every turn, the divot having to throw a big braking turn in every time. I tutted and muttered.

And then I saw who it was. My partner, his mother.

Gulp.

@valais2, Whoops

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Don’t listen to them Peter. It is obvious that the Boarder is at fault. I’m not sure at which point he made his initial mistake, but it could have been in Decathalon when he bought that two-tone jacket with the tan sleeves.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

http://youtube.com/v/wuIpX6m5W3w

Don't see what the problem is. The boarder did nothing wrong, (much as it goes against the grain to say that Sad

). The skier could easily have been on the other side of the piste. Missed him by quite a margin. I have had much closer scrapes. Toofy Grin

@Awdbugga, Did I miss the popcorn? Sad

You know it makes sense.

@thecramps, Ouch!! but no more that he deserved Toofy Grin

That's got to be the most idiotic base jump ever! He even forgot his parachute. rolling eyes

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@thecramps, Oooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooouch!

A snowHead

@peter_h, I know it's been said several times on the thread now, but I feel I have to add another comment in defence of the poor boarder who has done nothing wrong and is being unfairly labelled as a dickhead on your video!

As everyone has said and you've confirmed, if stationary, look uphill before setting off, but if moving, the downhill skier/boarder has priority (you should be leaving sufficient space for you to be able to deal with unpredictable turning patterns/changes in speed, etc.). Surely you can't realistically expect people to look behind them before turning - would you really do this yourself? As a somewhat cautious skier, who isn't that keen on knowing there are loads of people behind me - I know many will be wanting to overtake me! - I am often tempted to look round when I can hear someone close behind (and tend to glance before turning in a particularly congested area). However, I've been told by at least one ski instructor to stop worrying about what's behind me and just concentrate on what's ahead of me - as already said above, it's not feasible or particularly safe to turn round every time you turn!

A snowHead

Well, I think the name of the video should be changed, but the thread is mostly useful, if only to get the issues out there.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There are rules and then there is common sense. The 2 do not always lead to the same decision. Blindly following rules may leave you technically in the right, but physically a train wreck, eg... there are slopes in the Arlberg (eg return from the Valfagehrbahn or exit from Zürser Tali) where is it common practice to tuck to build up enough speed to carry you over the flat. Doing blind turns across those slopes, and relying on the rule that the uphill skier/rider will give way, is unlikely to have a happy ending.

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Yes, have to agree with other posters. Just watched the other ski video from OP and the skiing technique would suggest a skier of little experience from the technique.
Looking at the original video it's clear the boarder is just pootling about, traversing etc and needs a wide berth. Any skier of experience would simply steer wide.

I guess reading other slope users is something you gain from experience.
To suggest the boarder is an idiot is quite wrong. If people are going to take to the mountains where there are other people then you have to constantly read the terrain and what's happening in front of you.

You will always get collisions on busy slopes. Skiers and boarders are human. This was wide, flat and open, lots of space for everyone to have fun. I agree with somebody's comments about the OP improving their skiing. I think some lessons on edging and carving rather than skidding would help with their control, give then far more scope to turn acutely and respond better to whats happening around them. If you're going to ski quicker than a those in front of you, which quite often happens on nursery slopes, you really need to be able to read what's going on and have the ability to turn quickly and avoid the unexpected. That said, in this case, just not skiing near the boarder to start with would have been the obvious and sensible thing to do.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

"Surely you can't realistically expect people to look behind them before turning - would you really do this yourself? "

I would not look behind if I am moving forward at any significant speed but I would not make sudden directional changes, left or right, across the slope, because it is pretty obvious somebody will hit me. Most skiers on the blue runs are not supermen (like some of the 4-figure and 5-figure post count posters here clearly are) and if I do something sudden enough, one of them will not be able to avoid me.

According to the above rules, *they* will be in the wrong, but I am now in hospital.

That snowboarder did just that, without looking. The video clearly shows he didn't check. Obviously, nothing happened, because I was quite some way back.

So why do it? It's dumb to risk oneself and others, just because some rule says you are entitled to do it. Like I wrote earlier, you are 100% entitled to lock all four wheels in the fast lane of the M25.

That run is at the top end of the blue scale. The next one there is a bit quicker and is a red. May not be obvious from that video but people go quite quick down there, and I won't bother posting others because somebody will make some crude comment about wasting x minutes of his life.

The stuff about me being a beginner is irrelevant. I can carve the skis on edge well enough - on the parts which are reasonably gentle. I was skiing around average relative to the others on those slopes. You get this stuff in every ski forum... anybody who is not a great skier is a waste of space and must get more and more instruction. Most skiers on forums refuse to believe there are people who just enjoy skiing at a particular level.

I've been on forums since their earliest days, early 1990s, and have seen this chimpanzee community "beat him up while others are" behaviour on a lot of them. It comes down to the mod policy. I run a forum too (technology area) so have to deal with this daily. Snowheads doesn't have mods who particularly care about personal attacks, which is good for site click counts and nothing else. What you get in the end is a few dozen regulars who enjoy the entertainment and end up dominating the forum, while everybody else has buggered off.

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@peter_h, regardless of any personal comments...do you accept any of the many comments that you were too close and should have given a wider berth?

I am honestly just a recreational skier. I do look behind me before changing my line but i spend 99% of time looking ahead and to the sides. If I need to pass someone I do so with caution and with the possibility they might do something unexpected...do you not do the same? If not why not? Because you don't think you should? Because you can't? These are serious questions not Willy waving

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

"Most skiers on the blue runs are not supermen (like some of the 4-figure and 5-figure post count posters here clearly are) and if I do something sudden enough, one of them will not be able to avoid"....er yes they will if they are alert and skiing in control

After all it is free

"Most skiers on forums refuse to believe there are people who just enjoy skiing at a particular level. "

If you read enough on here you will find loads that people should be allowed to find their level and stick at it...usually competent but nervous skiers who just like blue runs. The key word here is competent.

You are happy to stay at the level you are at...but you not competent.

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@peter_h, If you already thought that, why did you bother to post here, especially with a video where the person you criticise clearly did nothing wrong?

Most skiers sensibly give a wide berth to others, especially on wide gentle blues. Being a beginner is irrelevent. As you claim to be competent. why did you ski so close? or were you paying more attention to the camera than to where you were going?

People do not come here to "beat people up". However, if someone invites comments, they will say it as they see it!

And far from a few dozen regulars, how many other ski forums regularly have 100+ participants on a bash?

Ps. It was the friendly banter on this forum that encouraged vast numbers of people, including myself to sign up and be an active participant.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

"do you accept any of the many comments that you were too close and should have given a wider berth?"

I probably need to give any snowboarder at least 10m laterally.

"yes they will if they are alert and skiing in control"

Wishful thinking; too late if you are in hospital.

snow reports

@peter_h, i give up...you don't get it and don't want to. I have no time or respect for you or your attitude. Im out

Absolutely no way that the snowboarder in that first video was doing anything wrong. No way at all.

You know it makes sense.

Ultimately the bottom line is that skiing is becoming more dangerous overall compared to say 10-20 years ago as you get a combination of straight liners, snow ploughers, speed merchants who like carving across the slopes faster than their ability to stop due to easier to turns skis, snowboarders etc. In the 90s it was a lot more simple. You had beginners moving more slowly across the slope, faster skiers occupying a narrower portion of the run and occasional snowboarders so it was much easier to predict turn trajectories. And you had slower lifts so less people on the runs.

The only way I can stay safe nowadays overtaking is giving people a massive amount of leeway, preparing to alter turn path, emergency stop etc at a moments notice. 10 m is not unreasonable if the turn trajectory is at risk of intercepting!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I have been knocked clean out of my skis, while standing at the edge of the piste, slightly behind the Piste marker (waiting for a timid Intermediate); I have been taken out while riding up a drag lift and I have been hit from behind, while making consistent short turns down the side of a piste.....and the most bizarre occasion happened at L2A at the terrain park, when skiing the line of giant "camel bumps". I waited for a reasonable length of time to make sure they were clear....then set off, and as i came over the third one (in mid air), I realised that there was a snowboarder lying in the hollow, sunning himself - and I landed on him. Unbelievably, neither of us were hurt and he was very apologetic.....and said he was taking just a break and thought nobody was about, so had been there for a good 10 mins.

What I see in your video is not something that I would be concerned about.

A snowHead

@peter_h, Apart from the fact your "NOT entitled to lock all four wheels" in the fast lane of any motorway (lane hogging is now an offence), you are the only person out of many who agrees with you. By ignoring what has been suggested you are ignoring many years of experience. Your persistent arrogance is why your getting a progressively harder time. You clearly ski with an aggressive attitude which does not correspond to your limited skiing ability. Am i a great skier? Er, no. But I am a lot better than you. And I am a lot more experienced, I am better at anticipating, i am more tolerant and don't ski around seemingly trying to create situations by deliberately and aggressively skiing close to nervous beginners and small children.
Pretty much every regular on Snowheads regularly offers help, advice, answering questions on loads of things involved in winter sports and many other things besides. It is a great and open resource where we can pick each other's brains, and we do. You asked a question, you didn't like the answer. Whatever, but if you can't take it, don't dish it out
(You started out calling the snowboarder a dickhead)

A snowHead

I'm not a.troller and try.amd be constructive on here. I do post a lot, bit try to be positive about the sport and people Peter

However your use of the words idiot.and dickhead suggest maybe mindset might not.be the best when skiing with others.

The video clearly shows somebody just enjoying the slope and doing nothing dangerous. To suggest they are an idiot is a bit more a reflection on your attitutide o. The hill than theirs. Sorry to have to say this.

You might find it easier if you hired a whole hill for.yourself. there are people who behave like idiots in the hills, we've all seen them but this boarder really did nothing wrong. If you think they did you need some training on hill awareness.

I jome about boarders but, on a serious note, they need a wider berth because they have a blindside when they turn.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

This is an odd thread!

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Time to drag this one out again

http://youtube.com/v/RoXk9qY1fWU

And whether I as the uphill skier was wrong rolling eyes

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@peter_h, can you clarify about what you want our feedback? I am lost here.

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@Weathercam, I must say, in 45 years, I have never been hit by someone skiing back uphill towards me.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think people on this forum are generally lovely, it makes a nice change from many others! I’ve appreciated the views of some 4-figure folk.

Surely skiing is like driving, you watch for potential hazards ahead, that might never happen, and adjust accordingly. Unless going in a straight line surely everyone is zig zagging across the hill so you know if they’re heading left, they’ll be heading right very shortly?

I watched the video and couldn’t see what the guy in front could have done differently either I’m afraid

After all it is free

The uphill skier is responsible to avoid colliding with the downhill skier (or pedestrian) - even if the downhill skier is not only manifestly unpredictable, but is secretly contriving to put themselves in the path of the uphill skier.

The only exception is when a downhill skier suddenly lands in front of the uphill skier, having launched themselves into the path of the uphill skier by jumping from the side of the piste (or from a helicopter).

While a stationary skier at the side of a piste should look up-piste before setting off, the uphill skier STILL has a responsibility to avoid them - even if that joining skier doesn't first look up. Similarly, when pistes merge or cross, despite the fact that skiers should take care to avoid skiing in front of a skier on a merging/crossing piste, the uphill skier is still obliged to expect and take responsibility for avoiding inconsiderate skiers.

In other words, if the uphill skier had any hope in hell of avoiding the downhill skier (which includes predictive avoidance measures), they are culpable if any collision occurs. Thus, given one cannot predict a skier landing in front (from a jump), those are the only skiers one can collide with without culpability (unless there is sufficient time/distance to take evasive measures).

In the case of the original poster's video, the (downhill) snowboarder may be slightly inconsiderate, but the (uphill) skier remains responsible for avoiding them.

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@peter_h, the boarder was clearly going to turn as he'd reached the edge of the piste. Unless you expected him to stop, look left, look right, look left again and make a single traverse before repeating for another traverse?

Stop digging.

Help!!

Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping

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