 Poster: A snowHead
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This all seems to be the perfect content to feed into three books:
1) The idiots guide to bridge burning.
2) An encyclopaedia of biting hands that feed you.
3) The Daily Fail guide to never letting reality get in the way of a bit of Frenchie baiting.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I said I thought he would be convicted. He was. I said his licence was at risk. It has been revoked. Nothing clever as fairly obvious but not too bad for someone who is clueless. I do find the powers of denial amazing. I do hope we move to acceptance and moving onto a solution soon.
A split of admin expenses are not normally included in a set of statutory accounts. I also find the ability of people desperate to find something to moan about that they clearly know nothing about also amazing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| TTT wrote: |
@speed098,
The problem is that SB has been convicted of employing under qualified staff and that is why his licence has been taken away. The french think he has broken the law. Basi think he has broken the law. Advertising in Megeve has meant it is harder to ignore his conviction. So it is difficult to see how he could keep his licence. |
And this is the root of the issue is it legal for the ESF to be the only ones allowed to have training schools? This is something in my opinion BASI should challenge but have conceded like meek mice in front of a lion.
ESF are not playing fair, if they have to recognise equal qualifications then that means they have to acknowledge equal rights across the board which includes opening and running training schools.
The fact they discriminate pro-actively means they can not say someone is breaking their rules and win a case in the ECJ even if that person instead of having ten at the level required only had seven or even only one. You can not be guilty of breaking an illegal rule.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I predict some people will make predictions based on no evidence or logic whatsoever.
SB does seem to have some kind of pathological self destruct button.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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so does BASI from here.
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I think you will find SB has been convicted and lost his licence not basi.
@speed098, I agree with you on training centre point. I understand basi have and will continue to lobby on this point. I would like to see basi trainer run programmes in Fr like there are in CH.
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| TTT wrote: |
I think you will find SB has been convicted and lost his licence not basi.
@speed098, I agree with you on training centre point. I understand basi have and will continue to lobby on this point. I would like to see basi trainer run programmes in Fr like there are in CH. |
Thankyou for acknowledging the problem re training schools but could BASI not have said they would not suspend/revoke SB's license as the ESF do not recognise any other professional qualification than their own for running training schools and as SB himself has removed himself to Switzerland unless more issues arise this season then a hearing re SB's license will be on hold till after the issue re training schools has been resolved.
They could have used the ESF's own policy against them re SB's suspension after all if they do not recognise other instructors right to run a training school how can you recognise someone breaking a rule re lesser qualified instructors.
ESF do not care re one person if he is thrown out well and good hopefully same result with the next person from the same or another country. But having 5-10 or more instructors from different country's awaiting an EU ruling with their gov body saying yes we should be able to have training schools will worry the ESF, by weight of numbers against them.
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The reality is that basi can only push something through when it is supported by eu rules or economics. That is the reality of business and politics everywhere. I suspect SB was not helping the negotiations. The fact that he has been convicted, is still running a ski school in Megeve and has broken basi guidelines meant they were left with little option especially with all the publicity from SB. Whatever you think of the rights and wrongs SB has not played this well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TTT,
He may not have played this out the best way he could but he is not working in Megeve he is working in Switzerland ( or was going to ). Others have said the company is only employing instructors the ESF deem qualified this season so what is the big issue?
Are you saying he had to sell the business or just close up and loose even more money ? The company has a right to trade especially if someone is saying only business's employing x level can do so and they employ x level.
BASI can push anything they want the question is can they push hard enough to get it passed, by arguing the points strongly enough ? If not they may need a better team fighting the fight because you should not stop fighting till you actually loose the final appeal with the EU. Only by doing that do you get the best deal for your members.
You fight to get the EU rules as much in your favour as you can, not fight with the support of EU rules, these are the negotiations. This is something BASI need to learn from the ESF.
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I don't have a problem with what SB is now doing. I think though that continuing operations in Megeve antagonised the French.
Does not matter what you do or have, basi are just one player and therefore have limited economic or political power. The reality is that everyone who is not self deluded knows that L2 is not a serious qualification and L3s I know are happy to work elsewhere or are supportive of the french system as it is the one country that gives them an opportunity to make a living as a ski instructor in the future so I don't see radical change but training centre status and opportunities is certainly a topic up for ddebate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@TTT,
BASI are one player but so is every other organisation if a nation thinks they should have more say ie that BASI don't count as much because they have very few ski resorts within the UK as an example, you straight away say to that nations organisation " are you saying we are not all equal that you are above the rest of us?"
FIGHT !
Go drink with the others in the evening if you want but round the negotiation table it is war and you fight for every single scrap.
If the French feel antagonised after the guy has left the country ask them if they are that insecure to be worried about one person who is not even in France anymore.
They have no right now to close the business ( it should have been done at the time of the court case at the latest ) unless SB returned and was arrested on the same charges as he has already been charged.
If they meet the rules that the ESF/court say need to be met they can trade unmolested while any appeal is going through.
You say Level 2 is not a serious qualification I say it is but at the lowest level. Level one without any disrespect to level one BASI is the very first step and could be viewed as an intent to be an instructor. Level 2 is the assertion of intent it takes many hours and a reasonable amount of money and effort to pass. These people need support and encouragement to continue and become level 3 and level 4 because they have shown support and loyalty to BASI.
BASI should fight for these people that they have actual instructor experience over a prolonged period they have shown a commitment to progress up the instructor ladder and should be viewed as equal to a first year stagerie who may be a more proficient racer but may well have little or no teaching experience at the start of their first season.
DO NOT sell your organisation your training regime and your members short !
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| TTT wrote: |
| I don't have a problem with what SB is now doing. I think though that continuing operations in Megeve antagonised the French. |
So is it right that a person's ability to ply his trade anywhere in the world should be removed on the grounds that he has antagonised the French?
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You know it makes sense.
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I think it interesting that from what I have read BASI intend to basically only support ISTD Level 4 Instructors overseas rather devalues all of the lower levels if I was paying a substantial fee for membership plus big fees for courses etc to get up to lower levels I don't think I'd be very happy,
As for the BASI structure they seem to put a very high percentage of their income into what they term administration costs and a large amount seems to go one way or another to those at the top of the tree, now maybe everyithing is above board but a lack of transparency in the accounts doesn't make that easy to prove.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thankyou for posting that link.
From reading if the article is accurate BASI are totally out of order SB should have been given a chance to put his case forward, he should have thus been informed in writing of all accusations prior to the meeting and an invite to attend.
It does not matter how strong a case BASI think they have any person is entitled to a fair hearing, if not the question of breaching that persons human rights can be raised.
He should NEVER ! have been told by Stephen Burke at the GM he was no longer a member membership should only be revoked in writing this is for legal reasons.
No matter what else SB is deemed to have done BASI should not have deliberately and intentionally singled him out and embarrassed him in front of fellow members it shows they are utterly unsuitable to perform their duty.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Has BASI issued any kind of press release on this development? I couldn't find one - only the one about the new CEO. On the face of it, they have taken a serious step, on an issue which has raised quite a bit of public interest. You'd expect them to have anticipated questions and prepared a line to take.
The BASI Articles of Association are a bit vague on the question of the grounds on which a member might be thrown out. As andy suggests there must be a question about "due process" here.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Isn't the new CEO of BASI opening up a branch of BASS in Megeve this season?
Must be purely co-incidental that Megeve was where SB operated, surely?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Per Planetski Stephen Burke said
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| "We therefore rebuked his membership and he is no longer and member of this Association," |
"You're a very naughty membership!"
Bring back DG to ski hackery all is forgiven.
In other news the new CEO didn't think the first AGM of his organisation on his watch a serious enough event to be worth postponing a flight until the next day for?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 2-11-14 23:20; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wonder if this sort of attitude is illustrative of why there are deep divisions in the membership:
"The meeting was hi-jacked by Simon Butler and his supporters and they would have caused the problmes whether he had been expelled or not as they came to make their points in 'any other business' come what may," said Stephen Burke.
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BASI made their decision come what may without due process or regard for SB. Any other business is as it says for any other business, I hope I am wrong but it seems certain members of BASI have personal issues with SB. No interim of such a major body would come out with comments like this if they were even half competent at their job.
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@pam w, he's also a director of BASS Megève according to his LinkedIn entry.
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I think the lawyers for BASI and SB will soon be busy....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
he's also a director of BASS Megève
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Then no doubt he'll have declared an interest and not taken any part in the Board's discussion and voting on this issue.....
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@pam w, of course, and the same with the new board secretary who is with ESF St Gervais.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This is new and sudden and only all happened on Saturday? Are you serious? This has been going on for a very long time with a lot of discussions and correspondence. SB has been convicted and he and his acolytes should not be surprised at loss of licence as that is the natural consequence of being convicted
The CEO is a full time position so does not stand to benefit from SB removal and people do have prior engagements and changing flights is expensive.
Fight? War? Basi conspiracy? There is a lot of hysterical and xenophobic nonsense on here. Basi has revoked the licence of someone who has been convicted of ski instructor related offences, acting against Basi guidelines and EU rules in accordance with its articles of association after a process that has been going on many years. Basi has shown an incredible amount of patience with SB over a very long period of time. If you wish to be a member of an association it is obvious that you have to follow it's rules and the law. SB has not.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| TTT wrote: |
This is new and sudden and only all happened on Saturday? Are you serious? ....
There is a lot of hysterical and xenophobic nonsense on here. . |
i) Well why wasn't SB delivered the news earlier/in advance of the day in private and in writing then? In fact why did they even issue him his 14/15 card?
ii) I don't see as much hysteria and xenophobia as I see of BASI management and/or yourself not wishing to address certain issues fully and transparently and fueling the fire e.g. any ruckus at the AGM seems to be down to their own hamfisted way of handling i)
e.g is it really appropriate for an interim CEO to characterise a group of members as SB supporters who would have created trouble regardless rather than respecting them as professional individuals with their own minds? Do those members not have a right to raise questions and have them answered because they happen to symphathise with a "menace to society".
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| TTT wrote: |
| There is a lot of hysterical and xenophobic nonsense on here. |
This is a thread about BASI. The B in BASI stands for 'British'. I think all the people criticising it have been British, so I'm not sure who is being xenophobic.
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You know it makes sense.
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There was a lot of previous discussions and correspondence with SB over many years. The board only met and made the decision on Saturday so could only inform SB then. If I could work it out then surely SB should have been able to work it out.
There is video evidence of SB ranting at a previous GM so he has previous of creating trouble at GMs.
I know what BASI stands for thanks. I have also seen the comments made about the French by SB, on here and on his FB site. He is the only ISTD out of c.350 that has a problem so it strikes me that SB is the problem.
I appreciate some people our still in the grief and denial stage especially as some are complicit in his conviction and losing his licence but none of this is helping SB or achieve greater access for basi members. Time to be constructive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Can any of the instructors here explain please whether SB's expulsion makes a difference to his ability to act as a professional instructor in countries other than France?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Basi website that most ski schools require in switzerland require a recognised international qualification and that if you work independently you need the swiss patente. I presume that SB does not have the swiss patente. It goes on to say penalties are severe and neither the instructor or clients are insured.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@dogwatch, based on a quick scan of basi website it seems to say countries require a recognised qualification. As he has had licence revoked I don't think he has a recognised qualification. Not sure how he was planning on working in CH anyway unless he was planning to get his swiss patente which is not straightforward and requires local language fluency or he planned to work for a ski school or it was a temporary arrangement. Either way I would recommend obtaining proof from SB if you want to ensure you will get lessons and wish to avoid that he also ends up being convicted in CH.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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With respect TTT, I was asking if any instructors could tell us whether SB's expulsion makes a difference to his ability to act as a professional instructor in countries other than France and afaiik, you are not an instructor?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 3-11-14 8:53; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@dogwatch, the old with respect  fair question though - I have an instructor licence but don't instruct but may decide to in the future which is why I'm familiar with the requirements. But you are right as I don't instruct I don't consider myself to be an instructor so please feel free to ignore me although I don't see how ignoring the advice that SB is breaking EU law and runs the risk of losing his licence is helpful to SB annoying as it may be.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@dogwatch, the information is on the public area of the basi website so you can also check yourself.
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@dogwatch, Google the European database on regulated professions. Covers the EEA so Switzerland is in there too.
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| TTT wrote: |
| There is video evidence of SB ranting at a previous GM so he has previous of creating trouble at GMs. |
Absolute nonsense. He was calm, polite and to the point and raised legitimate issues which were sidestepped.
Yes, I'm sure there was correspondence and other interactions, but it takes two sides to create a dispute.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Until it his licence was sudden revoked on Saturday just prior to the AGM then Simon could have legally worked in Switzerland could he not?
Therefore this unannounce revocation has meant that he now can't work in Switzerland.
So TTT is the new CEO stepping down from his directorship of BASS Megeve?
Was he involved in the Board meeting that decided to revoke the members licence?
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| TTT wrote: |
There was a lot of previous discussions and correspondence with SB over many years. The board only met and made the decision on Saturday so could only inform SB then. If I could work it out then surely SB should have been able to work it out.
There is video evidence of SB ranting at a previous GM so he has previous of creating trouble at GMs.
I know what BASI stands for thanks. I have also seen the comments made about the French by SB, on here and on his FB site. He is the only ISTD out of c.350 that has a problem so it strikes me that SB is the problem.
I appreciate some people our still in the grief and denial stage especially as some are complicit in his conviction and losing his licence but none of this is helping SB or achieve greater access for basi members. Time to be constructive. |
So BASi in all that previous correspondence invited him to this meeting ? If not BASI is in the wrong !
Surely he could work it out ! He has a right to be informed directly and professionally BASI have shown themselves worse than anything they accuse him of.
I have not seen the video evidence you mention but from BASI way of handling this is it more the guy is in front of BASI and they won't answer the questions like on sites like this but face to face it is harder to ignore someone and he pushed for answers you would or could not give and made you feel uncomfortable. Maybe he is saying BASi were deliberately obstructive and refused to answer questions put to them and clarify points.
You have still not answered many questions here I know if I was face to face with you I would push you for an answer and if you did not I would make sure everyone new you were deliberately avoiding answering and question motives why you would refuse. This is on questions you should be able to answer.
The fact is re SB being thrown out no matter how strong a case BASI believe they have ( I believe it is very very weak UNTIL ! any appeal process is finished and if SB lost on appeal. After all he has won other cases on appeal) The way they conducted this is pathetic and amateurish conducted by people who should know better and strive to show fairness equality and respect for all members. They should hang their heads in shame.
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