 Poster: A snowHead
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| Personally, when trying to overtake a slower skier on catwalk, I NEVER yell "on your left/right" or click my poles. In all likelihood this will simply confuse, intimidate, or infuriate them - as maggi confirms. Pole-clicking and yelling on catwalks are recent rude habits (which originated in the USA), which go against the key rule of skiing: the slower skier has the RIGHT OF WAY, which means he/she can turn whenever and wherever he/she likes - as stated by PG. Why can some so-called expert skiers not understand this basic concept? |
I'm not suggesting for one minute that one should urge people out of one's way or expect them to move aside for you. That is unecessary and unreasonable, and I'm perfectly happy to pootle along if necessary. At my preferred speed, many people overtake me. However, one can respect the slower skier's right of way without never overtaking on a track. If I do overtake someone, I regard it as courteous and prudent to speak (not yell)/click before/as I pass. There is no reason for anyone to find it intimidating or confusing and if they find it infuriating, they should stop being so bloody chippy. Speaking or clicking on tracks is not a recent (nor a rude) 'habit'; I've been skiing (not very well) for 20 years and people have been doing it at least that long. It has never occurred to me to take offence when someone indicates that they are about to overtake me.
Thanks, Martin, but I'm not sure that I really want lessons on manners from someone who waves his poles about on tracks (it may be justified, but it sure as hell isn't polite).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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richmond, speaking, yelling or clicking are the norm in North American and people accept it - I don't do it myself though. In general people are more intelligent, thoughtful towards others and polite over there - especially in Canada.
Unfortunately, in Europe, people tend to be stupid, thoughtless and rude.
When in Rome...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tim Brown, I can do stupid, thoughtless and rude with the best of them. I would say that speaking and clicking was normal in Europe 20 years ago.
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[quote="CANV CANVINGTON"]if you wear a lid on the slopes.. you should really wear one crossing the road as well.. your heads in a lot more danger there..  [/quote]
Maybe if you shut your eyes and just got for it! I always look both ways. Never even come close to being hit by a car, lorry, bus or bike. What method do you use for crossing the road?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, its also been the norm that people don't take any notice. You just don't need to do it if you know how to properly execute a pass.
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Tim Brown, yes, fair point. I just regarded it partly as like saying 'What ho!' if you pass someone when walking on the hills and partly to say 'Here I am and shortly I'm expecting to be on your right/left'. Perhaps I shan't bother, if it causes terror and apoplectic rage.
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It's pretty common practice here
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eng_ch, I've never noticed it. Maybe I can't hear them with my helmet on 
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neilswingler, I grant you it's not that common in Hoch-Ybrig, but it's never usually busy enough to need it. We found it quite common in Meiringen-Hasliberg when we used to go there.
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eng_ch, is it regarded as rude in Meiringen-Hasliberg, or in Hoch-Ybrig for that matter?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't make any of these noises and haven't noticed many from anyone else
I did have one silly moo (female, ugly and arguably out of control) yell, "...left...," as she screamed past on a catwalk in Whistler. I naturally assumed she meant move left. So I did. It was amusing to hear her screech behind and desperately atttempt to stop. Luckily for me and unluckily for her she just managed to lose whatever steering control she had and departed the side of the piste.
No trees so nothing hurt but her dignity.
Communication requires a sender and a receiver. If you can't ensure that the message arrives completely and correctly there's generally little point sending it.
She was wrong on 4. counts.
1. It was her responsibility to avoid me.
2. She was not skiing at a speed and in adequate control that she could avoid anything, sensible or not, that I did.
3. Yelling "Left" or anything else is potentially ambiguous.
4. I was skiing as fast as I wanted to, where I wanted. (Which, BTW was not particularly slowly). No-one has a right to demand that I get out of their way if they're being impatient.
and 5. it's just rude.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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She was rude, and justice was done. Clearly yelling is not on, and 'left/right' on its own worse than useless. There's also the the language problem, at least in Europe. Nevertheless, a polite indication that you are there and intending to pass (in a safe and considerate way, with no suggestion that the other person should get out of the way) seems to me desirable. I don't usually say anything on busy tracks, but on quiet ones where the slower skier may not be expecting anyone to be anywhere near them, it seems prudent and courteous. I seem to be alone in that, however.
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No, richmond, I also click my poles just as I'm about to pass, so they know I'm there and don't get a shock when I do so or do a sudden change of direction. I certainly don't expect anyone to get out of the way, I just use a space if there is one, and I don't say left, or whatever, for precisely the reason of ambiguity David Murdoch makes clear.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have carbon poles which don't make a lot of noise. Anyway, most of the time on tracks there's snow piled up on one side and dropping off on the other, so I tend to use the natural "hard shoulders" to go past.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have always followed the basic rule. Down slope skiers have the right of way, if I'm moving faster than them I wait until they turn and head the other way ( as someone else stated). I dont see why they should get out of my way, just the same as if a faster skier wanted to past me.
Once I hit the blyes/green or a known learner route (sometimes its still a red but the only way down the mountain) I slow down and watch all around same if a run gets congested.
If you want to pass someone its up to you to do it safely.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
3. Yelling "Left" or anything else is potentially ambiguous.
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DM, very good point. You have summed up the situation well. Best to keep quiet.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Martin Bell, and with kids & raw beginners, I like your poles sticking back idea. I think i've seen some ESF folks doing the same thing andonly now realise what they were up to.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I find "pole-clicking" useful. If someone comes up behind me, I will usually move out of their way to let them past.....so pole clicking lets me know that they are coming up behind me.
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Elizabeth B, and if they move the same way at the same time?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tim Brown, I usually look over my shoulder to see where they are.....or move away from the noise!!
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Elizabeth B, not the best solution.
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No...but better than being hit.
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Elizabeth B, no, it will make the likelihood of being hit much greater. This is why the uphill skier has to give way. They didn't just make these rules up on a whim you know!
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 22-01-06 11:30; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't understand why I'm more likely to get hit? If the uphill skier is giving way, then they won't come anywhere near me, and I won't have to move out of the way.
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Elizabeth B, that's right, you won't have to move out of the way...we got there in the end.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Very interesting debate. I have been hit twice by skiers who thought they were in control but were not (one of them I was on a button lift). I am glad they hit me because if they had hit snowbird I would have lodged a ski pole up their back bottom. As PG has said earlier - its up to the skier who is behind to avoid you. Forget about clicking poles or shouting left / right - its the rules that matter not what you understand to be the rules (or local customs).
I honestly believe that resorts will soon have lots more staff assessing people and their ability for the slope they are on. Confiscation of a lift pass would sort out this very quickly - or as I have said in previous discussions introduce a system (worldwide) which tests ability before allowing idiots to progress.
There - I feel better - I'm off to the footy to watch the fighting !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having been skiing well over 30 years pole clicking at least has been going on as long as I can remember, it does tell the person in front that they are about to be passed which hopefully will get them to stop weaving from side to side whilst they are passed, shouting at someone is both rude and confusing and should only ever occur as a last resort to avoid a collision
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Why do some people imagine that making your presence known behind someone on a track is in any way incompatible with your obligation to respect their right of way?
Why do the words 'self' and 'righteous' keep coming into my mind when reading this and some other threads?
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You know it makes sense.
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| richmond wrote: |
| eng_ch, is it regarded as rude in Meiringen-Hasliberg, or in Hoch-Ybrig for that matter? |
Au contraire, it's done out of courtesy
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A lot of people here seem to be saying simply "the uphill skier should give way" as an argument against clicking poles, sticking poles out to increase your personal space on the mountain etc. Yes the uphill skier should always give the downhill skier priority, and in an ideal world they would. The problem is too many simply don't - or fail to take account or the downhill skier's perceptions. It may well be perfectly safe to pass a low intermediate on a shallow but narrow cat track, but that low intermediate in front may not have the experience to expect where to be passed, to judge a safe passing distance or to have confidence in their own ability to continue in control if their potential turning area (which will be larger than for a more advanced skier) is taken. We're not even discussing the rights and wrongs of the "give way" rule, this is all about preventive measures to protect against those who either disregard the rule or haven't the control to respect it - and related to that, how to be considerate to a slower skier you may be passing. If someone hits you from behind, you may have right of way, but you'll be just as scared/injured/dead as if you hadn't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Where possible I try to use snow to one side of a piste to pass beginners as I find in general that they don't tend to do much off piste skiing, sometimes however there is not a suitable location for doing that, when this is the case I usually pass the skier/boarder only when it's safe to do so, I still see iresponsible idiots passing slow skiers where it is often dangerous or at least distracting for a beginner to be passed though 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| Having been skiing well over 30 years pole clicking at least has been going on as long as I can remember, it does tell the person in front that they are about to be passed which hopefully will get them to stop weaving from side to side whilst they are passed, shouting at someone is both rude and confusing and should only ever occur as a last resort to avoid a collision |
Sorry, but I find clicking poles more confusing - all it tells me is someone is nearby. No idea where they are going - a click doesn't give a direction. Calling out, not shouting, can be used politely to let someone know, and it certainly isn't rude - it's like using your indicators on a car. I would normally call out, after watching to see how much of the slope the slower skier is using, then choose the widest gap, and get as near the edge as possible, while passing them in a controlled manner, and still watching where they are going as I pass.
If there's just a pole click, the skier in front has no idea what is going on, unless they turn round and look back.
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A pole click only tells someone you are behind them. If they do choose to move to one side then the person behind should just go through the gap, whichever side it is (perhaps doing a skating step to change direction), or, usually just continue through on the available gap on the very edge of the track if not (but because of the clicks not giving them a shock). If you aren't in enough control to do that you shouldn't be passing. I've certainly never bumped into anyone in these circumstances.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| you'll find yourself at the wrong end of a lawsuit. |
I knew the legal garbage wouldnt take long to raise its head.
I am not talking about buzzing people at mach 2 here i am talking about passing people safely, i just took the point of blowing it out of proportion for my side of the debate as has been done for the safety side of it. Yeah theres the FIS rules and you can quote them til your blue in the face but how many punters know and follow them? No use in having rules unless everyone is playing to them
Before you ask, no I am not some fat jester hatted blader, skiied 15 years all over the place, no accidents with other people, nor have any one of my party had an accident. And no its not the flat cap volvo driver approach of never had an accident seen thousands.
So thanks for the advice, not telling me anything i dont know or follow, i just choose not to ram it down peoples throats.
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| kruked wrote: |
| Martin Bell wrote: |
| you'll find yourself at the wrong end of a lawsuit. |
I knew the legal garbage wouldnt take long to raise its head. |
| Quote: |
In my opinion a slower skier with very little control on a cat track poses more of a threat some someone going down oneside at a higher speed due to the sheer unpredictability
Whats next speed limits and risk removal. All stems from this paranoid blame claim culture we live in. yeah skiing has an element of danger but isnt that why we love it? |
You'll be loving it a bit less if you take out one of my kids from behind. So yes, you're right. A slower skier does present a greater threat to those that think like you. But not for the reasons you have in mind.
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Think this thread as gone off the track.
It's supposed to be about the merits of wearing or not wearing an helmet.
If you want to discuss the merits on how to best signal to another skier your rapid approach towards them then may I suggets a new thread.
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It's the thread police!  Can we see your thread policing licence?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bothered am I bothered
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When has a thread ever stayed on topic
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FAQ
