 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fair enough.
But......
This year we lost the profit on the equivalent of 63 package holiday sales on "debit" card charges. The OFT is wrong about debit card charges being the same as cash.
Most "credit" cards now charge us between 3 and 5% to process.
We simply don't take American Express as they take they mick with charges.
Unlike airlines we have always assumed that people are going to pay their deposit with a card and work this into the sale price. We assume that it will be a 50/50 spread for debit and credit cards. Of course this means that we are slightly overcharging (by around £5.50) anyone who does pay with a debit card.
For the final payment we inform people of the credit card charges and ask them to either pay by bank transfer or cheque. But as people have an idea that they will be more protected if they pay by credit card many people (38% last year) still choose to pay by credit card.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wayne wrote: |
| This year we lost the profit on the equivalent of 63 package holiday sales on "debit" card charges. The OFT is wrong about debit card charges being the same as cash. |
Actually I don't think they are wrong. To the consumer it is the same as cash. It comes straight from your bank account with no credit, no protection etc.
To you you as a business it may not be the same as cash - BUT it is just an essential a cost of doing business. And actually it gets the money direct into your bank account with very little administrative effort at your side. So no point moaning.
I suspect the 2-3% charged by the debit/credit card companies to you is less than it would cost you in lost sales if you didn't take them, and less than it would cost you to administer a cashier to take cash and cheque payment for everything, and do bank reconcilliations every week.
I don't see why businesses moan about card charges, as you say the charges get passed on to the customer one way or another anyway.
And why is it only the service industry that whine about this ? Retail just accept it as a key part of taking payment for business, cost it into their sale prices, and get on with it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Gazzza,
I'll consider myself told then 
PS - I do like a good whinge now and again though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good on the OFT in this case. Anything that is not optional/avoidable should be in the headline/advertised price. Anything else is just BS.
I'll sell you my new car for £1. But I only take payment by debit card, and I charge a £30,000 debit card fee. Come on, you can't refuse the bargain of a car for £1 can you ??
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Actually perhaps I will try paying by AMEX on my next visit to Greggs for a Steak Bake ??
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Now the the airlines (all except Lufthansa IME) just TTP when you try and take your skis, and luggage!
They get you one way or another, wierd how a £24.99 EJ flight and a £35.99 flight back for 2 people and skis with luggage comes in at £360, they can keep 'em, my car and Eurotunnel soon sorts that conundrum out these days.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
This year we lost the profit on the equivalent of 63 package holiday sales on "debit" card charges. The OFT is wrong about debit card charges being the same as cash.
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Wayne, to be fair the comparison with cash is not the best one to make, as any owner of a cash based business will tell you that there are marked costs to handling/banking cash. The comparison is best made with cheques (or these days) bank transfers, these are the cheapest way of receiving money and so the MO in most B2B transactions, which tend to be of higher transactional values than B2C.
Your dead right though that receiving money via cards is a big cost to businesses, and also right that in an ideal system there would be differentiation between debit and credit cards.
The main point I guess is that the cheapest viable payment option for the customer/airline (debit card, no doubt) should be built into the price, then any 'premium' payment methods can be charged on top.
PS the fact that cash costs money to bank is the real reason your supermarket is so keen for you to take cashback (they are not doing you any favours, folks), you can be sure once demand for cash outstrips supply from the tills then the 'service' will become restricted.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 5-07-12 11:56; edited 1 time in total
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Just developing my whinge above a bit further the car hire companies have also gone giddy with their prices too, its now Lufthansa and trains that offer us the best solution, 5-10 years ago it ws Jet2/ EJ that was our preferred eay of getting to the Alps but theyve got greedy, the long weekends dont stack up anymore, shame but until the budget (NOT) airlines sort themselves out we'll be doing full weeks and travelling by other means.
Anyone else found decent ways to get to/ from the Alps from oop North, its pretty expensive these days IME (like just about everything else in rip-off Britain!!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
5-10 years ago it ws Jet2/ EJ that was our preferred eay of getting to the Alps but theyve got greedy,
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Markymark29, i still get 2 trips a year to Chamonix using Jet2 and don't pay more than £60 return (£100 if you add in a return transfer to/from GVA). Bloody hard to resist too, when I can see the LBIA runway from where I'm sat now.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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midgetbiker, Agreed but if you need to carry skis and luggage like normal Jo's it doesnt work (think you leave gear out there). I too can see the planes approaching LBA, they circle above my house prior to landing and it grates that they see as to rip people off who strangely enough might need luggage and skis to go skiing. Loads of my pals used to do the Thurs/ Mon Jet2 weekends 2-3x a year, now none of us do......I'd be really interested to see the Jet2 stats, there's less weekly flights at decent times going to the Alps (used to leave at 06.40 or so, now late morning so a waste of a day annual leave) and more now going for city breaks and summer destinations. I no longer look at Jet 2, every time I did it just worked out too expensive so gave up on them. 
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Markymark29, fair comment, my travel pattern of no luggage and mon-fri is 'fairly unusual' for a ski trip 
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You know it makes sense.
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midgetbiker, Thats the way to do it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In fact the only time I book a ski bag on is if I do it because we urgently need 4 or 5 'flat' pairs in France (or back to UK) and then the £30 never seems so bad. I can see how £60 for a return trip for 1 or 2 pairs does grate though.
It's not too significant to Whitedot as our market is global but for UK ski retailers it must be having a detrimental impact on sales. Conversely I guess if it makes people switch to driving down then of course they will 'need' more pairs of skis 
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Poster: A snowHead
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To me this all adds weight to the TO vs DIY debate. I was rather hoping to have a week with the flangesax and SH Austria gang next season as it seems my usual crowd of ski buddies are giving the season a miss. But initial investigation into the price of flights is making that seem a lot more expensive than a TO package deal to Austria by myself. It seems that cheap flights are no longer cheap...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| It seems that cheap flights are no longer cheap... |
Last couple of years ski flights and, especially, car hire have increased a lot. Booking early seems to be key to getting decent prices - recently paid less than £80 to fly to Venice with BA, and if I pack sensibly I will get my skis into the included allowance for hold luggage and will carry boots in my hand luggage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
It seems that cheap flights are no longer cheap
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That's why I've been calling "no-frills" flights... "no-frills". The no-frills airlines have brainwashed everyone into calling them "cheap airlines", to make people automatically just go straight to them without thinking. Sure they may have triggered a price drop across the whole sector, which is a good thing, but it now means that scheduled airlines are also often "cheap airlines" but with extra complimentary service, and can also be found c/o flight search websites (especially when you need connecting flights).
My last 4 LH flights, with skis, boots and a bag checked have all given me change from €100.
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andy, yes Lufthansa seem to be the best bet for me too, but they fly into Munich so I'll have to see if I can co-ordinate with the lovely Samerberg Sue. Flights into Salzburg and Innsbruck are few and far between and not cheap at all.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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andy is spot on with that description.
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[quote="rob@rar"]
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| It seems that cheap flights are no longer cheap... |
Last couple of years ski flights and, especially, car hire have increased a lot
Car hire especially has more to do with the exchange rate than anything else. as they are transferring the Euro cost into pounds it has been more expensive. With the pound hopefully getting stronger, you should see a drop in the cost of car rental. Unless you have already booked and paid.
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I just looked into buying flights only from Inghams to Innsbruck (due to lack of other availability on the required day). Then I saw the price - £360 each. A taxi from home would be cheaper!
I could have got a half board holiday with that flight from them for £440. I don't suppose they would offer me a half board hotel for £80 a week though.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Last couple of years ski flights and, especially, car hire have increased a lot. |
There is an extremely simple way of bringing down the cost of ski holidays. I propose that anyone turning up at an airport between November and April should be searched and if their baggage is found to contain anything that is likely to be used on a ski holiday, should pay a supplement of £250 for their flight, unless they can produce a Tour Operator issued ticket or flight voucher. Of course there would be a graduated scale, so that being in possession of a pair of skis (again without the obligatory TO ticket) would bring a further charge. Of course the heinous crime of owning a pair of fat skis (unless traveling to somewhere where there is even the remote chance that they may used as they are meant to ) would result in a refusal to board the aircraft.
The funds generated could be used to provide each resort with a number of highly visible signs (with various translations) to the effect of “there, told you it would cost you more”.
I shall be recommending this to the OFT for their next review of the tourist industry.
I am positive that every single member of this forum will whole-heatedly endorse this idea, being that it is a win-win proposal (more profit for over-worked TO’s and less DIY'ers Pic-Nic’ing on café terraces from sandwich boxes hidden in their second hand ski suits as they try and add yet another layer of carpet tape in a desperate attempt hold their cracked boots together, whilst shouting at their kids for daring to ask for a "ridiculously’ over-priced" mars bar)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wayne,
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FAQ
