Wife sold a pair of boots 1/2 a size too small

A snowHead

A month or so ago my wife got a pair of boots fitted here in the UK. The boot fitter spent about two hours doing everything that you would expect. My wife did keep saying that they seemed too tight and the boot fitter kept saying that they should be tight and would bed in over time.
Last week we were skiing in Italy and from the start she said that they were too tight. She was in pain and got cramp and frozen feet due to lack of blood circulation. I kept quoting the rules ( rule five) and suggested that she should man up and the fit would improve. Day 2 was as bad or worse and day 3 was horrific for her. We asked who was the best boot fitter in resort and it seems that one shop was 'The Place'
On the 3rd afternoon we went into the shop and explained the problem. There were two old chaps in there who between them probably had close to 80 years boot fitting experience. They asked my wife to take her trainers off and put her ski boots next to her socked feet. Immediately they said that the boots were too small, just by looking. They then took the liners out, turned them upside down and compared sole of liner to sole of foot. Too small. I asked ifthe shell could be stretched to accommodate her foot and that said it was just about possible but the liners would still be too small.
We're hoping to get back to the UK ski shop this week to try and get things resolved.
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle it?
I've got a suspicion that the shop will wriggle and say that as they are customised for my wife there is a 'No Returns' policy.
It isn't just the bad boot thing that is annoying, it is my wife losing 3 days of skiing during her one week of the year.

( No, am not going to name the shop on here)

Edit, a 1/2 size up proved very snug but comfortable.

A snowHead

Hopefully you got them from one of the fitters who offer some form of Fit Guarantee, in which case there shouldn't be an issue.

However, if you didn't I guess you're relying on their "goodwill for customer service"

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

What sort of fit did you ask for out of curiosity? I mean, for racing boots for example, or for tourist cruising?

Also, might sound funny, but I always found that wearing very thin socks (as thin as ordinary dress socks) was necessary for the first few days with new boots. I guess you thought of that. Any sign of the liners packing in at all over the three days?

Finally, was the 1/2 size up the same model? Was there much difference in the space behind the foot in the shell without the liner? NehNeh

Respect for not naming the shop before talking to them by the way. Good luck with resolving your problem.

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Sorry, I'd like to be controversial here and call BS on the resort fitters!! Anyone who fits boots by eye by comparing foot to external of shell isn't a boot fitter!!

That said, I'm not saying the boots aren't too small, so nothing really helpful to add to the thread - I'll get back under my rock now Embarassed

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Must be Edge & Wax.

After all it is free

@sequoiaboard, glad you have that sorted. Maybe you could have taken the opportunity to have enlightened her as to the one true edge? snowHead

Much more comfy boots Laughing

Wow. That seems a pretty good guarantee from Edge & Wax.

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My twopenneth. I'm not a boot fitter, but I'm very fussy about my boots not feeling like buckets after the inners bed down.
- Ski boots do bed in over time and 3 days is not enough. How does it feel when skiing with the foot buckles undone or buckled as loosely as possible and the ankle buckles only done up enough to stiffen the boot enough to ski?
- many half sizes are made by adding an inner sole, the shell being exactly the same size. Of course, your half size difference could also be an actual full size difference in the shell.
- best way to check the shell size, in my experience, is to take the inner out of the shell, put your foot in the shell, slide it to the front and then see how many fingers you can get down behind your heel. I'm slightly over a finger and I like my boots very tight. Anything less than a finger and a half and it's probably genuinely too small.
- the "walls" of the liner are curved and the sole can be smaller than your wife's foot in a boot that fits. Inside the liner goes a footbed and this raises your foot to a wider/longer part of the liner. I call BS on the resort shop too.
- If you stretch the shell, surely the liner is stretchy too? Sounds like another BS from the resort shop? Maybe they wanted to rent/sell you some replacements?
- Boots feeling too small can be caused by the width not being right, at the heel as well as other parts of the foot, as well as the length. The UK shop will likely offer to blow certain parts of the boot out for you, depending on where the pain is. I would take this offer on the guarantee that if it doesn't work you go half a size up.

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I kinda agree. I work in IT and can still look at a personal laptop and tell what kind of porn they have saved on it..... Laughing

@snoozeboy,

her feet still went blue with the two bottom clips undone....she doesn't have bad circulation btw.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@sequoiaboard, do you know if the "half size up" is a shell with a different size or not- My idea is that ski boots aren't made in half sizes but the liners for each half size are pre-streached differently- with most brands splitting on the whole and Scrapa on the half (or something like that).

Have you measured the Mrs foot with a ruler- length in cm to nearest half = mondo size an done shell check.

I also say BS to resort shop....(at least from the pov of they just looked)

A snowHead

When you go back for refitting I would look at a lot of what Snoozeboy said with the boot fitter.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm backing the shop.
It is possible to eye size and fit.
It isn't rocket science to be able to very accurately judge the length of a foot and then comparing this nugget of info with the shell size that you probably know due to recognising the make and model of boot etc... etc...
It really isn't that much of a dark art that is often presented on this site.

To instantly negate such experience from these chaps is ridiculous.

The boot was requested to be an easy/comfy fit, so the bedding in and buckle/strap bits and bobs becoming a little more secondary in this situation.

How can BS be called on the shop when you expect boot liners to be stretched? (I'm ready to be enlightened on that one)

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I'd echo the comment that it can take more than 3 days for new boots (or more accurately, new liners) to bed in. My girlfriend got new boots from CEM a couple of years ago. First week she wore them she complained bitterly that they were too tight (which clearly was my fault as I took her to CEM), but she stuck with them. We skied later that season and half way through the week I asked how her boots were? She was a bit puzzled at the question as she didn't remember that they had been painful for the first week of use. She's used them now for about six weeks and is very comfortable in them.

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A really good fit often involves:

A) a lot of pain and discomfort as the liner packs down. I couldn't ski in my present boots for more than an hour when they were new. High end race boots have thinner liners so they don't take so long to pack down, but they are colder and not designed for all day use without unbuckling at every spare moment.

B) return visits to the bootfitter. You cannot expect everything to work out from an initial visit.

C) a lot of experimenting with the buckles. Those microadjusters are there for a reason.

+1 on the discussion about half sizes. For most boots going from (say) 270 to 275 doesn't change the shell. Whereas going from 265 to 270 means a full size up on the shell.

Any discussion about boot fit also needs to address the fact that boot length and boot width are different aspects of size. A boot which is too short is ususlly pretty obvious. The toes press against the end of the boot even when pushing the shin against the tongue. That situation can be confirmed by doing a shell fit. If that's the case, your bootfitter is hopeless. If however the problem is a question of width then there is hope, although it might be that a wider boot in the same length might be better.

Boot fitting takes time and patience!

After all it is free

Not in most cases.

Only if you think you are the special one, not just special.

That said I still can't feel all my toes from my ""fit like a glove" boots.

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My experience with fitted boots was more or less identical to your wife's. Frozen feet and awful pain after 2-3 days, could barely walk after taking them off. Managed to ski on them but it was very uncomfortable. This year with the same boots they have been fine though, still a bit cold but nowhere near as bad. I kept the bottom clasps either open or barely fastened. They do get better as they bed in. I wore them around the hours for a couple of hours each night before going which probably helped a bit, it would be worth trying that when you get home just so see if they seem to be improving, if not then go back to the shop.

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A wise man said: You won't ski as well with boots that aren't a perfect fit. But you won't ski at all with boots that hurt.

If they hurt, take them back and demand your money back. Too much BS about boot fitting these days. It isn't rocket science.

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@telford_mike, it might not be rocket science but it's still not a well known or practised art.

'art'

You know it makes sense.

There is a lot of noise in this thread. The key point is you need to go back to the shop and get some work done on the boots. That is not unusual. I've been told that depending on the approach of the shop/fitter 20-60% of boots will need some kind of follow up fitting work (stretch etc). I'm sure they will sort them out. It does feel that they have gone for a performance fit more than a comfort fit but none of us can tell over the internet.

I'm a bit surprised that the shop in resort hasn't done a shell fit (take the liner out, put the foot in slid to the front, see how many fingers you can get between the heel and the shell) - that is the key on length. I take the point that the liner could still be tight (I have had that) but it is the shell pressure that causes bad pain and you can thin out the toe of the liners if necessary. I think the uk shop will find a solution.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

This sounds very familiar to me. I laboured for 3 seasons in boots that were too small. The fitters in resort said the same thing to me about stretching the boot but that the liners would always be too small. After three seasons of discomfort I bit the bullet & bought new boots from them. The liners in my too small boots had started to come apart at the seams where my feet had been stretching them.

A snowHead

Everyone is talking about liners bedding in, and stretching, etc. But surely none of that will help the situation if the boot is actually and truly too short for the foot? And maybe that is what the old guys were looking at, regardless of any other aspect of fit?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

No desire to air my views on how important bootfitting is, and I think it probably varies depending on the individual.

But a couple of points I'ld make, just in an effort to help:

If the boot is too short you're in trouble as you cannot elongate a shell in the fitting process. There are a couple of tricks like grinding/shaving the liner at the toe, or inserting a lift under the liner at the heel to re position the foot in the shell, but the effect is always going to be limited. The OP has been advised to do a 'standard' shell check, it would be interesting to know the results.

If the boot is the correct length but currently too tight then there is a world of options for the shop to try in resolving this, from basic buckle adjustments, buckle repositioning, shell stretches, right through to replacing the liner with a aftermarket custom product (which are often low volume). So go back to the retailer and let them have a look.

Final observation: In the case of the 'half size up' being say 24 to 24.5 it is often just a thinner footbed (hence the fact that the liner would be labelled 24.0-24.5, go on all of you, if you don't believe me have a look). So try a thinner footbed.

Hope that helps.

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I know boots have to be 'worn in'
I know boots get more comfortable after use.
I know old boots need replacing.

What I'd like to know is, in the year 2016 with bright young and not so young folk out there with degrees in
Materials technology engineering etc etc do we still have to suffer when "wearing in" a pair of ski boots?

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I've just bought new Atomic boots that are heat mouldable (inners and shell). The moulding itself was NOT pleasant AT ALL. I had pressure points on the heels and on one toe. Before moulding some padding was added to these areas. However, after the boots cooled down, the fit was great! It was good enough for me to start wondering the next if the boots aren't too big (shell checked again and they're not). Might consider changing boots sooner now. My previous boots were 16 years old, the liners were gone and heels and toes were worn off but I postponed getting new ones as I didn't want to go through breaking in new boots.The new boots (Atomic Redster Pro 120 - sugested by CEM - are even warmer than my old Lange Comp 120)
As I understand it, Salomon developed the moulding shell for themselves and Atomic so their mouldable boots should be the same.
Not sure it helps the OP, but it could help someone looking to shorten the path to comfi boots

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@sequoiaboard, can you get your wife to do the shell test as @jedster, mentions a bit higher up and report back to how much gap there is?

Pic/a bit more info on what to do here http://gearx.com/blog/knowledge/skiing/how-to-size-ski-boots/

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@boredsurfin, 3D printed boots will happen. 3D printed insoles are already available. They still won't be as comfy as your sheepskin house slippers though because a few kilos of plastic at the end of your leg isn't natural. I have friends who work behind a desk for 50 weeks a year and they are surprised their ski boots hurt when they haven't worn them or been to a snowdome in the entire year since the last ski trip. These are intelligent people.

After all it is free

Might be easier to replace the wife.

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Help!!

Wife sold a pair of boots 1/2 a size too small

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