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Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping, snowHeads ski forum
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Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This might provoke some discussion and I will no doubt get hung drawn and quartered.

https://vimeo.com/312773796

And I could have got much harder hitting (no pun intended) videos.

My understanding, from a number of skiers, is that a skier or snowboarder can do absolutely anything on the slope and if somebody who was upslope hits them, it is the latter's fault 100%.

That is somewhat consistent with team sports, where if a rugby player breaks somebody's neck he is not liable provided he was playing "within the rules of the game".

In car driving you have the well known similar rule.

But obviously in all these things you could create situations where you injure somebody while not being liable. If you are on the M25 and jump on the brakes, just for a laugh, you will get away with it, while perhaps killing many people.

This is why skiers (and particularly snowboarders who are by far the worst problem - partly because they tend to be young and care-free and partly because with two legs strapped together you can do much more sudden directional changes) need to look upslope before. Snowboarders also have a tendency to sit on the slope, especially just after a hill because it is easier to sit on a slope.

Curiously, the title of this forum section says: just remember the skiers' code though: look uphill before you take off and don't sit in the middle of it! which is completely the opposite of what all skiers I asked have told me.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If person A is static and about to take off then look uphill. If the person A ismoving, it is the person B upslope that has to be careful.

On my phone it looks like the person on the snowboard is moving and makes a manoeuvre so the skier has to make way.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I get what you're saying but that doesn't seem like a great example of what you're trying to convey.
It's a wide, not very steep slope aproaching a slow sign and a lift station, and he's playing around at a very low speed towards the edge. If you wanna go fast you have to do it in the right places. Anyone coming down there at such a pace that they couldn't avoid him would definitely be in the wrong in my opinion.
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OMG you had to adjust your line slightly to avoid someone on a wide not very steep slope
Thoughts and prayers
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Who is being the dickhead here? Bit confused.
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I can't really see a problem other than I'm not sure why on such a wide slope the skier is going that close to the boarder.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

This might provoke some discussion and I will no doubt get hung drawn and quartered.


Think I'm going to make a cuppa and settle in for this one. Smile
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@peter_h, Shocked The boarder did nothing wrong, in fact he manourvered so his blind side faced downhill. I think your being intolerant and a tad grumpy because you had to deviate your direction slightly. Sorry, I cannot agree with you on this example.
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HotDogger wrote:
Quote:

This might provoke some discussion and I will no doubt get hung drawn and quartered.


Think I'm going to make a cuppa and settle in for this one. Smile


I thought I would join in before I put the kettle on. Cool
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I can understand the annoyance if somebody makes a quick change of direction that's unexpected but that boarder didn't and also there was lots of space.
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Shock,horror people on a piste going in different directions, maybe we should all go in a straight line wink

Look uphill before you start, when you're moving avoid the slower/downhill skier/snowboarder. Unfortunately you will always get idiots who go to fast/out of control and dont follow the rules.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Puzzled
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thecramps wrote:
@peter_h, Shocked The boarder did nothing wrong, in fact he manourvered so his blind side faced downhill. I think your being intolerant and a tad grumpy because you had to deviate your direction slightly. Sorry, I cannot agree with you on this example.


+1.

A few seconds earlier video may be useful too - it's almost as if you're trying to hide the fact that the boarder was moving and wasn't just starting.....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
"The boarder did nothing wrong"

He didn't look upslope before doing the turn.

Maybe that is correct, in that anyone "moving" doesn't need to look upslope. Only somebody completely stationary needs to look upslope before they start moving. That's news to me, but fair enough.

The solution is easy enough - get out of bed before everybody else Smile

https://vimeo.com/313519723


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 27-01-19 12:57; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@thecramps, Hags at the guillotine. Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well that's 4 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
Are you some kind of serial boarder stalker? Puzzled
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
peter_h wrote:
He didn't look upslope before doing the turn.
Typically, I don't look upslope before turning, almost nobody does. It's why the FIS places responsibility on the uphill skier to avoid the downhill skier.

In this video the boarder was moving slowly and didn't really change direction when he popped up. The skier gave him plenty of room as he passed. Both seemed to be enjoying the slope in an appropriate manner. No harm, no foul. Really can't see what the problem is.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@HotDogger, you watched the whole thing?! You’ve got some stamina Smile I must admit after the first minute I edged it on 15 secs a time to see if there was going to be something going on.
Weather looks nice though.
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@peter_h, What is the longer video for, other than to prove you are a touch self righteous? At about 2:15, a couple of people join from your left, and despite a very wide empty piste, you veer slightly towards them, wrather than give them more space at no effort for yourself. In both videos, very modest speed not withstanding, there is no danger, but the person most likely to cause an accident is you.
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@GlasgowCyclops, +1
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If you hit someone in front of you, then your going to fast and/or to close. The dickhead in that video is the person shooting it.

The boarder has done nothing wrong, he is going across the slope. Ok he does a jump & ends up facing uphill. However, as soon as he is in view he is already pretty wide on the slope, so you really should anticipate he is going to be turning!
I come across plenty of skiers who are beginners who do similar.

As for stopping in the middle of slope. Again, it is something you see quite often with skiers who stand around.
For a snowboarder, they could have just fallen - or someone in the group has fallen. Even happens with skiers!
We also have to sit, because we cant stand like skiers with one leg higher up slope than the other! We also need a bit of a slope to get started, since we dont have them pushy things. Hence after a flat you will see a lot of borders sitting on a hill, because there may not be enough momentum to actually get to the hilly bit. I always look uphill, because my unarthodox method means I start on toe edge - so I face uphill.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 27-01-19 13:16; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@HotDogger, Weather looks nice though.


Doesn't it, Nice snow too. Madeye-Smiley
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@peter_h, aren't you the guy who will only ski wide easy blues because you cant cope with snowboarders and kids on the piste ....and doesn't want lessons? If so please please reconsider...or make sure to post where you are going in advance so we can avoid.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Sun 27-01-19 13:35; edited 1 time in total
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Two weekends ago there were big restrictions in Crans Montana ... not much open due the heavy snow, a few knots of crowding, poor viz. I’m am hyper careful, but even sticking to the side of the pistes and keeping speed down, I had two incidents of nearly dropping onto people on steeps, where they had set off and into my path, one a small child the other a debutante older person. I nearly hit the child, but managed to hockey stop around her/him. Almost the same with the adult the next day. Technically, they should not have set off without looking up. But if I had hit them, I would have absolutely regarded it as my fault. I could see what was going on, I am experienced, I can control my speed and direction. I can steer clear of risks, even.....stop. I really don’t have much patience with ‘..there was a big accident and it was the other person being a jerk...’. Sure there’s are unavoidable accidents where someone else genuinely is at fault - air crash investigation shows that this can be the case. But I would put my ego and ‘rights’ aside if it avoids an accident. Again, indeed make it clear that someone is doing something wrong - I was pretty firm with the guy who Alex had just helped up and who then dropped in on top of him 100m later - but the more experienced and competent you are, the more you should be proactive in making the piste a safe place rather than loudly asserting personal rights....
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Sorry peter h but I too think the skier wasnt "lucky" he would have been at fault if he had hit the boarder - and thats from someone who has little time for boarders in general (scared of them).
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I was expecting a bit more drama in the first video and fell alseep during the second.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Are you certain you are in control? Holding poles in one hand whilst filming using the other. I think I'd be more scared of you then any of the boarders...

A skier....
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
... Typically, I don't look upslope before turning, almost nobody does. It's why the FIS places responsibility on the uphill skier to avoid the downhill skier...

True and true.

As a snowboarder who rides significantly faster than the kid in the video I'm less likely to be caught up by people who are indignantly ignorant of their responsibility towards others.

On a beginner slope like the video shows I'd not expect anyone to either know the rules or have the ability to follow them.

Whilst I think it is entirely in my rights to carve circles around a descending skier, it would be a stupid thing to do.
At a resort, I look around all the time and never expect people to "give way" to me even if the rules demand that of them.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@philwig, I agree with all of that. I try to be aware of as much around me, and that includes behind me, as possible. I think it maybe comes from being a biker. Once your in the ambulance, being "right" won't make you better.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@peter_h, you need some lessons. Looking at your shadow in the video your not making carving turns. When you carve a turn you have a lot more control and if required you tend to stop a lot quicker if your using the edge of your ski more. I've been skiing for many years and every now and again I'll take some tuition purely to brush up my technique and to get one to one feedback. Money well spent. Dont take this as criticism just an observation.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@peter_h, well, that told you..........
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
One of the most irritating things from learning to telemark has been having several close calls from uphill skiers. I am not making the same turn shape as they expect and some end up coming far too close for comfort. It’s entirely their responsibility to avoid me, but that’s not going to make it hurt any less if they hit me.

Not every slope user will move in the way you expect. Snowboarders have a different turn shape, so do telemarkers and so do people who are learning to control their speed and line. If you don’t have the skills to control your own speed and line to give them enough room then you shouldn’t be on that slope.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
HotDogger wrote:
Quote:

This might provoke some discussion and I will no doubt get hung drawn and quartered.


Think I'm going to make a cuppa and settle in for this one. Smile


I’ll get the popcorn. Toofy Grin

Sorry @peter_h I must be missing something. Puzzled The boarder in the first clip did nothing wrong. And what was the point of the second clip, other than to state the obvious that there are less people on the piste first thing in the morning. Confused
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@snowbandit, I’m not sure the aim should be to carve every turn. It’s a particular tactic which skiers should be able to employ, but it is limited to gentle terrain. We all need to be able to vary how we steer our skis rather than just focusing on one steering element.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So, to summarise, and ignoring the personal attacks which are typical on snowheads, is the following correct:

(1) a slope user who is STATIONARY should look uphill before moving

(2) a slope user who is MOVING (no matter how slowly) does not have to look uphill before moving

What is the situation where one slope user comes up from behind you, gets in front of you, and slows down so you go into him? You were upslope at the moment of impact so you are at fault - is that correct?
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You should've seen me the other week. I lost it, ended up going WAY too fast for my liking, stuck the edges hard on, tore ACROSS the piste, started going UPHILL, and STILL had to throw in the biggest hocky stop I've ever done.

Certainly got the blood moving.

(Can't see that the boarder did anything wrong).
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@peter_h, why would you ski into someone who has overtaken you then slowed down unless you're an out of control twonk who cannot change direction and/or speed themselves? Or perhaps blind?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Nothing to see here. Move on.
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peter_h wrote:
(2) a slope user who is MOVING (no matter how slowly) does not have to look uphill before moving


i think that's an oxymoron.
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Yes but that is something I have never experienced in forty years of skiing. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it would be very strange. When my father taught me to drive he said to always expect a Jack knifed petrol tanker just round the corner with lines of school children on the sides of the road. Fortunately I have never had that occur but I still drive and ski like it could happen. So if someone cut in front of me like that I would be slowing down to give myself more space and time. Avoiding accidents is always the best policy no matter how much in the right you are

Last week I was hit from behind by a snowboarder. My turn shape and speed was as consistent as I could make them and yet he still managed to coincide with me on a very wide piste. I wasn't hurt but I'm big and bounce a small child may not of been so lucky. If I am turning round every time I turn then I may well be safer from behind by I pity the people in front of me.
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