Ricklovesthepowder, scotlamd doesn't have adequate snow covered vertical to run a downhill, f'r instance.
And a host of other impossible to solve terrain issues.
Just not even something that could be considered.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have just phoned up Smiffy's in Aviemore and they are happy to do the food for the village (but get yer ain drinks) The Cooncil in Dundee are looking to give caravans for the village and we could have the opening ceremony at Macdairmid park (where St Johnstone play) but if they are playing a home game, Errol airfield can accommodate when they are not having a car boot sale.
I genuinely think this is a goer so can I put myself forward to be the first volunteer? Do I get a fleece top and can I start a choir?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
foxtrotzulu, not sure that's true. I consider skiing in the UK to be on a par with paralympics. Participation very low as a percentage of population, public interest fairly low, not many facilities or focus from the authorities until they saw an opportunity for London 2012. If we had Scotland 2022 then we'd have time to get athletes prepared, the public interest should be good, as people tap into the Olympic spirit - just look at the distances people travelled and money spent to go to relatively minority sports at London 2012. And just look at the amount of attention and participation that paralympic sports has got since London 2012. That is exactly what skiing needs in the UK - something that shows people that winter sports aren't just a bunch of toffs braying about boarding schools and drinking champers. Because I learned to ski in Birmingham, and I'd like to see some of the failing winter sports centres back on their feet.
Ricklovesthepowder, this is simple field of dreams stuff. If you build it they will come. Against all the odds, there are barriers to it working, but there are barriers to anything. The right attitude and we might just see it one day. And once the infrastructure is there, I think the Scottish resorts could benefit hugely from the kind of boost that the Olympics provides. If you did it, I'd be there. And hundreds of thousands of others would too.
Ricklovesthepowder, You're right, it is easy to be negative about this idea. But..... there really are too many things to be negative about. The issue isn't that Scotland and 'rump UK' are short of people interested in winter sports. We're all fanatical about it, so what would be the possible benefit of having the games in Scotland? Scotland doesn't have the mountains, the snow, the weather, the infrastructure, the money, the accommodation, etc.. You could use games money to build the best resort in Europe and people still wouldn't come.
Pardon? So Scotland doesn't have mountains, snow, weather or the infrastructure??? Are you serious
Well it has the first 3 straight away. Its full of Mountians, often very snowy and Weather is unpredictable where ever you have the Games. Remember Whistler a few years back when snow was "shipped" in to the resort as they were short? How "snowy" do you think the 2018 region of South Korea is during the winter?
The one area that would need to be developed is the infrastructure and the hotel side of things - but that can all be developed.
What do you think was at Sochi before they started developing it for the 2014 Winter Olympics?
Part of an Olympic games is to leave behind a Legacy, one where people can go and participate in the said sports and hopefully in the future, participate in future events and bring the youths into the mainstream sports.
I will bring to everyones attention the World Cup in Qatar. What is there right now to host the Worlds best football tournament in Qatar - NOTHING. Its something that will be built upon for future generations to enjoy!!!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ricklovesthepowder,
Your missing the point man, Smiffys have agreed TO FREE FISH AND CHIPS!!!! Never mind infrastructure, chippers for nowt is music to my ears man so I am IN!
Hold the phone, Ramsdens have come in with a free upgrade to a chip buttie with every Olympic meal given away so we are about to call Lord Coe to get the inside track on negotiating with potential sponsors.
It's all systems GO!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ricklovesthepowder, mountains?
Sure, very old, very beautiful mountains but nothing like any of the heights of alpine / north america.
An Olympic DH requires 800-1,100m vertical drop. Cairngorm, for example, offers max 610m from tippety top to bottom.
How do you fix that? Scaffolding?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
So Scotland doesn't have mountains, snow, weather or the infrastructure??? Are you serious
My point was simply that it doesn't have BIG enough mountains, ENOUGH snow, a reasonable expectation of decent weather, or sufficient infrastructure around the ski areas.
Quote:
Remember Whistler a few years back when snow was "shipped" in
Where would you ship it from? Norway?
Quote:
What do you think was at Sochi before they started developing it for the 2014 Winter Olympics?
Well, Sochi is the 'Russian Riviera' with all the infrastructure. The mountains have a 1,760m vertical drop. And for Russia it is a vanity project on which they are happy to lavish a lot of money regardless of whether they ever see a return on that investment.
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under a new name, From the top of Glencoe, to the road going to Loch Etive is an 800m + frop, pretty steep terrain, maybe a course could be built there?
foxtrotzulu, farm the snow, man made snow from snow cannons etc and build it up over time.
I dont get this weather part. Its the winter Olympics. It will be Cold and unpredictable just like any mountain range.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ricklovesthepowder, how often is there snow to the road? Not very often.
You are mad.
Snow cannons? What snow cannons? Cold and unpredictable? You are stark raving bonkers.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quebec nearly got the Olympics with the crazy idea of extending the downhill run onto a floating pontoon on the St. Lawrence River in order to make the stipulated length. Any host will have to spend a lot of money on facilities, and I really don't understand beequin's claim that the sliding center would be such a large obstacle to overcome. I know you Brits may be going through one of your periodic bouts of self-doubt and malaise, but it's a damn sled track, not some daunting feet of engineering magic.
Not saying a Scotland Olympics is a good idea, just that it isn't complete pie in the sky.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ami in berlin, so this 800m, is that the vertical minimum, or the length of the track?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ricklovesthepowder, if 800m was the length you could host the winter olympics in the field behind my family home. Just as likely as it happening at Glencoe unfortunately.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Alans deep bath, Well thats what i thought. I was just a little confused as to how Quebec wanted to extend their potential course onto a pontoon in a river!!!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ricklovesthepowder wrote:
Alans deep bath, Well thats what i thought. I was just a little confused as to how Quebec wanted to extend their potential course onto a pontoon in a river!!!
Skiiers land on pontoon, pontoon sinks to bottom of river, extra vertical drop achieved...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ricklovesthepowder, you can take 200m off the vertical drop if it extends on to a body of water.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ami in berlin, producing four feet thickness of ice and keeping it solid for a random week in Scotland. Trivial.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ricklovesthepowder, Vertical minimum. It might just about be achievable at Nevis if you can find a route, but the competitors might have to take a cat up.
ami in berlin, producing four feet thickness of ice and keeping it solid for a random week in Scotland. Trivial.
They manage it in Altenberg and Winterberg, Germany every year on the World Cup circuit. I assure you these locations have winter conditions and temperatures that are every bit as variable as Scotland.
Science and technology has moved on a tad in the 100 years or so since the first tracks were created in St. Moritz.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For an FIS homologated downhill course it's not the 800m minimum stipulated for the vertical descent that is the biggest problem (a 920m vertical descent can be done on CairnGorm Mountain and hour by hour modeling shows it could be classified as technically viable - achieving 100days of skiable cover even in seasons like 2007) but it's other critical criteria, arguably the most problematic being the required minimum width of the piste the course is set on and the degree of ground works expected - it would be like building a Dual Carriageway to the Summit!
Getting individual FIS world cup events even like slalom seem impossible and the farce over the 1998 Europa Cup might have killed that chance off for good (that event was moved many weeks in advance because of inadequate snow on CairnGorm Mountain, only for come the date of the event there to be insufficient snow at the new Italian venue and full cover on CairnGorm....). Another side to this is that getting such an individual event would be far from universally popular with the home grown snowsports market for which there is not much time for competitive alpine disciplines - to put it politely.
Thats deeper than the last 3 Olympic downhill venues have recorded on their upper slopes (Whistler 265cm, Sestriere 140cm and Snowbasin 165cm) on the SCGB website. The SCGB report 150cm at Cairngorm on their upper pistes yesterday.
The only weather related problem I can see is wind. The environmental lobby however
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thats deeper than the last 3 Olympic downhill venues have recorded on their upper slopes (Whistler 265cm, Sestriere 140cm and Snowbasin 165cm) on the SCGB website. The SCGB report 150cm at Cairngorm on their upper pistes yesterday.
Yes, but that is exceptional. If you look at the SCGB historical snow you would see that this time last year there was NO snow, either at the top or lower down. There have been years when this was true for any of the other months. Look at 2002/3 for example.
The vertical available at Nevis is 560m and at Glencoe, 430m. There are the odd few days when you can ski to the road, but it is relatively rare for the snow line to be lower than I have quoted. The vertical at Cairngorm is actually 470m. Lifts are not permitted above where they are now and Coire na Ciste is too gentle for a race track. Pedestrian access to the top of Cairngorm is tolerated on the correct assumption that few people will do it (in the summer walkers are not permitted to go up the lift and walk up from there for exactly that reason).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 15-03-13 15:00; edited 4 times in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Apologies, slightly off topic, but probably not meriting a separate thread. Bill Johnson - what a slightly bizarre skiing "career" and rather sad decline thereafter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnson_(skier) I'd not heard about him before, so thanks for posting that YT link what...snow.
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what...snow, Sarajevo's Bjelasnica resort where the Olympic track was has a quoted vertical of 800m and the course was 2 miles long (about normal for a downhill).
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
what...snow, Sarajevo's Bjelasnica resort where the Olympic track was has a quoted vertical of 800m and the course was 2 miles long (about normal for a downhill).
They only got enough vertical in because they built a huge temporary building on top of the mountain. If you compare the the top of the downhill course with the top of the mountain - they started the downhill ABOVE the summit! You can see the building in my last post. Konrad Bartelski was rather scathing about the whole thing in his autobiography IIRC. The resort hasn't actually got adequate vertical.
'Yes, but that is exceptional.'
Since 3 years out of the last 20 or so have definitely not had enough snow, I'd describe those (2012, 2007 etc) as the unusual ones. This is far from the best Scottish ski season. To find a better one you only have to go back to 2011 then 2010 then 2008 then 2006 etc. I haven't cherrypicked these figures.
'The vertical at Cairngorm is actually 470m.'
The vertical descent is surely 1097 - 550 = 547m You don't have to go via Coire na Ciste to get to the car park there. It could be 1244 -350 (Glenmore) = 894m. Maybe if there was a Glenmore Gondola, no ski road and a piste already in place this would be easier to visualise. Wouldn't involve building above the summit either!
Even at the Ciste car park level you are only 150m above the tree line below which a ribbon of snow for a piste could be preserved fairly easily. Just check Winterhighland's Clashindarroch thread for snow cover at a similar altitude. I think the owner of Highland Instinct website has written a PhD on this subject and he is very positive about it. There is probably lots of relevant stuff in the 'Glenmore Gondola' thread over there too.
Obviously there would need to be some significant decisions (no doubt annoying some lobby groups with strident voices) and use of the whole mountain rather than the throttled, disjointed and frustrating ski area currently in place, but surely that would be the whole point of the exercise.
I'm not saying that this will (or even should) happen, just that the standard 'not enough snow' argument is erroneous. Mention the wind and I'd have some sympathy.
I thought someone else might be interested in (the unusual) Bill Johnson story so thanks Chasseur.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
what...snow, ok, so there isn't enough elevation, not enough snow and too much wind.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ricklovesthepowder wrote:
Donald Trump is currently ploughing millions into a golfing complex, maybe he would consider something to help out in the Highlands.
After the grief he has got from the locals I very much doubt he would. In-fact I think if he could turn back the clock he would never have invested in the golf project.
Very nice thought, but I think you need to take a reality check on this.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
snowball wrote:
Chasseur What a depressing end.
Yeah, but what a brief bright light.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
what...snow wrote:
Quote:
what...snow, Sarajevo's Bjelasnica resort where the Olympic track was has a quoted vertical of 800m and the course was 2 miles long (about normal for a downhill).
They only got enough vertical in because they built a huge temporary building on top of the mountain. If you compare the the top of the downhill course with the top of the mountain - they started the downhill ABOVE the summit! You can see the building in my last post. Konrad Bartelski was rather scathing about the whole thing in his autobiography IIRC. The resort hasn't actually got adequate vertical.
No, the CURRENT vertical is 800m. Which is much more than to the Choir na Ciste carpark
Quote:
'Yes, but that is exceptional.'
Since 3 years out of the last 20 or so have definitely not had enough snow, I'd describe those (2012, 2007 etc) as the unusual ones. This is far from the best Scottish ski season. To find a better one you only have to go back to 2011 then 2010 then 2008 then 2006 etc. I haven't cherrypicked these figures.
Yes, but you can't just hope the Winter Olympics have a bit of snow, you have to fairly certain.
Quote:
'The vertical at Cairngorm is actually 470m.'
The vertical descent is surely 1097 - 550 = 547m You don't have to go via Coire na Ciste to get to the car park there.
The most direct way to the Coire na Ciste car-park is via Choir na Ciste. Any other route would be even less steep.
Quote:
It could be 1244 -350 (Glenmore) = 894m. Maybe if there was a Glenmore Gondola, no ski road and a piste already in place this would be easier to visualise. Wouldn't involve building above the summit either!
Even at the Ciste car park level you are only 150m above the tree line below which a ribbon of snow for a piste could be preserved fairly easily. Just check Winterhighland's Clashindarroch thread for snow cover at a similar altitude. I think the owner of Highland Instinct website has written a PhD on this subject and he is very positive about it. There is probably lots of relevant stuff in the 'Glenmore Gondola' thread over there too.
I know you can fairly often ski down there but how reliable is it? It has never been possible to ski in the trees when I visited. To be honest I don't know. You couldn't get rid of the road but you could build a bridge over it. Why did they get rid of the lift from the car park?
Quote:
Obviously there would need to be some significant decisions (no doubt annoying some lobby groups with strident voices) and use of the whole mountain rather than the throttled, disjointed and frustrating ski area currently in place, but surely that would be the whole point of the exercise.
I'm not saying that this will (or even should) happen, just that the standard 'not enough snow' argument is erroneous. Mention the wind and I'd have some sympathy.
I'm not sure that the wind is very relevant except in sweeping off the snow (which is part of what we were talking about before.) The racers like it icy.
Quote:
I thought someone else might be interested in (the unusual) Bill Johnson story so thanks Chasseur.
Yes, i knew about his glory days but didn't know what horrible depths he has sunk to. But nice to see his Olympic run again - thanks.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
^ stick a winding run highish down the face of the east wall of the ciste diving back down via gulley #2 and that livens it up a bit
Ski cross down to glenmore - 2 racers on each verge straight down the road, bonus for excursions onto blacktop
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hmm, forget FIS Rules, make it a derby. No control gates, no rules, Ptarmigan to Glenmore, fastest wins, air transport not allowed.
under a new name, ah yes, like the early days of skiing.
In the mid or early 30s my father took part in a race like that. The world champion was in it. My dad knew a gully that was a short cut and had just enough snow in it. He took it and won (and beat the world champion).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
Lifts are not permitted above where they are now
That is not the case and though the National Planning Policy Guidelines are now no longer in force, what was in them still carries some weight and for what normally only covered very general policy guidelines, the NPPG12 was exceptional in explicitly supporting development of the Marquis Well's area and Eastwards expansion beyond Coire na Ciste on CairnGorm. It's worth noting that the Marquis Well snow field that lies between the Summit and the top of the Ptarmigan Tow is formally within the Snowsports Area. Planning permission for the Marquis Well T-bar was re-granted in the final planning process for the Funicular, but not enacted on as delays to the Funicular caused costs to rise and the available budget to shrink.
A safety argument is often advanced as a reason for not progressing a Marquis Well Tow on the basis of 'breaching the watershed', but it's a bogus argument as the Ptarmigan Tow already does so and the natural lie of the terrain in the Marquis Well means the snow field funnels people back to the Ptarmigan Tow. If it was a valid argument there wouldn't be a summit tow at Nevis Range were a short distance away you can ski off a massive cliff!
under a new name, ah yes, like the early days of skiing.
In the mid or early 30s my father took part in a race like that. The world champion was in it. My dad knew a gully that was a short cut and had just enough snow in it. He took it and won (and beat the world champion).
Please elaborate, sounds like a really interesting tale. Where, when etc.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hmmmm...........at last someone shares my vision for scotland!
Someone whose inaugural press release is totally delusional?
Having aspiration is fine but it helps build a broader base of support if that aspiration is reasonable rather than. built on unicorns and fairy tears.
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snowball, brilliant.
Bit like the Inferno where an early winner took the surprisingly direct line of schussing down the funicular track to Lauterbrunnen.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
You don't have to go via Coire na Ciste to get to the car park there. It could be 1244 -350 (Glenmore) = 894m. Maybe if there was a Glenmore Gondola, no ski road and a piste already in place this would be easier to visualise. Wouldn't involve building above the summit either!
