Exercises to improve carving (serious now....)

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spyderjon, yep, as I said above, that's pretty much exactly what I worked out last night - the difference over what I was was trying to do previously being that I was now thinking about pointing the knee forward into the turn rather than just out (as in the "hand on the inside of the knee" exercise).

The point about pressuring the inside ski was that if you were consciously trying to stop the inside ski advancing you'd have to pull your foot back, and so increase the flex of the inside boot, which you could only do by pressuring the front of the ski more.

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comprex, Are you saying that advancing the inside ski (or as you say, trailing the outside hip) is not a good thing?

I was of the belief that some slight 'counter rotation' of the hips (ie towards to the line) was a good thing which is of course what you're doing if you're outside hip is trailing slightly?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

spyderjon, I learned it not as a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing' but rather as an indicator of what sort of turn I wish to make. If I'm doing short, deep turns, on steep terrain, in the fall line, then I don't care about inside lead.

The other side of the coin is those effortless enormous arcs on 193cm GS skis when the whole body is just riding along, and where inside lead makes it that much harder to transition to the next turn without hop or unweight. I hate having my reverie interrupted by pesky hop-hop.

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comprex, Yep, I follow that. Thanks.

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After all it is free

spyderjon,

"counter-rotation" vs being "square" to the turn is one of those things that is a matter of opinion depending on who you speak to, and goes in and out of fashion. Counter-rotation is the older technique, then a few years back with the advent of carving skis some instructors were encouraging people to ski more "square". Now they're back to counter-rotation. There's no right or wrong way of skiing, only more efficient ways. So learn to do both to have in your "toolbox", then you can adapt according to the circumstances, as comprex said.

beanie1, I was with Warren on Fri night at Xscape & asked him the same question & got your answer. That must also then make you a skiing god (sorry, goddess). From now on I will be forever in your tracks wink

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spyderjon, if I happen to feel athletic, and if I happen to have been caught out with soft, fat pow skis on umm, less soft surface, there's a really fun little rumba I like to do:

Start the top of the C by using muscle to exaggerate inside lead very early with the hip whilst edging as with a usual turn. Then, when the outside tip engages the snow to take you 'round, snap the hips the other way so that they're square (to travel direction and skis) in the middle, then finish the bottom of the C with exaggerated -outside- lead.

AKA how to make 90mm wide Volant Chubbs ski 10m turns in an ice chute. Takes a fair bit of angulation and muscle work, but can be heaps of fun and very stable in choppy conditions. If easiski or beanie1 know a formal name for this, I haven't heard it.

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comprex, That's a brave move to do for the first time.

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this is all to complicated, hire a good carving instructer 1 to 1 and just follow and try and copy his movements etc

You know it makes sense.

Still trying to puzzle out the hip positions in some of the old 'downstem' threads.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I couldn't get the hang of carving on skis, so I spent a day on snowblades which carve without any real effort to get the feel of it and was then able to translate that to skis. Don't know if any instructors on here think this is a valid learning technique!

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MelEllis,

Yes, it's a good way to get people used to what carving feels like.

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spyderjon,

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

hi guys - like you I'm working on my carving skills - bit lengthy - but here's a wee doc I put together on things I've cribbed from our friends at Epic + other sources. Bit anoraky but I read this + look at video playback of myself prior and after practice sessions - happy ready, dave
DG’ Development – GS & SL Turns

Skis

Same edge angle, distance constant, clean tracks throughout turn
No a-frame

Body

Zero upper body rotation to initiate turn
Keep hands still – no punching hands in pole plant

DG’s Racing Tips

Doing a lot of railroad tracks on gentle terrain, moving edge to edge, making continuous linked arcs without skidding. Turn a lot (cleanly) and use the whole trail from edge to edge.

For drills to work on I'd suggest placing heavy focus on those that enhance lateral balance. Sounds like this may be an area that needs improving.

Try these:
On easy to moderate terrain do some two footed rail turns in which you focus on a smooth, progressive roll onto the new edges during the transition. Develop a very sensitive feel of the transition roll. Feel the skis slowly lose edge angle, go flat, and then gradually gain edge angle on the other side. You should know exactly where you are in the cycle at any point in time.

At first keep your maximum edge angles small, your turn radius large, and make your transitions on a moderate angle to the falline. When you feel the clean, progressive roll happening you can sharpen the turns a bit, continue rolling up to somewhat larger edge angles, and increase your angle to the falline at the transition. Do these while still feeling the smooth roll and clean carve initiation.

Slalom turns do take patience and timing even though they are of short duration. Tipping the skis more with your ankles and less knee angulation will help the A-frame and get you better edge engagement and being patient can help the diverenge. Also keep the tips of your skis equally engaged by flexing both ankles, a lazy inside foot will not track the same as the outside foot.

Its easy to rush things in a short radius turn and end up rotating a bit into the turn. This results in moving the CM inside to quickly forcing the inside hip down and back. The results are ending up with to much weight on the inside ski at the top of the turn, a wedge entry, divergence and hanging onto the turn to long.

If the shoulders are parallel to the slope (the way you want it to be), you have angulation. Depending on speed/ability/terrain/etc. you may angulate with your knees, hips or mid. Keeping your shoulders square and actually driving your outside shoulder down is the key to a powerful carve.

Think about leading into the turn with the inside knee - by consciously pointing it and my thigh in the direction I wanted to go. This a) got the inside ski onto its edge much more happily, b) advanced it in front of my outside leg and c) got the shortened inside leg - all quite naturally together.

....the inside ski is where the ACTIVITY is and the outside ski is where the ACTION is. i hope that doesn't muddy the water.

i'll give you two ACTIVITIES that may translate into a sense of what i'm talking about.

1. Stand on a slope and get rid of your poles for a moment. if your uphill foot is in this case the left foot, focus only on the left boot. attempt to slowly tip your left boot until the buckles nearly touch the snow. forget about your right leg. as you do this allow yourself to become grossly bow legged. it is just a drill to exagerate the movement and to create a little muscle memory. have the movement originate in the foot via INVERSION. don't drive the knee, or angulate at the hip, or shift weight. eventually feel as though your left knee is being drawn to the snow as movement moves up the kinetic chain now, stand back up, grab your poles and slowly ski across the slope on a gentle traverse going to the left and again tip your left foot. forget about your right foot. it will mimic the left foot and be drawn into the movement. the goal is for movement to originate with the inside foot and to involve it as opposed to movement merely involving the outside leg.

Upper body angulation – imagine sliding down the hill sideways on a bar tray. You could even have a bar tray to carry down the hill – stop the drinks from spilling.

Imagine your feet are round and you have to keep rolling them from side to side!

consistent fore/aft neutral balance.
> consistent lateral balance
> a gently rolled initiation, and progressive edge angle development.
> body movements that impose NO twisting/steering influence on the skis.
> a loose, reactive lower body that regulates pressure on the snow so it remains consistent over undulating terrain.
> a smooth release of the arc that allows the process to repeat in the next turn.

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ive come to the conclusion no matter what i read on here I will have forgetten all of it by the time i reach a slope....

and....

youve just got to get out there and ski !

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

spyderjon, What is A framing please ?

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beanie1, spyderjon, GrahamN, What is wrong with this technique...

move the knees left to go left, right to go right, keep legs apart for stability and keep low so as balance is easier.

I'm quite new to this but it seems to work.

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mike.healy, I believe it is when your knees are closer together than your feet. The correct stance or position is with calves parelell or 'O' framed as Warren Smith kept trying to drum into me.

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mike.healy, I can buy most of that, but I'm not so sure about the "keep low" part. You should be able to flex deeply (all joints) and stand up tall as well. Also, I think less about the knees and more about the feet and/or the femurs, since knees only bend in the fore/aft direction.

The idea, though, is to keep the leg shafts (relatively) parallel. To do this, I suggest thinking about moving the new inside foot/ski/leg first (just a bit before the other). This gets it moving and out of the way of the other foot/ski/leg, which is what you want.

justapurrin, ssh, beanie1, spyderjon, GrahamN, Warren Smith's no 1 DVD arrrived on Friday so the picture's getting clearer. I think a lot of it with me is gaining confidence, at the moment I will happily go down any slope on which I think I could come to a controlled stop. I wonder if that applies to all skiers, can those going fast on steep Black runs stop if they have to ?

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mike.healy, of course. Just bump a tree or rock... Shocked

Actually, in general, it's not necessarily stop, but avoid. Turning uphill is a good trick, as well. In soft snow, a simple dive into the snow can do wonders.

Usually, even at high speed, I can avoid skiers and other things below me, make rapid direction changes (a knee wiggle works wonders on carving skis!), and generally keep myself (and others! Twisted Evil

) out of trouble. Hope this helps...

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ssh, wrt 'keep low': what are your thoughts on the drill of: hold both ski poles like a french fencing grip then trace both tips on the snow, without letting the downhill ski pole lose contact with the snow.

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comprex, that's a very good drill, as is just doing a double pole drag (normal grip). It keeps your upper body at the right angle to the slope, and gives tactical feedback when you aren't aligned well. Most of the racers I know do this often, especially early in the season.

ssh, I had a very enlightening conversation last year regarding angulation and weight distribution. We can leave the later till elsetime. I was most surprised to hear that my angulation has slipped and it was suggested I play with keeping downhill pole on slope through turn.

Massive difference in performance and my personal happiness...

Good drill IMPE

You know it makes sense.

If you are hacking..and I mean as fast as your dare, down a fast run, then I think a low stance is very good...in fact almost a prerequiste... and it keeps the hands in the right position.

If you standing up then you aren't going the fastest you can
IMO... and thats ok if thats what you are trying to do

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The instructor I had last week suggested something that seemed illogical to me at first but worked a treat. Carry out a series of parallel turns but at the point of turn initiation, compress instead of extend and simultaneously roll the skis onto the opposite edges and drive the new inside foot forward in a kind of rolling/scooping motion. As long as not too much edge angle is applied, the skis will skid round without ever becoming unweighted. This can be applied to a carving turn, just with more edge angle and it means both skis are fully compressed throughout the entire carve. The great thing is that you can practice this at slow speeds quite happily. it worked for me, anyway Very Happy

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Sharkymark, I think you have just summed up why there is so little written word on ski instruction wink

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Sharkymark, interesting description.

The first thing I noticed was that I am already compressed at turn initiation: it is part of being ready to pole plant at the finish of the last turn.

That rolling/scooping seems to correspond to what I think of as edged forward pressure (on the inside ski in this instance). Can't say for sure as I don't know what is happening at the hip.

Maybe my technique is off, but I seem to get cleaner angulation if I extend during the belly of the turn. (To compress again at turn finish, ready to pole plant).

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Frosty the Snowman, I could've done it in one sentence Very Happy

comprex, I guess you have to extend somewhere otherwise at the bottom of the hill you'd be sitting on the skis!

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Sharkymark, it becomes a question of timing the compression then (I like it as previous turn finish)? And extending into angulation?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

That sounds about right. I think the idea is to keep both skis loaded throughout the turn rather than unweighting and leaving nasty smears on the snow...

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Sharkymark, have a look at the Ted Ligety interview here.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Everything progressive. Everything. Tipping, angles, pressure, everything!!! Nothing sudden, drastic, or otherwise irregular.

Help!!

Exercises to improve carving (serious now....)

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