 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Saturday Night Fever turns.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was told to do not far from WTFH says! Interestingly I know if im going it right because the movement forces my diaphragm to move as it not normally does, so if i hold my breath and can hear breathing..... then i know im on the right track! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Sorry ? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wouldn't call it an exercise maybe, but low carving ability, as with much else in skiing, is mostly in the mind. A large percentage of recreational skiers are perhaps unhappy with the feeling of the skis moving away from underneath their bodies? - hence they can never properly angulate. It's the same with vertical movement - many skiers appear to have iron rods stuck down their one-pieces from neck to ankle.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Tell me more.
I don't think my instructor in April mentioned these turns
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ski, it's done without poles, and involves making moves which bear a similarity to John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.
If you want to turn to the left, then point your left hand up into the air, and slightly away from your body. To turn right, point your right hand.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowskisnow wrote: |
| Watched a part of a DVD in Lockwoods the other day(may have been Warren Smith?)which talked about toppling. |
It might have been Phil Smith. His DVD 'Ultimate Control' talks about turn initiation using toppling. Details of of the DVD at www.snoworks.co.uk/i-skiing/dvd.html
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowskisnow, that's very similar to what PMTS call the "phantom move", which, to my understanding is: lift the inside ski and tip it into the turn, then the outside ski will follow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Thanks. I assume it works best if your clients sing the tune at the same time ?
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Linds, you mean this one of you...
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You know it makes sense.
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Looks like a variation of the teapot exercise!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar.org.uk, yeah, similar (I've also heard it called "superman turns")
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk, yeah, similar (I've also heard it called "superman turns") |
Teapot seems to be used as a focus on angulation, so pushing the hand on the hip (the teapot's 'handle') is meant to pronounce the feeling of hip angulation. Does the superman turn involve just one hand elevated into the turn?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can imagine 'Superman turns' being more motivating than 'teapot turns' with certain groups of skiers!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Linds, yes, you have to sing the nursery rhyme as you're doing it  I've also seen junior racers use it as a training exercise as they are blasting down a tight GS course at high speed (although they probably weren't singing).
Wear The Fox Hat, I read that phantom move stuff. It sounded incredibly complicated for what is a pretty simple concept. I felt like I was being inducted into a religous cult by the time I'd finished reading the PMTS website. Phil Smith keeps it simple (and effective in my opinion) by just talking about reducing the weight on the inside leg when you cross from one turn into another. No lifting, no tipping, no having to think about many things at once.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
reducing the weight on the inside leg when you cross from one turn into another
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I agree that's a helpful description. It does beg the question "how" though. I'd say gradually relax or soften the outside knee/ankle, this naturally reduces the resistance to your CM and allows it to flow (fall!) down the hill causing your skis to roll.
The "gradually" bit is important for a smooth transition.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jedster wrote: |
| Quote: |
reducing the weight on the inside leg when you cross from one turn into another
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I agree that's a helpful description. It does beg the question "how" though. I'd say gradually relax or soften the outside knee/ankle, this naturally reduces the resistance to your CM and allows it to flow (fall!) down the hill causing your skis to roll.
The "gradually" bit is important for a smooth transition. |
Yes, I'd also say gradually soften the old outside leg (until it becomes the new inside leg), but some people may prefer to focus on the effect (eg toppling sideways into the new turn) rather than the cause (eg softening the outside leg)?
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jedster, rob@rar.org.uk, the term out coach uses is "pedalling", lengthening the outside leg and shortening the inside one. As most people normally don't do that enough, it certainly helped me to actually lift the inside ski off the mat and ski on only the outside leg - only going back to two skis when I'd "got" that. To get the transitions smooth we also try huge GSy turns, maybe 2 or max 3 in 100m, trying to keep the extension/compression movements going throughout the turns.
Once that's sorted, to help with getting the inside leg doing something useful, there's the good old favourite of skiing (without poles) with the palms on the inside of the knees, pushing the inside knee into each turn.
But surely ski, as an instructor already this is all old hat to you?
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| Phil Smith keeps it simple (and effective in my opinion) by just talking about reducing the weight on the inside leg when you cross from one turn into another. No lifting, no tipping, no having to think about many things at once. |
Interesting. Warren Smith keeps it equally as simple & talks about 'softening' the inside leg to initiate the turn/crossover. It's obviously a Smith thing. Works for me though.
Warren's also a fan of the teapot exercise but only so long as the hand on your hip gives a real good firm push to ensure angulation. No hard push & your accused of 'mincing'
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar.org.uk,
| Quote: |
Im a little teapot
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How embarrasing,
I have been humming that stupid tune all night fortunatly I work with people who are mad, have kids and are skiers so they want to know what sort of carving would you get to the song "The Wheels on the Bus" ?
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is it me or does it look like twilight in that picture @ MK ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Royal wrote: |
| is it me or does it look like twilight in that picture @ MK ? |
Better?
That's the camera pointing at lights.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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MartinH, how did you do that?
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GrahamN,
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But surely ski, as an instructor already this is all old hat to you?
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Yes - but it's always good to see what others think and use 
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| MartinH, how did you do that? |
Apologies to WTFH and whoever is on the picture! Stealing internet content is far too easy. Did you notice I 'improved' the angulation too?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| MartinH, how did you do that? |
Looking at the punters in the picture, I think there're a few members of WeightWatchers who would like to know too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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cunning stunt.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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MartinH, it was just taken on my phone - as for the angulation, at the kind of speeds there is in MK, I've never noticed much angulation!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, That's pretty good for camera phone, mine is nowhere near that, especially in low light.
I see racers on Sundays at Castleford, they certainly angulate. If you have enough speed to lean into the turn, it shouldn't be a problem.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, is advancing the inside leg a desirable thing or not? I think I've read conflicting advice on this recently. I did a one-day course with warren Smith several years ago at Tamworth and he was very keen on leading the turn with the inside thigh.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I couldn't teach an Arab how to cut off a hand, however, i would say. " look where you wan't to go, push hard with the outside leg and hold, push harder to finish the turn, un- weight, change direction or un- weight and stop. The rest will follow as you grin harder. Do you love speed? If not, leave it, it's not the scenic route. 
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rob@rar.org.uk, don't know the official line on that. It does seem to me though to be a natural and pretty inevitable consequence of shortening your inside leg (which is necessary when you've got a fair bit of angulation going). Unless that is you angle your inside shin back and flex the inside boot a lot more than the outside one. That would seem though to be sticking an awful lot of pressure on the front of the inside ski, which is not obvious to me is 'a good thing', since you still want a fair bit of your weight on the outside ski for grip.
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| Does the superman turn involve just one hand elevated into the turn? |
No, to get the full superman turn wear your underpants over your ski-pants.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar.org.uk, You're right re Warren's thigh steering doctrine. This was also covered on my recent ASSI course.
GrahamN, 'soften' the inside leg/flex the inside ankle & then rotate the femur to the inside - I just think of it as pointing my inside knee where I want to go. This increases the lean of the inner leg & the inside ski's edge angle & consequently the outside ski angle follows suit.
Initiating with the inside thigh therefore also removes any A framing.
This move does advance the inside leg slightly but that is not a deliberate move, it just happens.
Because your inside ankle is flexed & your leg is 'soft' it does not put excessive pressure on the inside ski.
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FAQ
! What exercises would you suggest 
, to improve you clients ability to carve ?
, Aldershot's just bought a few new pairs of Scrambler 400s which haven't yet had time to get knackered) may have helped too. I would estimate it made me about 10-20% faster than previously - it was actually quite scary 