Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

A snowHead

Jesus H Christ. One of the attractions of Snowheads has always been the topic meandering of threads but this is getting ridiculous. Can any mod please move the posts that don't even mention the possibility or not of a foreign ski holiday in 20/21 to the main Covid thread.

A snowHead

When we do get a vaccine, there is already the infrastructure to deliver it to the most vulnerable groups. It can be done in the same way that the flu jab is already done. If the effects are short lived and it needs an annual vaccine, same scenario.

As a carer for 2 elderly parents, I would hope that I would be able to get mine at the same time as they get theirs. This has not always been easy with flu. As I am under 60, I could not get it from my GP. I have got it from Boots for the last few years.

Extending the flu jab to other age groups is a good idea.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

The Vaccine should be compulsory except if there is an existing medical condition that would exclude it. Anybody refusing should have restrictions placed on their movements and/or work.

I would not complain it this virus was made notifiable, with severe penalties for anyone knowingly risking infecting others.

No one should be allowed to enter the UK unless they can provide proof.

It is likely to be a pre-requisit when visiting most other Countries anyway, Ski holidays or otherwise. (Just to keep @robboj happy.)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@qwerty360, very good point.

But I would also argue that another two key points that are pretty much ignored by a few posters above are:
- impact on the healthcare system of not having lockdowns - in some countries this could be catastrophic, and it's all very nice to expect that doctors and nurses take it all in their stride, but what happens when they can't anymore?
- poorly understood reasons for the geographic / country variation between transmission rates and death rates - which means that drawing conclusions across borders can go very wrong

Generally, I think a lot of anti-lockdown people have a very biased way of looking for info and selecting arguments that they refer to. It's not that there aren't any reasons to have some optimism / hope that Covid isn't as bad as feared / consider actively the lockdown intensity. It's that the weight of evidence is not on that side of the argument, especially looking at what's happening now.

Plus we get the scare of governments wanting to take away all our freedoms. Governments can't wait to relax these restrictions, it was clear in the summer...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@rob@rar, How would you deal with those that refuse the vaccine, but also refuse to follow the rules you suggest?

You would never know if the person next to you on the bus/train has refused. You could, unwittingly pass on the virus to someone unable to have the vaccine.

Personally, I don't think we are tough enough on those breaking the rules now.

Anyone having an illegal gathering can (should) be fined, but we should also fine everyone in attendance. I would suggest a minimum £1k, doubling with every subsequent offence.

snow reports

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@boyanr, I wasn't suggesting that you coughed over other people, or never washed your hands.

I was asking an hypothetical question regarding myself.

Just for this discussion, assume that the victim in this case was somebody close to you

Should I be rewarded by having a "normal" life, and allowed to go on holiday, having completely disregarded the health of the rest of the population, and probably caused the death of that person?

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Came here for advice about a hopeful Xmas ski trip Puzzled

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I don't think anyone should be forced to have the vaccine – that will just dump fuel on the fires of the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. The fact that they have got so far in the first place is a failure of education and understanding – people should be persuaded to have the vaccine because it is of benefit to society as a whole, as well as to them.

By the way, the UK lost its measles-free status last year: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2213764-the-uk-has-lost-its-world-health-organization-measles-free-status/

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Just rx confirmation that my Easyjet flight from Bristol to Innsbruck 11/12 has been cancelled.

I also have a flight Easyjet Gatwick to Innsbruck 24/12 no longer showing up on their schedule, so Im assuming that one will also get canned.

So they are obviously thinking that this Winter isnt going to happen.

Ironically, we were going to change our 11/12 dates, and drive over, so that was a result.

snow reports

@LaForet, where have I described a conspiracy theory?? You've clearly not read what I've written. I've said that the official toll is questionable because of the criteria they use which are publicly stated: a toll which has already had to be revised down once because they were counting anyone who had ever had a +ve C19 test that subsequently died as a 'C19 death'. If we are going to do such damaging things on the basis of cases and deaths then should we not make sure we are counting the right thing, and accurately?

No, you're not listening: the deaths from other things are inevitable consequences of organic life and also our choices. Our bodies wear out and hearts stop and brains become ruined by dementia. We choose to eat 'badly' and to drive cars but the benefits in our minds outweigh the consequences. We were free to choose. C19 is no different and the measures we are taking are costing OTHER lives. This is best explained by the simple concept of triage. If you are in a first aid post and two soldiers are brought in you treat the one with a leg off first, not the one with a twisted ankle. If you pour vast amounts of money into C19 it is not available to be spent elsewhere. Look here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-not-among-10-most-common-causes-of-death-in-september-ons-12111980. C19 is killing fewer than many other diseases so logic would suggest you spend the money on those, yes?

As for what level? None. All of the measures we have come up with do not work and are ruining us as the benefits are too expensive. The traditional method is to quarantine the sick and hope for the best against something that is invisible and has evolved over millennia to persist. Viruses will exist for as long as we do and no doubt beyond. That does not mean we don't treat those who are unwell it means that we do not tear ourselves apart over something that affects only a minority.

@telford_mike, the only kind of denier is Holocaust. Don't try and steal moral force from that to try and insinuate that those who disagree with the govt's programme are akin to neo-Nazis. It's foolish. No-one here believes that C19 doesn't exist.

@brianatab, I don't know where to start. Of course those with 'flu are admitted to hospital with complications: that's the point of a hospital. They wouldn't be admitted if the symptoms were mild. Recent studies have shown that 60-80% of people testing +ve for C19 are without symptoms but that to me casts more doubt on the accuracy of the tests, especially given the false +ve rate that has been discussed elsewhere: it could be that these +ves without symptoms are those who don't have it at all or last had it months ago. Also, chickenpox isn't vaccinated against so I don't know why that's in the list.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@rob@rar, I'm saying that you cannot control a virus. Slowing it down is not control when the cost is the damage we have seen already. If I were to defend myself from burglars by not having any possessions it would not be much of a defence. That is if you even accept the idea that we have slowed it at all: look at the curves for European countries over the summer: they are all the same shape despite the various measures. It sounds counter-intuitive but how else do you explain the disparities? Masks? Please. We didn't have them anywhere in Europe yet the results varied wildly.

C19 is going to kill those that it will and the only way to avoid it is to hide forever. This situation reminds me of the old fables about people trying to run from death:

"There once was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to the market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling as he said, “Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a man in the crowd, and when I turned, I saw it was Death that jostled me. He looked at me and made a threatening gesture, now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me.”

The merchant lent his servant his horse, and the servant mounted it and dug his spurs into the horse’s flanks, and as fast as the horse could gallop, he went. Then the merchant went down to the marketplace, and he saw Death standing in the crowd, and the merchant came to Death and said, “Why did you make a threating gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?”

“That was not a threatening gesture,” said Death, “It was only a startle of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Baghdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra""

A snowHead

@boobleblooble Your own words:

'made-up numbers from the start of the pandemic that caused the scare have now been thoroughly laughed at as they were dangly bits'

'expert opinion' is one of the worst forms of evidence'

'You're a coward.'

'the only idiot is you.'

'how long will you accept the restrictions on your life and why are you so happy to hand your freedom to the gov't to hand back at their permission?'

'We have shifted to an authoritarian state where the gov't and Police have exercised power in excess of the laws that they have been given and there are hundreds of thousands who love their submission'

So, yes, a conspiracy theory. And one that seems to brook no contradiction.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@brianatab, China?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@LaForet, sigh OK.

- the estimates of deaths were done by a variety of people but those from Ferguson in particular were miles off. These were models which are so poorly-estimated as to essentially be made up or, if you like, a guess.

- expert opinion IS one of the worst forms of evidence: it sits at the level of case studies. The best are randomised controlled trials and then meta-reviews such as those produced by Cochrane: shorturl.at/diwR0.

- yes I've insulted others on this thread after being insulted and losing my patience.

- we have handed our freedom to the gov't: they give us permission to do things that we have naturally been doing for years. Little things like trading freely and associating with our families. Protesting in the streets (now only permissible if it's 'safe' according to C19 rules which limits the numbers) unless of course it's fashionable like BLM whereupon no-one is forcibly dispersed or fined, and the Police join in or run away.

- we HAVE shifted to an authoritarian state. For years everything that was not expressly forbidden was permitted. Now we have inverted that and have to have gov't permission as to even what we wear in public, regardless of the evidence. Please see any of Lord Sumption's speeches including that which he delivered last night to the Cambridge Law faculty. If an ex-Supreme Court judge is saying these things then I would think he is on to something.

@boobleblooble,
Also worth noting that the Countries who appear to have been (or claim to be) most successful are extremely more Authoritarian than the UK, or any Western Country.

If the rest of the world is prevented from seeing just how brutally they dealt with it, and actual death rates, not those the Govt choose to release...

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Help!!

Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste