 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from MdC in Italy where lift passes and food etc. all seemed pretty reasonable value. Friends of ours have just returned from a week in France (Val d'Isere) swearing they will not go back to France again. Apart from the rubbish chalet they accidentally rented they said that France's response to the financial crisis was simply to hike prices by 25%.
I know VdI is not your typical French resort, but have others noticed a dramatic increase in French prices this year?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't say I've noticed but then I've only done a few days in France. It has been discussed ad naseum in the past that there might be a default business model response in France is to say I need X profit, I have less volume therefore I need to raise prices to compensate, whereas elsewhere it might be how can I flex my business to ensure I don't have to raise prices too much which might drive customers away.
Who is to say they're wrong if customers are easily replaced?
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Can't say I've noticed a huge difference here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think the skiing "day to day" Cost of living chart worst > best is something like (assuming earning in £):
Scand
CH
Can
Fra
US
Aus
Ital
Slo
No idea where Japan & Southern Hemisphere fit
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No, I thought it was all fairly good value.
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| Quote: |
Japan & Southern Hemisphere
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I read that as Southern Hampshire!
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| fatbob wrote: |
I think the skiing "day to day" Cost of living chart worst > best is something like (assuming earning in £):
Scand
CH
Can
Fra
US
Aus
Ital
Slo
No idea where Japan & Southern Hemisphere fit |
I would only say, CH gets cheaper is you have children in your group. At Villars under 9 or something is free, and generally speaking, in the under 12 category is significantly cheaper than in France.
I know that doesn't apply to everyone, but for us, it can be a significant savings, making CH more attractive.... Adult lift passes more than in France, generally speaking, but I'm usually able to find lodging at about the same prices as France. Food is definitely more expensive, but we do self catering, and I usually bring a load from home, so that doesn't impact me so much...
Also, depending where you ski the States, those lift passes are outrageous! Especially if you talk Snowbird or Park City! Even the Tahoe area, pricey passes! That shoots the price up way high, before you've nibbled a donut for breakfast!
But for the rest, agree. Especially Scan - - that place is crazy expensive!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If I understand you all correctly, Canada is more expensive than France...blimey!
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gixxerniknik, Canadian dollar poor exchange rate plus lift passes headed towards outrageous for the main tourist spots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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foxtrotzulu, i know that we find Champoluc (even ignoring preferential locals' rates) is refreshingly good value for money compared to many places in Chamonix, for instance.
Altitude 2000 (resto at Planpraz) an egregious example with a pint at €9 and onion soup at €14.50...
You can get a bottle of prosecco and unlimited pizza in the Gallion apres ski for €11.00 (Champoluc).
But I don't think France has necessarily become much more expensive, if you know where you're going.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I know VdI is not your typical French resort, but have others noticed a dramatic increase in French prices this year? |
No. However I also think many people in VdI just don't need to worry too much about the prices. Unfortunately I'm not one of them.
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You know it makes sense.
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The fact that traders in Val D'Isere believe (apparently quite correctly) that they can charge whatever they like is the fault of all those sheeplike British skiers who think there's just "nowhere else to ski, darling". Last time I was there, just for a day, I was astonished that practically everyone around me, in the street and everywhere else, was speaking English. If they are prepared to pay for a pee, on top of paying stupid prices for their lunch, they have only themselves to blame. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, It is a nlovely town with outstanding skiing and therefore many particularly minted folks go there. It is quite normal that because of this the price of everything is at a premium. Not my cuppa tea BTW
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Poster: A snowHead
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My ski buddies have persuaded me to go to Canada next year on the basis that there'll be more powder & it'll be cheaper! Oh well!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
It is a nlovely town
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doesn't appeal to me at all - though I agree the skiing is terrific. But the expensiveness of Val D'Isere is a byword - hence my puzzlement at why folks go there then complain about the prices.
When my son worked there one of his cooking jobs, when he was freelancing, was cooking a good lunch every day for a couple of French shop owners. Imagine how much you have to be coining in to pay quite an expensive bloke to cook lunch for just the two of you!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Last time I was there, just for a day, I was astonished that practically everyone around me, in the street and everywhere else, was speaking English. |
I think you'd find more of a mix these days. Including Scandinavians and East Europeans. Even quite a few French.
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Think quite a bit of the vfm and/or price hikes is probably GBP:EUR (or CHF etc.) exchange rates.
I've certainly not seen EUR price hikes in any of Germany, Austria, Italy or France, but Switzerland seemed to be a massive jump (and they probably haven't changed the CHF price of a plates of fries either). Beer prices all seem the same, in fact somewhere I saw a €3.20 large beer, when most have been €3.40 or €3.60 for a while. Same price in a mountain hut, in the city, in the hotel in town, in my local...
OK petrol/diesel prices are a bit different though for those driving.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with other comments that France is pricing itself out of the skiing market. This year at Les 2 Alpes on the mountain...coffee 2.80 euros.....beer 3.80 euros for a small. Yet in Pila last year on the mountain ....coffee 1 euro.....small beer 2.40 euro...... I think italy has the better food as well, french gourmet doesn't do it for me..
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Just to clarify, our friends weren't grumbling about prices, per se, but more about the perceived increase compared with previous years. However, it seems from the responses here that the 25% increase is no more than a personal observation/delusion.
On a separate note I found that eating and drinking in MdC was actually not that cheap. The individual prices were often pretty good value, but we seemed to end up eating more expensive items than we might have done elsewhere. Poor weather meant that we seemed to be gorging on jugged venison ("Phowar... look at the jugs on that old dear") rather than the ubiquitous Frankfurter dragged through a bucket of mayonnaise and then rammed into the innards of a piece of French bread.
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The average demi of pression in Tignes has not gone up for 4 years, the cafes where we lunch may have added the odd ten cents to a burger and chips over the last couple of years - but 25% Non!
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| fatbob wrote: |
I think the skiing "day to day" Cost of living chart worst > best is something like (assuming earning in £):
Scand
CH
Can
Fra
US
Aus
Ital
Slo
No idea where Japan & Southern Hemisphere fit |
I think you have to be careful to compare like with like. Whistler and Vail will be at least as expensive for lift tickets as anywhere in Europe, as well as in resort accommodation and dining (except for Scandiland for the latter 2)
If you are happy to drive for 30 mins to the lifts and don't go for a glamour resort, France is still reasonable. I did half board accom in Allemont (20 mins drive or free ski bus to Alpe d'Huez lifts) and lift ticket at Alpe d'Huez for around EUR100 per day earlier this season. No doubt that can be beaten in North America but not by a huge margin
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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we decided to give up on france years ago (probably gonna get shot for saying that!) we've tried austria/andorra/italy and canada, canada was EASILY the most expensive we've experienced - Italy the cheapest, and to be honest, we feel the best, nice people, good food/wine - and you don't feel like you are getting ripped off on lift pass/ski hire prices, or anything else for that matter! ........ but i appreciate there are alot of ski-folks out there who will not go anywhere but france, due to choice/extent, but it's Italy every time for us!....just looking at booking next years hotel, 7 nights half board, with wine (decent hotel ski to door been there before) for... wait for it.......£235 pp......hotel only we will diy flights etc....... not bad eh?! 
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On the specific question, having done most of my skiing in Italy and France this year (including the next door Montgenevre/Claviere), I'd say Italy is quite a bit cheaper like-for-like.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
the ubiquitous Frankfurter dragged through a bucket of mayonnaise and then rammed into the innards of a piece of French bread.
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Having spent 4 months a year in France sine 2002 I have yet to feel compelled to eat one of those disgusting objects.
Coffee in Italy is just unbeatable quality and value. But a €2.80 French cup will usually be better VFM than the swill served up in many UK coffee shops in ugly heavy mugs better suited to sitting under the bed in case you taken short in the middle of the night.
I haven't drunk beer in Italy since sitting in a harbourside café near Genoa in October. It was expensive, though delicious in the sunshine after a good walk. My son, who lives in Genoa, says he reckons it's always expensive in bars. I think a large beer was €5 - 6
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£235 pp......hotel only.
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that's very good (per person for a double room, presumably?).
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If you are happy to drive for 30 mins to the lifts and don't go for a glamour resort, France is still reasonable.
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I'd say France is reasonable if you are happy to drive for 30 minutes to the lifts OR don't go for a glamour resort AND avoid the French school holiday weeks. There are plenty of smaller resorts with cheap ski in/out accommodation and lift prices seem to be much the same, like for like, through France, Austria and Italy. For budget DIY holidays, for families who are prepared to stay in small, basic, apartments I reckon France might be cheapest of all. Though it can also be blisteringly expensive - if you want luxury and big name resorts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
7 nights half board, with wine (decent hotel ski to door been there before) for... wait for it.......£235 pp......hotel only we will diy flights etc....... not bad eh?!
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Right.
just come back from St Jean d'Arves, apartment sleeps 6 in pretty good comfort, 45m2, 280 euro for the week (Not per person, for the lot). Eating out in the local village in the evening, wine, 7.50 euro for a Litre. Wine out on the mountain from 4.50 euro a 1/2 litre. Main courses out on the mountain, huge portions, around 10 euro.
Even in the 3V I can get a litre of wine for 9 euros with our meal, tartiflette for 12 euro and more basic mains for about 8.
If you really want to talk about an expensive country for skiing, how about a day lift pass for 38 euros (equivalent) for only 30kms, a large beer for 4 euros, where's that? The UK.
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| cbowls30 wrote: |
| and you don't feel like you are getting ripped off on lift pass/ski hire prices |
I've not felt ripped off by my lift pass in LDA, the 3Vs or Les Sybelles. Great value for money really when you consider everything it's paying for.
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You know it makes sense.
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| andyrew wrote: |
| If you really want to talk about an expensive country for skiing The UK. |
Xscape UK €40 for 2 hrs!!
Most expensive lift pass this season €47/day in St Anton for Mrs W
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Xscape UK €40 for 2 hrs!!
Most expensive lift pass this season €47/day in St Anton for Mrs W |
£26 / hour at Braehead during peak times for a 168m slope. Personally I think you'd have to be completely off your head to even consider that.
8 hours at peak rate there comes out at Euros 239.20 (exchange rate 1.15). You can get a 3V 6 day lift pass for the week commencing 20th April for 234 Euros!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
€47/day in St Anton for Mrs W
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Not to mention the continent's most expensive ski hire. 
overall I don't think there's anything to choose between the main alpine countries for a lift pass. Other costs are swings and roundabouts. France is expensive for people who can't bear not to get drunk in bars - which will cost them a lot - but drinkable wine is cheap in restaurants and both wine and beer is cheap enough in supermarkets.
Good quality piste side apartments can be found in France for €10 a night per person in small resorts outside the 6 busy weeks (christmas, New Year and the four main school holiday weeks). Or you can pay several thousand a week per person, accommodation only, in a luxury catered chalet. infinite choice - probably more than anywhere else.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting list, but it's not as easy as a comparison to make. Last Easter year we paid near on €260 to hire skis in Kitzbuhel for a week (2x red rated, 1 x kids with boots). Last week we paid €129 for practically the same kit, at a resort less than an hour away from Kitzbuhel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We tried to go to Italy this year, and hoped to try the Sella Ronda, but we couldn't find the type of skiing holiday we wanted at a price we were happy to pay. So ended up going to La Rosiere with Ski Olympic, had a great holiday and found it very reasonable...
Perhaps the new rules on guiding might change things for next year but we'll have to wait and see. Primarily we want a TO package holiday in a mid to large sized chalet with guiding (in a resort we haven't tried before) but don't want to pay the earth. France usually comes out on top, but in the past we have also been to Austria, Switzerland and Spain but Italy rarely gets a look in because the package deals don't seem to be there ...
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North America, and I mean the west, Utah, Colorado and California resorts, are very expensive. So expensive, that I reckon folk that live on the East Coast could probably spend less on their skiing holiday in France than in Vail, Breck, Park City, Snowbird, or the Tahoe basin.
Lift passes are more, lodging is more, and food is just as much, though, I love them outside barbeque's they do, with some chili on the side...proper American portions, but still it isn't cheap, AT ALL!
And if you need ski lessons, they are more too. I can't speak to Canada, as I've never been, but just on the surface, it ain't cheap either. Especially if you have kids, nearly anywhere in Europe is going to be cheaper for a ski holiday than anywhere in North America (save the East Coast, but who would want to go on a ski holiday there???)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I thought Whistler's lift passes were expensive, but eating was reasonable and in some cases even cheap, both on the mountain and off. Wine, on the other hand, was shocking expensive - it was cheaper to drink spirits. We ate in a very good restaurant on the last night (Araxi, for anyone who knows the resort) and had an excellent five course menu for $30, but once you added in the wine it was coming to about $100 a head.
pam w is right about tips though. And remember, when tipping, that your server is obliged to 'tip out' the bar and kitchen staff regardless of whether or not he actually got a tip from you. So if he scores for a load of tables full of people who refuse to tip (I'm told Aussies and Brits are the worst culprits) he can actually in effect end up paying for the privilege of working all evening. Rubbish system, if you ask me, but that's how it works.
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As others have said, the reason for Canada now being expensive is the current exchange rate - a few years back you could get more than 2 Canadian Dollars to the pound, now you'll do well to get C$1.50....
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| Quote: |
the reason for Canada now being expensive is the current exchange rate - a few years back you could get more than 2 Canadian Dollars to the pound, now you'll do well to get C$1.50...
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10 years back you could get €1.62 to the £. Lots of places were cheaper then.
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Food and beer was more expensive in the PdS than anywhere I've been in Austria, lower quality food (burger or croque monsier + chips) in various huts was typically at least as expensive as a 'proper meal' in most Austrian mountain restaurants. Beer in various 'normal' bars at least the price of a beer in an expensive bar in an Austrian resort (Mooser in St Anton fro instance).
Is the PdS typically at the expensive end of French resorts?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
If you are happy to drive for 30 mins to the lifts and
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You are joking? That's a bit like saying.... "If you are happy to hitch-hike across the channel and walk up the mountain each morning with skins while living on a diet of lichen and eau de pissoir and don't mind skiing without snow, then it's pretty good value" I'm sorry, but a 30 minute drive to the slopes each day is ludicrous.
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the expectation of big tips both difficult and unpleasant
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I absolutely detest this tipping culture. If I order food in a restaurant, then I rather expect that it will be brought to my table with good grace. I will pay 10% for service (because that is the culture) but it seems a bit crazy.
If I pay for ski school/lessons, then I don't expect to have to tip unless the service has been truly exceptional. Would I tip a dentist? Would I tip a shop assistant? Would I tip a traffic warden? Of course not. Would I expect my clients to tip me? NO! Ski instructors (especially) are self-employed, so it makes no sense.
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FAQ
