 Poster: A snowHead
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| jimmer wrote: |
| A friend snapped that on an iPhone, so no landing, I did actually over rotate a bit, but got the next one. Also, that is from yesterday, I do have better shots. |
whats all that white stuff 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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went on a warren smith course a few years ago and got picked along with 5 others to ski with him for the week out of about 60 of us who did the test run to determine groups.....wished i'd skiied crap as i've never been so knackered after a week's skiing zzz
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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eddiethebus, cause it's about skiing and once you start looking at all the different things you can do on skis it brings in a lot of extraneous skill sets. You may as well say "I'm amazed they don't have any mountaineering capabilities in the scale".
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| meh wrote: |
| eddiethebus, cause it's about skiing and once you start looking at all the different things you can do on skis it brings in a lot of extraneous skill sets. You may as well say "I'm amazed they don't have any mountaineering capabilities in the scale". |
I can see what you mean. I personally feel though to be a well rounded skiier or snowboarder you have to be able to display a certain level of competency in different disciplines.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eddiethebus, ski de fond?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Park is for 16yr olds, and 43 year olds that think they're still hip and 16, and need to hike their pants up.
Don't see why I need to do that or off piste or back country or tree dodging or telemarking switch or sliding sideways with both feet tethered to the same plank or.... to go +1 on the IO or other scale.
Just have fun, and get out and ski what you enjoy.
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6-7 on that scale for me.
Quite happy with that at this stage, given I have only had 3 ski trips. My last trip to Banff saw me skiing blacks/moguls and off piste shortcuts though it might not have looked pretty to everyone else I made it in one piece.
Still learning and happy to have lessons. 
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
| I can see what you mean. I personally feel though to be a well rounded skiier or snowboarder you have to be able to display a certain level of competency in different disciplines. |
The more comprehensive an ability scale becomes the more difficult it is for skiers to see themselves clearly at any particular level. The scale is used for skiers to give an approximate indication of their ability (on a 'best fit' basis) when booking ski coaching, rather than a means of describing their overall snow sports ability. I suppose if we ran freestyle courses (or nordic, snowboard, etc) then we'd have have a different ability scale, but until then keeping it as straightforward as possible works for us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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v1cky24, Is that 3 weeks or 3 trips of 2-3 weeks?
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rob@rar, it's difficult for skiers to see themselves clearly in any event. That's why I only answered on the basis of what your esteemed colleague last said on the subject. Also, it does vary - I have every expectation of being downgraded in a couple of weeks! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have skied about 4 weeks in total, improving, trying hard at my parallel skiing. Most important thing is I love it. I was 40 before I had my first ski trip so my only regret is that I didn't come to it earlier in life,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was in the "Advanced" group for lessons with ucpa over Christmas (http://www.action-outdoors.co.uk/activities/activity-details/detail?ActivityID=23, for descriptions). I think that puts me around Level 7 on IO's scale.
I like the ucpa description of what you'd do at that level. At ucpa you'll be going side-country, spend time in the snow park and skiing all over the resort. Inside Out offers a skills clinic or performance clinic.
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I'd be interested to know the correlation between time spent on slope/ time spent in lessons/ perceived level
I still find it a shame that people see to think they've 'got it' and don't need lessons. Bloody dangerous.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm a 8.75! I'm definitely better than an 8 but not absolutely every aspect of a 9, I would say. For me the videos didn't match the written descriptions. A lot of the 8/9 skiers looked like me, I thought they would look more dynamic.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I can be anywhere from 7 to moments of 11. It is however amazing how a few beers can improve my skiing level during Apres Ski.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've had a read of the last 8 or so pages, but didn't start from the beginning. I'll take a look from the start though...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nadenoodlee,
| Quote: |
the correlation between time spent on slope/ time spent in lessons/ perceived level
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For me little correlation with level as perceived by me. I just know I'm getting better with more slope and lesson time.
I suppose that if you definitely want to confine yourself to pootling around gently on blues, and you can stop safely and not get too tired, then there's no need to keep taking lessons, is there?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sixspeed wrote: |
| sarah wrote: |
| Megamum wrote: |
| I am somewhat reminded of the chain of thought that runs - males skiers generally overestimate their ability and whilst ladies tend to under-estimate. sixspeed, are you a guy or a gal? |
+1
sixspeed a solid level 8 after two weeks on snow? That would be amazing |
I suppose reading the description on IO's site it seems achievable given how quickly I felt I progressed before. With 9 hours of one-to-one tuition booked across the week I'd hope to at least get myself up to a confident 7, though no harm in aiming high  |
One of the sad truths of any sport / skill is that the more you learn the more you realise you don't know...
I have skied for many years with lots of weeks experience - the recent week with Inside Out made very clear to me that I have a certain level of ability - and a comprehensive lack of technique!
The difficulty with level statements we read is that they are generic / broad-brush to help a company position people into groups for instruction - on that course it was equally clear that it is not until you see someone skiing that you start to understand their level...
Also - it can be difficult to really unpick what is meant - though once you are at that level it is more obvious...
so, one of the Level 8 statements is:
| Quote: |
| I can comfortably ski all the pisted runs on the mountain under control |
To someone starting out that might be read as:
I can get down any run without being scared / killing myself
whereas actually I suspect it reflects a considerably higher level of skill:
- comfortably (so well within your capabilities - i.e. you are of a higher level...)
- ski (i.e. technically competent, not just arrive at the bottom of the slope because the skis took you down there)
- all the pisted runs on the mountain (have you seen some - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/4444186/The-worlds-scariest-ski-runs-terror-at-the-top.html / http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=103733)
- under control - ahh the difficult bit
so, while it can beasy to read it and think yes, that's me - it is onften only a lot further on your journey that you realise it is not...
an generally speaking 2 weeks on snow is not going to get someone anywhere near that level
my godson aged 11 last year with a similar set of instruction / experience to you, but with fab balance, very sporty and no fear - was probably just hitting level 5 - and I was seriously impressed by such rapid development...
but this is also where it is important to not care about levels - just get out there, have fun, lots of good instruction and enjoy a great sport!
Alasdair
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
I'd be interested to know the correlation between time spent on slope/ time spent in lessons/ perceived level
I still find it a shame that people see to think they've 'got it' and don't need lessons. Bloody dangerous. |
re-badge the lessons as coaching and people become more likely to participate
that said though, not everyone wants to get better, some are happy to just go up and down pistes to the best of there ability, spending time with family and friends. It doesnt make them dangerous.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I suspect those with a high proportion of time on the slopes spent in lessons would place themselves lower on the list than those who havent. Whether it is through modesty or a more realistic/ experienced view would be hard to measure.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
| ...that said though, not everyone wants to get better, some are happy to just go up and down pistes to the best of there ability, spending time with family and friends. It doesnt make them dangerous. |
Skiing should be about having fun and enjoying time in the mountains, often with friends or family. In no way should the constant striving for improvement be seen as mandatory (although some people will derive a lot of fun from that process as well as enjoying their skiing more as they get better).
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If you only ski groomers your Not really any good at all.
SKIING GROOMERS SHOULD BE LAST ON YOUR LIST of being able to Master.
If you cant feel or control your skis in
Bumps
Deep POW
Steep Chutes (jump turns)
Breakable Crud
Slick Ice
Heavy Slush
Skin Up ( Earn your Turns)
High Altitude Skiing (4500-8000M)
Old Style Free Skiing without Helmets,Backpacks etc!
All of the above in Flat Light you have not really got pass kinder ski school..
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rob@rar, I agree it shouldn't be mandatory but I do feel it should be actively encouraged, at least to a basic level of control that results in a safer environment for all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nadenoodlee, the skiers (and other slope users) I see that are the most dangerous generally have enough technique to get down pistes safely. It is a lack of responsibility towards other slope users they lack, and I'm not sure that ski lessons are the most effective way of instilling respect for others...
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| I suspect those with a high proportion of time on the slopes spent in lessons would place themselves lower on the list than those who havent. Whether it is through modesty or a more realistic/ experienced view would be hard to measure. |
I think the key is what akirk said above about the scale is there to help a company selling lessons to group people.
when you spend a lot of time on the hill skiing and snowboarding with people better than you and watching a lot (I watch A LOT!) of video's you quickly realise how very average you are. If your comparing yourself to joe blogs pootling down a red I guess its easy to think your advanced.
when your trying to follow someone double backfliping a 30ft cliff you very quickly re-evaluate your advanced status!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| akirk wrote: |
| sixspeed wrote: |
| sarah wrote: |
| Megamum wrote: |
| I am somewhat reminded of the chain of thought that runs - males skiers generally overestimate their ability and whilst ladies tend to under-estimate. sixspeed, are you a guy or a gal? |
+1
sixspeed a solid level 8 after two weeks on snow? That would be amazing |
I suppose reading the description on IO's site it seems achievable given how quickly I felt I progressed before. With 9 hours of one-to-one tuition booked across the week I'd hope to at least get myself up to a confident 7, though no harm in aiming high |
One of the sad truths of any sport / skill is that the more you learn the more you realise you don't know...
I have skied for many years with lots of weeks experience - the recent week with Inside Out made very clear to me that I have a certain level of ability - and a comprehensive lack of technique!
The difficulty with level statements we read is that they are generic / broad-brush to help a company position people into groups for instruction - on that course it was equally clear that it is not until you see someone skiing that you start to understand their level...
Also - it can be difficult to really unpick what is meant - though once you are at that level it is more obvious...
so, one of the Level 8 statements is:
| Quote: |
| I can comfortably ski all the pisted runs on the mountain under control |
To someone starting out that might be read as:
I can get down any run without being scared / killing myself
whereas actually I suspect it reflects a considerably higher level of skill:
- comfortably (so well within your capabilities - i.e. you are of a higher level...)
- ski (i.e. technically competent, not just arrive at the bottom of the slope because the skis took you down there)
- all the pisted runs on the mountain (have you seen some - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/4444186/The-worlds-scariest-ski-runs-terror-at-the-top.html / http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=103733)
- under control - ahh the difficult bit
so, while it can beasy to read it and think yes, that's me - it is onften only a lot further on your journey that you realise it is not...
an generally speaking 2 weeks on snow is not going to get someone anywhere near that level
my godson aged 11 last year with a similar set of instruction / experience to you, but with fab balance, very sporty and no fear - was probably just hitting level 5 - and I was seriously impressed by such rapid development...
but this is also where it is important to not care about levels - just get out there, have fun, lots of good instruction and enjoy a great sport!
Alasdair |
Hi Alasdair,
I do see where you are coming from. Reading it and thinking, yes I can do that confidently, is different to being able to do it competently!
I must admit, when I read this thread and saw some replies, I just quickly went over the IO site, looked at the levels, and picked where I thought I fell and added where I thought I could be after another trip and some lessons. I should add, right now I still feel level 6 is where I was at the end of my trip last year, an early intermediate. Mostly this is down to the reference on their description of level 5 in using snowplough turns, which I don't recall using at all after a few days. I am just probably rather ambitious (naive!) to think that my progression up the levels will be as quick as I'd like to think though! I also suspect, that after 9 months off the snow, I will likely be pretty unlikely to jump straight on a pair of sticks and pick up exactly where I left off! That in itself, probably means I'm not a true "6"...
This thread is the first time I've bothered to reference any levels and try and "pigeon-hole" my ability though. When I referred to any "level" when booking my TDC tuition for my trip next month I described myself as a beginner, as I still feel I am.
Like you add though, it isn't about levels to me (at this stage). I turned down skiing holidays for many years (preferring to spend money going somewhere hot), but succumbed to pressure to go with some friends last Feb, and came back wishing I'd done it so much sooner. I can't wait to get back out to the Alps, and fun and enjoying myself (safely!) is exactly all I have in mind!
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 13-01-14 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stanton wrote: |
High Altitude Skiing (4500-8000M)
All of the above in Flat Light you have not really got pass kinder ski school.. |
See you in kinder ski school, with an oxygen tank.
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Not as good as I could have been. I started late and have picked it up reasonably quick. But had I started earlier before the fat and fear set in I reckon I could have been pretty good.
Story of my life
*wanders of singing Je ne regrette rien*
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You know it makes sense.
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Umm, level 1 please!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Level 7 for me. All down to fitness and leg strength rather than any natural ability! After a few beers, I might claim level 8 on piste.
I ski vicariously now. The Little Snowploughs are advancing towards double digits at an alarming (though pleasing, given the ££££ we've spent on lessons!) rate of knots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| sixspeed wrote: |
| ...Mostly this is down to the reference on their description of level 5 in using snowplough turns, which I don't recall using at all after a few days... |
this is a good example - the fact that you are not skiing with obvious beginner snowploughs may not mean that you are skiing parallel - there are so many bits to skiing which come together as we improve...
| sixspeed wrote: |
| Like you add though, it isn't about levels to me (at this stage). I turned down skiing holidays for many years (preferring to spend money going somewhere hot), but succumbed to pressure to go with some friends last Feb, and came back wishing I'd done it so much sooner. I can't wait to get back out to the Alps, and fun and enjoying myself (safely!) is exactly all I have in mind! |
exactly right! and ski in March / April and you can have the heat as well
for me the real eye-opener going on the Inside-Out course in December wasn't my level / what I needed to learn (I was quite realistic about it and in fact came back thinking that I might be a better skier than I had thought!) but the need for good technique - I was probably one of the most experienced in terms of time on the mountain but there were skiers there who had only been skiin a couple of years, but who had done so with lots of indoor and outdoor sessions / coaching with Scott & Rob - and their technique and understanding of skiing was so much more advanced than mine - it made me really 'get' the need for good tuition in a way I had never really understood before...
Alasdair
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think I'm an average skier but with a differant attitude to most.
For me I know I'll never win any down hill medals or be of a pro standard, so I just enjoy it, I'm not interested in getting to the bottom quickly.
I'm interested in getting to the bottom and haveing as much fun as I can doing it, i did a Basi course in the army, and have pretty much skied ever since, I never do black runs, I really don't see the point in them( they are just there because that's how mountains are shaped ) other than for one skiers ego to tell people " I skied a black run"
And I wish ski instructors would take people from one side of the piste to the other, and firmly believe you shouldn't be allowed off the lower slopes until you can show you can STOP under control, and can demonstrate a degree of acceptance of other people around
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^^the video feedback certainly was an eyeopener.
The camera doesn't lie. Not only does it show how back seat you are, it also shows how doing 1 thing "fixes" it (or in some cases makes it worse).
Agree about the pigeon holing. Once you can get around the mountain, it's more about what you can do, what you can't do, which areas you want to improve, which types of terrain/snow you don't like or even avoid. IMHO.
And every time I want to improve bumps, the snow is flat.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Esdel wrote: |
| I never do black runs, I really don't see the point in them [...] other than for one skiers ego to tell people "I skied a black run". |
I think you're looking at the world somewhat backwards there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If I'm skiing through a learning zone I'm probably top 10%, if I'm where I like to be I'm lucky to break 50%, if I'm where I don't necessarily like to be but might find myself because it's character building (e.g. icy irregular mammoth moguls or very firm no fall zone) I'd be lucky to scrape bottom 10%
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I started fairly young (13 I think) and got really into the dry slope racing scene in my teens and had some great tuition and ski holidays along the way. Enough skiing and training to easily reach the lower BASI levels, but I never pursued it. Then I went to Uni and really lost touch with skiing until my late 20's when I took it up again on a recreational level. I was pleased to find that I hadn't lost my ability and years of cycling had retained my fitness and by my early 30's I was skiing better than ever. Then I got married and lost touch again for a few more years! Finally I got my wife hooked on skiing and we bought a holiday apartment in Canada in 2006 and since then we've been skiing at least a month per season. My confidence in deep snow and trees has seriously improved in the last 7 years and now in my mid 40's I feel like I've reached a peak. The next challenge will be keeping up with the kids when they really get going!
So in summary I'm a decent recreational skier, probably about as good as most people get without being professionally involved or a lifelong local. It always amazes me how many levels there actually are above mine. The pro freeriders in particular really blow me away.
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| akirk wrote: |
for me the real eye-opener going on the Inside-Out course in December wasn't my level / what I needed to learn (I was quite realistic about it and in fact came back thinking that I might be a better skier than I had thought!) but the need for good technique - I was probably one of the most experienced in terms of time on the mountain but there were skiers there who had only been skiin a couple of years, but who had done so with lots of indoor and outdoor sessions / coaching with Scott & Rob - and their technique and understanding of skiing was so much more advanced than mine - it made me really 'get' the need for good tuition in a way I had never really understood before...
Alasdair |
I don't disagree with that. I attribute my accelerated learning and confidence purely to the one-to-one lesson I had with Scott at Hemel before I left for Tignes last year.
Up to that point I'd had the same number of lessons as a friend that was in the exact same situation as me (never skied before), who also came on the same trip. We had the same number of group lessons at MK/Hemel, but I had the additional 3 hour 1-2-1. The difference between us on the holiday was stark, in that he stuck with snowplough turns all week and was very cautious down all the runs we went on. The lessons with Scott though, pushed me very quickly into trying to adopt a parallel turn and skiing on my downhill leg/foot.
It's the reason that I've booked up more one-to-one time on next month's trip too. I couldn't believe the difference it made, and was a real eye opener, as its something I've generally shied away from in other pastimes.
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| Quote: |
And I wish ski instructors would take people from one side of the piste to the other
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I guess that should say "wouldn't" ?
I hate edge-to-edgers 
I skied a black run yesterday because it was the only way to get where I wanted. Wasn't as much carnage as I'd feared, given that a black run seemed to be the only link to that sector. But it was packed full of people that didn't particularly like the conditions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| It always amazes me how many levels there actually are above mine. The pro freeriders in particular really blow me away. |
spot on. you could actually apply this to any sport in the world. Everyone has a level and then there are those who are the best and all others pale into insignificance.
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| Esdel wrote: |
| I never do black runs, I really don't see the point in them [...] other than for one skiers ego to tell people "I skied a black run". |
I think you're looking at the world somewhat backwards there. |
if anyone ever feels the need to use the words "i skiied a black run" in respect to an ability reference then there either a beginner or a small child
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FAQ
