 Poster: A snowHead
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| Layne wrote: |
| Or is all this just about how imperfect your feet are and/or how much "performance" you want from your boots? |
In my case, both. I have relatively unusual shape feet (short, wide, narrow ankles, history of foot pain) so custom liners make a huge difference in terms of helping to get the correct fit which provides performance and comfort. It's difficult to describe, but the first time I ever had custom liners I thought it felt like I was welded to my skis, so precisely the connection between me, my boots and my skis. Equally, I need them to be comfortable. I spend maybe 150 days a year wearing skis boots, so I'm happy to spend time and money to get the boots to work for me as much as possible.
One thing to remember is that Zipfit liners can be moved from boot to boot, being remoulded if necessary. So yes you are looking at an additional £200, but that might not be a necessary expense if you change your shells at a later date.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Was quite amazed at the difference the choice of socks made to the fit of the boot! When I had mine done in cowbridge I wore a thin pair of ski socks. Took those socks skiing and a couple of pairs of slightly thicker ones, the thicker ones made the boots feel like I'd stepped in a pair of rat traps! Thin socks back on for the rest of the week and not a hint of of bother.
Somehow the boot fitter could tell I'd had surgery in my left knee by the way I was standing. I guess you do something day in day out you'll eventually get a pretty good eye at it!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have very narrow heels and often get heel lift. I have a very precise fitting Atomic boot at about club racer spec (in fact the boot fitter I visit is a major player on the WC circuit working with many of the podium winners over the years so I kind of get the feeling that he is pretty much an expert) and I went straight to a custom foam liner. The difference was incredible. In just over 2 years I skied 25 weeks in them before they started packing down too much. Then it was just a case of getting a new pair of foam liners and I am back to a boot which is comfy all day after a couple of undo's on the first two runs, can handle off piste and yet still drive race skis through turns. With a decent performance fit you do usually need a couple of pressure points blown out but that is part of the process.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Agree with above comments about custom liners. When I got my BD factors that are now on their fourth season I also never saw the original liners. the moulding process was excruciating and I thought the chap at sole bootlab 'overcooked' it but from the first ski they were perfect. I felt like I was bolted on to my skis. Over time I have had to slightly adjust the buckle positions but apart from that they still feel great after 100+ ski days, and I think it was money well spent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@sequoiaboard, you'd better hope she's not reading this 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@KenX, can't help but agree. I can see the purpose of custom liners, lengthy fitting processes, etc. for proessional/serious skiers. But for holiday skiers, not so much.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I can see the purpose of custom liners, lengthy fitting processes, etc. for proessional/serious skiers. But for holiday skiers, not so much. |
The things that I value about custom liners (comfort and a precise hold) aren't valuable just to "serious" skiers, but will benefit anyone, from complete beginner through to pro skier. One of the guys in the hotel where I was last week (quite new to skiing, started later in life) was in a pair of rental boots that rubbed the skin off one of his ankle bones. Made his skiing unnecessarily painful.
Obviously, questions of affordability and value are individual decisions, but to say that holiday skiers don't need a good, precise fit seems an odd thing to accept. The quickest way to ruin a ski holiday is to be in boots which aren't right for your feet. IMO, boots are the most important bit of ski kit or ski clothing you'll buy, and it's worth investing time and money to get them right.
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I guess it depends on how much you value your comfort. If you've suffered excruciating pain and been unable to solve it with a standard pair of boots and liners custom ones might be worth every penny.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
One of the guys in the hotel where I was last week (quite new to skiing, started later in life) was in a pair of rental boots that rubbed the skin off one of his ankle bones. Made his skiing unnecessarily painful.
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Then why on earth weren't the boots exchanged for a different pair?
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Ellis Brigham in Cambridge fitted me too small. Like your wife I struggled, but luckily this was at MK Snozone. So i went in to Ellis Brigham there and they said I had been fitted too small.
And they started straight off with a new pair, from scratch.
Only one boot fits me - large and wide feet!
A reputable shop offering a proper fitting service should start again with a new pair.
This does highlight the importance of trying out new boots in the UK first - hopefully actually skiing...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| @KenX, can't help but agree. I can see the purpose of custom liners, lengthy fitting processes, etc. for proessional/serious skiers. But for holiday skiers, not so much. |
Rubbish! Boots that fit ANYONE properly is vital.
I assume you have totally standard feet. Most of us don't!
I had boots fitted properly after a pair of rentals in Kitzbuhel @&*^ed up my feet. (Eventually fitted properly - see my post above!)
I had custom footbeds, and the liner and shell were heat fitted. Girlfriend had her boots fitted last month. She only had the footbed. She didn't need the shell or liner forming.
But - you can't generalise about other people's feet; the custom fit process will do what is necessary for a good fit; maybe nothing, maybe lots. It depends!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Comfort and a precise fit are ideal for skiers. But I think it's important to tell a bootfitter what your priority is. I told CEM that comfort was my absolute top priority.
Performance boots are not comfortable, judging by the alacrity with which all the racers get out of the damn things as fast as they can, for example coming down from the glaciers in Tignes and Deux Alpes after out of season training.
Personally I wouldn't tolerate boots that became more and more uncomfortable over the first few days of a one week ski holiday.
Many - not all - holiday skiers can find hire boots which are comfortable and hold their feet adequately. Those of us with dodgy feet probably need the services of a good bootfitter just to be comfortable! In particular to be told exactly what boots would suit us.
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When I was fitted the relative comfort/performance fit was explained. It's a trade off... they check the gap at the back of the boot without the liner in. For race fit the gap is smaller, so the liners are much thinner and control is better...
I'm sure the first pair I was fitted would be great for racing - because when I was actually skiing at MK, my feet didn't hurt - just when I stopped.
Being 54 I don't really need a race fit, and would prefer to be able to keep the boots on all day.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sequoiaboard wrote: |
A month or so ago my wife got a pair of boots fitted here in the UK. The boot fitter spent about two hours doing everything that you would expect. My wife did keep saying that they seemed too tight and the boot fitter kept saying that they should be tight and would bed in over time.
Last week we were skiing in Italy and from the start she said that they were too tight. She was in pain and got cramp and frozen feet due to lack of blood circulation. I kept quoting the rules ( rule five) and suggested that she should man up and the fit would improve. Day 2 was as bad or worse and day 3 was horrific for her. We asked who was the best boot fitter in resort and it seems that one shop was 'The Place'
On the 3rd afternoon we went into the shop and explained the problem. There were two old chaps in there who between them probably had close to 80 years boot fitting experience. They asked my wife to take her trainers off and put her ski boots next to her socked feet. Immediately they said that the boots were too small, just by looking. They then took the liners out, turned them upside down and compared sole of liner to sole of foot. Too small. I asked ifthe shell could be stretched to accommodate her foot and that said it was just about possible but the liners would still be too small.
We're hoping to get back to the UK ski shop this week to try and get things resolved.
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle it?
I've got a suspicion that the shop will wriggle and say that as they are customised for my wife there is a 'No Returns' policy.
It isn't just the bad boot thing that is annoying, it is my wife losing 3 days of skiing during her one week of the year.
( No, am not going to name the shop on here)
Edit, a 1/2 size up proved very snug but comfortable. |
If the shop is willing to mod the boot shell (stretch / grind etc) and provide a slightly larger but good quality liner at cost (a lot of standard liners are rubbish anyway) then this could well give the best solution / compromise.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| flangesax wrote: |
| Then why on earth weren't the boots exchanged for a different pair? |
They were, eventually. But the guy was new to skiing (2nd trip I think, maybe 1st) and by the time he had mentioned the problem to his family members the damage had been done. I think it was a combination of lack of experience and a rental shop that didn't have much English that contributed to an uncomfortable pair of boots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm a recreational skier, not a performance skier, with boots bought at the old Hemel S&R 10 years ago. I got moulded footbeds, and the shells were heated. The very patient fitter then added bits of foam to the liner around my ankle bone to push out the heated shell. After several hours, the fit was finally good, tight but good. I found them to be a huge improvement over hired boots. However, gradually over the next few seasons the liners packed out a bit and I started getting the odd blister, especially when it was warm. So a bit of research later, on here, I decided to stump up the cash for some zipfit liners. That was a slightly challenging DIY fitting process and a tad painful for a few days whilst they gradually moulded themselves, but now they are soooo much more comfortable, better than when new, seriously like a pair of old slippers. I haven't looked back, my boots fit like glove and have done for the last 3 seasons. I will need new shells soon, if only because they will degrade but I suspect I'll keep the zipfits. Good initial fitting from a patient and skilled individual, good footbeds and zipfits worked for me. Of course there's a cost but over 10 years and many weeks skiing I feel the investment was worth it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Also a lot of people don't really think that you can change the gear that you've hired. I know that on my first trip I didn't even consider the possibility of being able to swap something over. It's also not uncommon for someone to complain about the boots being uncomfortable and people suggesting it's normal.
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Very true, everyone told me that ski boots were supposed to be uncomfortable - turns out that wasn't true. After a couple of weeks I also realised I could swap hire boots and so found acceptably comfortable ones. It was that which prompted me to buy my own as I realised that, for me anyways, hiring was a bit of a lottery and a fair bit of effort was required each time to get a good fit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well there we go then...
There is not a single guest that has visited us that has not been explained all of the above either by me or the hire shop.
If you honestly don't think that ski boots should not remove your skin and that you can't possible change them then maybe that is just karma.
There is a difference between being uncomfortable and committing assault!
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| flangesax wrote: |
| There is not a single guest that has visited us that has not been explained all of the above either by me or the hire shop. |
Not everyone stays with you though  It's hit and miss with hire shops, but IME most only suggest the option of switching if the person raises particular concerns.
Agree that you shouldn't have the skin coming off, but once a blister has formed it's always a risk that it will happen, and it's easy to end up with a blister in a day if the boots don't fit right.
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| Quote: |
Not everyone stays with you though
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Well they blooming well should!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Update.
Went back to the shop today and the senior bootfitter there said my wife's feet were on the cusp between two sizes so she was given the smaller pair. They are going to remove some material in front of the toes and blow out the shell around the toes. Will report back after next visit.Hope we get this resolved as we're going to VT later in the season.
Edit.. The shop were really friendly and helpful. They seemed keen to do whatever it takes to sort the boots out.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 10-02-16 20:08; edited 1 time in total
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^ sounds like a plan
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All sorted now. Boots changed for the next size up. Excellent customer service. Wife happy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@sequoiaboard, great news! Really is time to name them (unless I missed it hidden in the three pages) as that sort of service should be applauded.
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@NickyJ, Yes, time to name them... Snow and Rock, Exeter.
Really couldn't ask for better customer service.
I had a 'heel lift' issue with my boots (which I bought elsewhere) and a couple of months ago they completely sorted that out for me as well at a charge so low it could be considered free.
Younger daughter got boots fitted there in Nov before her season in VT. She's delighted with them.
So yes, I would absolutely recommend S&R in Exeter for ski boots.
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You know it makes sense.
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+1
Had my boots fitted there a couple of seasons ago and the girl was really patient and helpful. Boots are really nice too, the only time they give me trouble is when I've done them up too tight.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My niece a teenage was sold a pair of 26.5 boots at home in the UK, after one day of skiing in them we took her to the ski shop on the mountain and fitted for a pair of 23.5. Apparently they felt comfortable, new ones felt 2 small for the first couple of days but they are OK now.
Never letting her or sis shopping for ski gear again.
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FAQ
