 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm sorry, but a 30 minute drive to the slopes each day is ludicrous.
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Why? In many places where you need to get a ski bus it takes that kind of time, to walk to the bus stop, get yourself on, get yourself off the other end, etc.
And many people who live in ski countries - the US, France, Austria, etc regularly drive to ski, often to a whole range of resorts.
People who live in Annecy, Grenoble etc regularly drive to ski. And report on their trips on Snowheads too. A number of the regular SHs in Austria also drive to ski.
In New Zealand most - if not all - accommodation is a drive from the ski slopes. A scary one, too, according to my brother in law. I believe much North American accommodation is a drive from the slopes, too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
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the expectation of big tips both difficult and unpleasant
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I absolutely detest this tipping culture. If I order food in a restaurant, then I rather expect that it will be brought to my table with good grace. I will pay 10% for service (because that is the culture) but it seems a bit crazy.
If I pay for ski school/lessons, then I don't expect to have to tip unless the service has been truly exceptional. Would I tip a dentist? Would I tip a shop assistant? Would I tip a traffic warden? Of course not. Would I expect my clients to tip me? NO! Ski instructors (especially) are self-employed, so it makes no sense. |
Waitresses are typically paid below minimum wage, and they have to split the tips with the kitchen staff...
Without your tips, they don't make any money. For some reason, that's just the way it works there, it's the business model, as odd as it seems. It has always been this way, and will remain so.
And 15% is what you pay if you are satisfied, more if they did an outstanding job, and less if they are a punter. Only twice, in the 20 years I lived in the states, did I not leave a tip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| andyrew wrote: |
Even in the 3V I can get a litre of wine for 9 euros with our meal, tartiflette for 12 euro and more basic mains for about 8. |
Blimey - you're doing well, having spent a week their in December and a few days there over easter I think you're doing well to find any main for less than 15 euro. Even a burger in a pub in a resort village was 11.50 and up the hill an omlette was 17.50, large beer 8 euro
In the dolomites I was doing well to spare more than 15 for lunch including a beer,. during the S9BB a bunch of us went out for Pizzas in Arabba and had great pizzas, even better puddings and lots of wine and it was less than 13 euro a head
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I wouldn't call it 'ludicrous' but if you've only got a week's holiday as opposed to living somewhere where you can ski all season on your days off I'd much rather be somewhere I can roll out of bed and onto my skis and ski directly back to my accomodation at the end of the day instead of faffing about with busses or driving. I couldn't do that on my recent trip to Les Sybelles and while it was still excellent it would have been that little bit better if it was ski in - ski out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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foxtrotzulu, pretty common in the US where slope side accommodation is often minimal. makes sense in plenty of alpine locations if you want to ski different resorts on different days. may not suit you but works well for me
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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foxtrotzulu, you don't expect to have to tip because you are a Brit and it's not part of the culture. However, if you go to (eg) Canada you have to accept that it's the way things are done there and staff remuneration is based on the assumption that guests will tip. If you fail to do so, your server takes a cut in wages for no fault on his part. Stop being such a git and stump up.
I'm not a fan of this arrangement either, but taking it out on the people serving your dinner is not the way forward.
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Arno, I agree that's the way of things in the U.S. (and consequently one of the main reasons I have no desire to ski there), and I understand that if you live in Grenoble (for example) then a drive to the slopes for a day's skiing is acceptable. However, for a typocal Brit on holiday I still maintain that 30 minutes is, for most, unnaceptable. Personally, I try to avod anything that isn't ski-in/ski-out.
Lizzard, I didn't say that I didn't tip waitresses etc. I just said that I dislike the system. However, I still maintain I would generally not tip ski instructors. You tell me to stop being a git and stump up. Surely that attitude could more appropriately be applied to the restaurant owners? Incidentally, this tipping issue seems to be almost exclusively a U.S. / Canadian phenomenon. U.K. style tipping is often regarded as overly generous in many E.U. countries.
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| fatbob wrote: |
No idea where Japan & Southern Hemisphere fit |
Niseko Resort Area, Hokkaido
all prices in pounds sterling
Niseko United All-mountain day pass 35.56
Lunch 6.58
(Katsu don - breaded pork fillet on egg fried rice served with a small bowl of miso soup)
Coffee 3.29
(latte, cappucino)
Beer 3.95
Prices have increased maybe 10% in the seven years I've been in the area.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would hazard a guess that Australia would be one of the most expensive places - looks to be around $115 per day for a lift ticket plus between $10-16 per day per person for 'resort entry'. This was comparing Mt Buller and Perisher and kinda averaging the two.
So $125AUD... £85?
Do we even need to add food to that? 
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Blimey - you're doing well, having spent a week their in December and a few days there over easter I think you're doing well to find any main for less than 15 euro. Even a burger in a pub in a resort village was 11.50 and up the hill an omlette was 17.50, large beer 8 euro
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you should come skiing with me then 
Bar Skilt, Menswear. Tartiflette 12E (the most expensive mains). 1L blanc savoie 9E 1/2L 6E
Zig Zag, Mottaret. Plat du jour (always delicious, cheaper mains available, but why would you...) 12E 1/2L blanc de savoie 8E (cheaper wine available). We always end up spending more here though because there's usually something like a tarte tatin just out of the oven and then we need another wine and..... (plus the nicest people you could meet anywhere)
Ferme de la tania. Galettes 8E (cripites are nice too), pichet rose 8E
need I go on?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
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If you are happy to drive for 30 mins to the lifts and
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You are joking? That's a bit like saying.... "If you are happy to hitch-hike across the channel and walk up the mountain each morning with skins while living on a diet of lichen and eau de pissoir and don't mind skiing without snow, then it's pretty good value" I'm sorry, but a 30 minute drive to the slopes each day is ludicrous. |
We had a great week driving to different ski areas last week (Ski Amade, Austria). 6 days skiing, 6 different ski areas all within 20 mins of where we were staying. Usually finishing breakfast as the lifts opened at 8.30am, yet were on a lift by 9.15am each day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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France VFM skiing? Yes, absolutely. It is much cheaper to ski in/ski out there than anywhere else. It all depends on what you wants from your holiday. Packed lunch (so you can ski whilst everyone else is eating) and self cater with nice wine from the supermarket and don't hit the apres means your skiing is relatively cheap. If you want a goumet week with a bit of skiing on the side, well then that's your choice too, but it will cost as you're up a mountain. Get over it!
Just my two pennys worth!
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We have stayed in a very quiet hamlet 5 minutes from St Martin de Bellville, it worked out at about £60 a head for the week for the accommodation.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I'm sorry, but a 30 minute drive to the slopes each day is ludicrous.
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Why? In many places where you need to get a ski bus it takes that kind of time, to walk to the bus stop, get yourself on, get yourself off the other end, etc.
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From my experience of Austria this year, if you could get from hotel to piste in less than half an hour then you were doing b***y well!! Not to say I won't go back, market forces and all that, if at certain times of the year France is silly money then I'll go elsewhere.
BUT, my usual experience, garnered over 30 years, is that I roll out of bed, onto my skis, onto the piste. Then at the end of the day I roll off my skis onto the balcony; 30 seconds from skis to a beer on the balcony. That's what I call a civilised country.
Vive La France!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Depends on the town/village and the hotel, not the country. I've spent 30mins to get from chalet to slopes in Les Gets, and spent what about 10mins getting from car park in Zillertal (day trip from elsewhere), to gondola, including buying a lift ticket and getting booted up etc. OK add on 5min gondola ride, oh and however many seconds it takes for the 2nd gondola cabin to come around (don't want to impose on a family getting in the first one). Hardly wasting my ski time any more than any chair/gondola during the day. And about 1 min walk from boot room to slopes in Italy (wow! that's a massive twice as long as 30sec), oh and skied right to the boot room steps. In fact I think someone probably even skied right down those steps.
edit: of course some people's ski vacations are totally ruined if there's more than 30s between boot room and piste. I'm happy to save a €100 and walk 1min.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Arno, I agree that's the way of things in the U.S. (and consequently one of the main reasons I have no desire to ski there), and I understand that if you live in Grenoble (for example) then a drive to the slopes for a day's skiing is acceptable. However, for a typocal Brit on holiday I still maintain that 30 minutes is, for most, unnaceptable. Personally, I try to avod anything that isn't ski-in/ski-out.[ |
that's fine. my only argument was that you shouldn't compare the cost of staying in Salt Lake City and driving up to Alta, Snowbird etc every day (as many people do) with staying in slopeside accommodation in the Espace Killy and then conclude that France has to be more expensive than the US
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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andy, I know you can ski in/ski out almost any country, what I am saying is that France is generally cheaper for it, well in my limited experience anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Depends on the town/village and the hotel, not the country
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Exactly.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There is very little ski out accommodation anywhere. Val Thorens e.g. is one of the few resorts that has plenty of skiing below the town but most of the accommodation is neither ski in or ski out. Ski in/out is vastly overated IMHO as I prefer to finish my ski day in a bar rather than in my accommodation 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ski in/out is vastly overated IMHO
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Same here.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Ski in/out is vastly overated IMHO as I prefer to finish my ski day in a bar rather than in my accommodation |
this man speaks sense
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I prefer to finish my ski day in a bar rather than in my accommodation
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I can't afford to do that, as I ski so many days a year (well, not this year, but normally  ). I prefer to sit on my own terrace with a beer or glass of wine which costs me very little.
But my place suits my niece and family who like to finish in a bar. They ski down to the restaurant over the road, have their apres ski drinks, then walk the few yards back to the apartment. They were staying in an apartment at the bottom of the piste this time, so it was a case of back on the skis and ski the last 300 metres down.
As Easter was their third visit this year they have got to know the bar staff. Their first session this year - the lunchtime they arrived - ended with a tasting of personal hooch - the home made genepi was produced and Daryl produced his sloe gin to try in exchange.
For me, ski in/out is vital because I have quite a lot of family and friends staying, either in my place or another apartment rented from friends, and if they can get themselves out, and back, easily it saves me a lot of transport duties. There is a ski bus but although it's reliable it's not frequent.
I visit other places, including Les Contamines, by car.
What I really dislike is walking more than 50 metres in my very close-fitting ski boots. Getting on a bus is another thing I prefer to avoid. Last time I did that was in Val D'Isere, having skied down to La Daille. Wait for a bus, squeeze onto it, lurch around standing up, then fight your way off, hot and bothered.  And that was mid January. Goodness knows what it's like at busy times. It's extra unacceptable with small children.
Driving to ski is fine if you have convenient, free, parking, near the base of the lifts. Another thing you don't find in Val D'Isere. We parked in an underground car park in Megeve when they had a limited pre-season opening. the parking charges were on the eye-watering side though it was conveniently near the lifts. I am spoiled - everywhere I normally go you can park free and conveniently.
There's something very satisfying about clipping the skis on top of the car at the end of a good day's skiing, changing into comfortable footwear and finding you haven't dropped the car keys in a snow drift somewhere. 
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I can see the attraction in ski in/ski out but I'd take having having my car piste-side, or a bus to pick me up, over walking anywhere in ski boots and carrying skis.
pam w for future reference, Princesse and Cote 2000 car parks are free in Megeve and very convenient.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
What I really dislike is walking more than 50 metres in my very close-fitting ski boots....etc |
I couldn't agree more.
At the end of a day's skiing, my feet want out of my boots and my knees want to be lubricated (internally) with a very large G&T! 
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| Arno wrote: |
that's fine. my only argument was that you shouldn't compare the cost of staying in Salt Lake City and driving up to Alta, Snowbird etc every day (as many people do) with staying in slopeside accommodation in the Espace Killy and then conclude that France has to be more expensive than the US |
My basic logic was that they are broadly equivalent in price but that eating out in the evening and lift pass deals (if you can get them- Easy in SLC, impossible in Jackson Hole etc) give US a slight cost advantage (which of course is more than reversed for a Brit by flight costs).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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for future reference, Princesse and Cote 2000 car parks are free in Megeve and very convenient.
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yes, I've noticed the Princesse one, but that day there was only one little sector open, so no choice!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This winter I drove to ski in Chamonix, Les Menuires, Villard de Lans (from Grenoble), St Gervais, Combloux, Megeve, Le Grand Bornand, Villard de Lans again and Meribel.
Longest drive was getting back from LGB due to traffic one day and snow on the Col des Aravis the next. Longest walk from the car was probably Meribel but wasn't too bad. All parking was free.
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You know it makes sense.
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Alastair Pink, how very far-sighted!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, so you've seen his spectacles
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Poster: A snowHead
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Alastair Pink, Is your real name George Soros by any chance?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is very little ski out accommodation anywhere.
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hahahahahahahahahaha
My 30 years of experiences say something different. Let me think..... Val d'isere, tignes, la plagne (lots of diferent ones), Arcs, Alpe d'huez (lots of different ones), les 2 alpes, la tania, mottaret, menuires, VT, (all 3v lots of different ones), I've even managed to ski in/out in Chatel for goodness sake.
gixxerniknik,
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I know you can ski in/ski out almost any country, what I am saying is that France is generally cheaper for it, well in my limited experience anyway.
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I think you're going to find your limited experience will be far from limited!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We went to Morzine this year, and Whistler last year, and didnt notice much difference in the cost of everything when in the resort - apart from in Fairmont where we rocked a 50% discount 
As for the cost at either place, remember where you are. Its a tourist destination and generally you are going to places that the locals dont go, hence the inflated prices. Think yourselves lucky, there is nowhere here that you can get a beer for less than 7 euros, and bottle of wine (cheap chilean even) for less than 60 euros, or a steak for less than 40 euros (unless you want to only drink a soft drink).
When we went to Morzine we only felt one place was overpriced, which was full of a load of tourists!! We ate in L'armandier (sp?) thanks to recommendations from SH's (THANKS!) and it cost us under Euro40 for two us us to eat, with wine!! We thought we had died and gone to heaven! Meals here are Euro150 for a pizza and some drinks.
Quit complaining, as said, the UK isnt cheap anymore!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Ski in/out is vastly overated IMHO as I prefer to finish my ski day in a bar rather than in my accommodation |
I'm failing to see your point. Having ski in/out accomodation would mean you didn't have to mess around in the morning with a walk/bus/drive and could still end your day in a bar if you choose to.
How could it possibly be better not being able to do that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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swiftoid, In term of convenience of skiing one area ski in/ski out is the best. I totally understand people's reluctance to drive. When we first looked at the chalet here, I had only ever stayed in ski in/ski out places (or those with a short walk but I really didn't like walking back in ski boots carrying skis, no matter how short the walk). We timed the journey to the local lift (6 minutes so not very long at all) and it still made me nervous - I wasn't sure who would book to stay somewhere you had to drive/be driven to the pistes. As it turns out, our location has been a selling point for us because there are people out there who like to explore different ski areas on their holiday (we're 15-20 mins drive from lifts in a few other places as well, like it sounds to be in the Ski Amade) or who don't want to walk anywhere or carry skis, and don't mind about being driven/driving for a few minutes - for them, taking a compromise on, say, cost/size/quality of accommodation is not worth it just to be ski in/ski out. Personally, I love the independence and flexibility of hopping in the car and going to different areas and having all the extras I might need to hand in the car right at the foot of the pistes (including snacks, change of clothes and comfy boots to wear whilst enjoying an apres-ski vin chaud), but for some people that just sounds like a faff... and wouldn't the world be a boring place if we were all the same?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Personally, I love the independence and flexibility of hopping in the car and going to different areas and having all the extras I might need to hand in the car right at the foot of the pistes (including snacks, change of clothes and comfy boots to wear whilst enjoying an apres-ski vin chaud)
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A good point, and particularly important if you have small kids. To that list you can then add toboggans, plastic spades to dig in the snow, nappies etc, a change of clothes, a bag to pick up some shopping on the way home, a car seat for the teeniest ones to have a short kip, etc etc
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swiftoid, it's all about choice. Now that the kids are self sufficient I find that it is better to stay in roomy and good value accommodation that is near to facilities.
2 recent holidays:
Wagrain in Austria, right in the town centre next to all the amenities, bus stop right outside, regular on time, deposits one at the lift 3 minutes later. We could have stayed ski in/out in Alpendorf and saved those 3 minutes but we would not have been next to the amenities and it would have cost a whole lot more.
Aosta: We chose to stay in Aosta rather than Pila, drove 5 mins to the Gondola and an 18 minute ride up. We chose the Valley town beacause it was far cheaper but the accomodation was superb and great value and it was in the old town with some great restaurants and bars.
It is all about choice. When the kids were little we chose convenience over value for money because dragging them around with ski gear was a pain. Best ski in / out place we stayed was a Catered Chalet in Reberty Villages that also had a great restaurant bar withing 50m. It was proper ski out
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Frosty the Snowman, saves me typing. Reberty gave me exactly what I wanted, slope side, catered and a good bar. Excellent place. Oils not quite ski to door maybe 20 meters.
30 minutes in a car , no thanks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Filthyphil30k wrote: |
Frosty the Snowman, saves me typing. Reberty gave me exactly what I wanted, slope side, catered and a good bar. Excellent place. Oils not quite ski to door maybe 20 meters.
30 minutes in a car , no thanks. |
It was ski to bar though and after a few on the terrace in the Igloo the path was always skiable.... on hired kit
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Frosty the Snowman, how true.
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