 Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm about to switch over to a touring set set up and I have some beginner's touring questions for the collective snowHeads brain.
I'm wary of buying gear and then finding out I've landed myself in the Col de Sac of Kit Incompatibility, a place which can only be left by the forking out of large sums of dosh.
I've got Whitedot Redeemers and Preachers and I want to quiverkiller them and run a pair of Dynafit TLT bindings on both.
Would I be able to simply swap my existing 130mm brakes from a pair of Tyrolia Peak 18s into the new set up or do I have to buy a whole new set of brakes too?
Is this quiverkiller and brakes installation work a straightforward job for a S&R or EB ski techie to do?
(sorry Spyderjon - I'd much prefer you to do the work if possible but the cost and hassle of shipping both sets of skis out the door and then also being at home to pick em up is something I'm trying to avoid here)
How do brakes attach to the ski if they are not part of the TLT heelpiece and are they straightforward to switch over with the quiver killer system?
And any other general comments on what I'm thinking of doing here will be welcomed.
Thanks to all
Yours in anticipation
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
| I want to quiverkiller them and run a pair of Dynafit TLT bindings on both. |
Presuming you meant share one pair of Tech bindings between both not buy 2 sets !!
| Quote: |
| Would I be able to simply swap my existing 130mm brakes from a pair of Tyrolia Peak 18s into the new set up. How do brakes attach to the ski if they are not part of the TLT heelpiece and are they straightforward to switch over with the quiver killer system? |
The brakes are attached to the heelpiece. The brake plates rather annoyingly obscure the fixing screws to the ski so you'll need to open up and then reclose your heel gap every time you remove / refit the Dynafits.
| Quote: |
| Is this quiverkiller and brakes installation work a straightforward job for a S&R or EB ski techie to do? |
I wouldn't trust S&R / EB to do it. In my experience, they don't necessarily have a Dynafit jig at each shop and don't do a lot of touring bindings so I wouldn't put my faith in them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
running 130mm brakes on Dynfit bindings requires a spring change, not a difficult job, but care needed. Be my guest putting Dynafit bindings on Redeamers, but these big skis, all bent and that is not such a great idea. IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Big Paua, sorry but I'm unsure of what exactly you're trying to achieve. I'm assuming that you want to be able run both Peak & Dynafit bindings on your Redeemers & Preachers?
Firstly, brakes are binding manufacturer/model specific so you can't using a 130mm Peak brake with a Dynafit binding - if that's what you're asking?
Using Quiver Killer inserts it's no problem sharing your Peak bindings on the Redeemers/Preachers & you can use the 130mm Peak brake on both skis.
Using Quiver Killer inserts dual mounted in to your Redeemers/Preachers it's no problem sharing Dynafits across both skis, for which you will need a pair of 130mm Dynafit brakes. What you'll need to first check is whether there is a mounting hole conflict between the Peaks & the Dynafits. It might mean that you have to slightly compromise the mounting position of the Dynafits on the ski to ensure sufficient clearance between the holes.
Aside from the 5k 'in the flat' weight of the 190cm Redeemers I agree with CH20 that their very short 100cm running length would make skinning difficult. I'd suggest sharing the Peak's across both the Whitedots but only have a dual mount for the Dynafits on the Preachers.
Scott or Harry at Edge & Wax can install Quiver Killers for you which would save you the postage.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 24-06-12 13:33; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
You won't be touring much on the Redeemers unless you live in Japan. Not a criticism of the ski just it's big for most skin tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| You won't be touring much on the Redeemers unless you live in Japan. Not a criticism of the ski just it's big for most skin tracks. |
The 155mm front end width of the Preacher won't make things easy either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great stuff! Thanks all.
All replies have gone a long way to filling in considerable knowledge gaps and re-orientating my thinking on the way forward here.
I note the comments on the width of the WDs. I should've been clearer - I'm not considering long distance, hard core touring here - more like three to four hours off the lifts tops. I wouldn't have thought ( I could be wrong) that the width would make TOO much difference over that short period of time. I can see over a day/week that both the width and weight of the WDs would be pretty exhausting.
I realise I've yet to also investigate skin sizing, the politics of ski width and skin tracks (ooooer missus!). Do fat skis p*ss of those following? Why? Or do they just mean that the fat ski user has to push extra snow around and therefore the extra effort is his/her own problem?
spyderjon, Thanks for comprehensive answer. What I'm after - I now realise - is less weight all round while still using the WDs which I like a lot. If possible. You say one pair of Dynafits across both pairs is doable with Quiver Killers. We need to talk about that further and it would only be fair that I give you some business in in return and bug the transport difficulties. I'll give you a call sometime shortly.
One question though - sharing the Peaks across both sets of skis but having dual mountings for the Dynafits on one would mean I would have to have two pairs of boots, wouldn't it? i.e. or are there some Dynafit bindings that take both Alpine and Touring boots?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
I note the comments on the width of the WDs. I should've been clearer - I'm not considering long distance, hard core touring here - more like three to four hours off the lifts tops. I wouldn't have thought ( I could be wrong) that the width would make TOO much difference over that short period of time. I can see over a day/week that both the width and weight of the WDs would be pretty exhausting.
|
On flattish terrain, wider skis will be heavier but are fine to tour on. Your skis will be bigger than the ski tracks and they'll feel heavy but you just need to be fitter. It's when things get steeper that a skinny straight stiff ski is a lot easier to skin on than a fat, soft ski with a short effective edge. You'll destroy the ski track put in (if there is one) and it can feel quite precarious on hard snow on a fat waisted ski as your foot is further out from the slope and you've less edge to bite/skin in contact with the slope.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Big Paua, For short tours I don't understand why complecate matters with a Dynafit binding, for sure lighter, but for powering big skis, perhap the Marker TOUR?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Big Paua, many of the latest touring boots are stiff enough to drive bigger skis & have interchangeable Dynafit & Alpine toe & heel lugs. Alternatively, as suggested by CH20, you could share Marker Tours/Barons across the skis. How tall/heavy are you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
To me it all depends on what someone means when they say they are off touring. Even with day touring there are those who love the up and for who "the fun stops when the descent begins", and there are those who will suffer anything on the up just to reach an awesome descent with the best equipment underfoot for that part of the day.
I'm not here to pimp Whitedot but as there has the OP has 'dots and there has been a fair bit of talk about our skis: Both the Preacher and Redeemer are used by a number of folk for day touring (mainly with Duke/Baron type bindings), their size means they carry some weight (though often lighter than comparable skis), their width will act against you on a skinning track traverse ascending a steep slope, both remain viable options for the up if they are what you want for the down.
For me the best Whitedot available to date for touring is the Director, I've done a few ascents skinning (and carrying) these fellas and they are a good compromise between weight and float.
It's no secret that a lighter Redeemer is on it's way, speak to any of our retailers for details, I'll mention spyderjon specifically here as he's contributed to this thread.
Got to disagree with CH2O & spyderjon on the issue of rocker, the 1m of ski on the deck is right underfoot and not being lifted off by camber, so there is no issue skinning with the Director of Redeemer from this angle (as opposed to the width one).
Lots more stuff in the pipeline with touring in mind, so watch this space in the future.
There are many good skis out there to consider to fit this bill from other brands but I'm not qualified to talk about them (unlike others in the company who can give you chapter & verse on every ski out there) so this remains a very slanted commentary.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 26-06-12 20:03; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PS spyderjon will know for sure but I'm not convinced Dynafit do a crampon wide enough for Redeemers yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| midgetbiker wrote: |
| PS spyderjon will know for sure but I'm not convinced Dynafit do a crampon wide enough for Redeemers yet. |
Yep, the widest crampon they list in their 12/13 list is a 108mm. Marker do a 128mm crampon (for max ski width 120mm) but I've tried 'tweaking' their crampons before & they're mighty tough.
Didn't say you couldn't skin on a Redeemer just that it's got to be more difficult than on the Preacher, especially on hard snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
Didn't say you couldn't skin on a Redeemer just that it's got to be more difficult than on the Preacher, especially on hard snow.
|
+1
Skinning on a ski with 2m of Contact on hard pack is a whole lot easier (possible) than with 1m. How many true rando skis have camber? Might as well use Snowblades.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
How many true rando skis have camber?
|
How many true Rando skis aren't terrifying on the way down 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
How many true Rando skis aren't terrifying on the way down
|
Plenty.
Ever tried setting up a glacier rescue belay with skis like Director/Redeemer; Better off with Snowblades.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I think maybe we are straying into an area where the definition of 'true Rando' skis is as subjective as 'day touring'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Rando skis; A skis designed for touring ergo, Dynafit, K2, Voelkl, Dynastar all have such skis. If prehaps you are refering to "Rando Race", but we wouldn't be talking about that, given the profile of your skis doesn't "attempt" to cross that market.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You get the idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
This company make wide crampons for Dynafit bindings, up to 135mm wide.
http://www.bndskigear.com/dynafitcrampons.html
I bought some of their 115mm crampons for my DPS Wailers.
| spyderjon wrote: |
| midgetbiker wrote: |
| PS spyderjon will know for sure but I'm not convinced Dynafit do a crampon wide enough for Redeemers yet. |
Yep, the widest crampon they list in their 12/13 list is a 108mm. Marker do a 128mm crampon (for max ski width 120mm) but I've tried 'tweaking' their crampons before & they're mighty tough.
Didn't say you couldn't skin on a Redeemer just that it's got to be more difficult than on the Preacher, especially on hard snow. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Now I am genuinely confused, are we saying that something like our Director is radically different to your 'true Rando' ski like the Volkl Nunataq you link to, or that it's similar and is therefore a 'true Rando' ski itself.
I am not being facetious, I am now genuinely confused about the Direction (sic, now I am being humorous, badly) of the argument.
To be honest when you first wrote 'true Rando' my mental image was of the quite skinny but more importantly very soft, often shortish, skis that prioritise weight over stiffness, vibration damping & edge control. Nothing wrong with those skis either, just fit for a different purpose.,
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Kelskii, great link, thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Your ski hasn't had a core build speacially for Rando, to make it light, I can't imagine you would either, given that it is actucaly a snowblade with a long turned up nose and jamacain booty. These "cambers" don't work for pure mountain steeps, boiler plate etc. The skis i've linked to however are. That said nothing wrong with people putting whichever binding they want on any ski, despite common sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CH2O, you must have some very odd snowblades.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
CH2O, but the Nunataq you link to is flat camber with twin rocker, much like our Director. That said it is lighter as it was designed as a specific Touring Freeride ski whilst the Director (in standard construction) is a Freeride ski that makes a reasonable day tour option.
I've never skied the Nunataq so can't comment, but I'm sure it's a great ski as Volkl are a good manufacturer. I'll bet it's stronger in some situations than the Director and the Director is stronger in others. What I'm failing to see is where the gulf in design ethos lies that you percieve.
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious, and if you want to just let it lie then ignore me and I'll go away (should really be working anyway).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I see no answer was forthcoming...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I only started touring at the end of last season so not a real expert on this, but I will relay what I've learned from my limited experience and from others. As said above your Redeemers don't look suitable for touring. Too heavy, very short effective edge, too wide. It doesn't matter that you are only planning day tours on them (i.e. back by afternoon). The tour doesn't have to be long to have a real struggle on a traverse. Also, if you are planning to tour in Europe, if there is a dump that would justify using skis this wide, you will be normally skiing the resort until the snow settles and when it does 112mm waist should be plenty. Why don't you just mount Redeemers with Tyrolia and use Dynafits on another pair? Or mount your Preachers with Barons/Dukes depending on your DIN requirements. With Dukes you can use your normal alpine boots and they are solid on downhill. Dynafits will require AT boots, but if you only want to hike for some powder turns you will be better off with normal alpine boots. Another bindings that you can use are Fritschi Freerides Pro. I toured on them and found them quite good both on the up- and downhill. I ski resort with them too and never had any issues. I have to say though that I am a lightweight female (53kilos) and I read on Internet that some bigger dudes happened to break the toe piece skiing in resort, but I haven't met a person in real life to whom it actually happened while knowing a few skiing with Freerides and no problems. Also, with Freerides you are lifted higher off the ski - there are pros and cons to that too and it may not be every person's cup of tea, but so far so good (I mounted them end of March and skied maybe 16 days with them) and to be honest if I notice the difference it's a positive one due to absence of ramp in the bindings (I am not sure but think that all AT bindings will have zero ramp). I liked it so much that am actually in the process of remounting all my skis and putting inserts under toe pieces to eliminate the ramp. Or you can get new Salomon Guardians, they are new for next season, and by description sound really cool bindings that will work well both for resort and touring. They have the convenience of Fritschis - you don't need to get off the ski to switch modes, but you will be sitting closer to the ski surface. Any of those will be quite a heavy set-up but a versatile one, and IMHO will make more sense than using tech bindings on essentially non-touring skis and having to swap them all the time.
One more thing that you need to pay attention to is the maximum shovels width that the sky carry system of your backpack will allow. You don't want to arrive to the bottom of bootpack only to find out that your skis won't fit. Skins you should be able to get in a ski shop, they take your ski model and all dimensions and order skins to be cut for you from Colltex.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
never summer, Welcome to Snowheads 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
spyderjon, I toured on Preachers for two seasons. No problem really, although I wouldn't much fancy a technical traverse, I suppose.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
