 Poster: A snowHead
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
Welcome both georgina@schussaway.co.uk and Maria55.
I hate to be suspicious, but two endorsements from new posters in a day... |
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and for a product that was spammed on here via the private message facility.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well Sorry I am sure it wasn't me who did that I can assure you
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well I have no allegiances to or interest in the SKIA Sweetspot trainer and I can definitely say that it has made me more aware of the correct place to be balanced in my boots and on my skis.
I can now clearly feel where I need to be balanced as a 'home' position on my skis and the spot that gets the most out of the shape of my skis (Salomon 24 Hours 170's)
I do a lot of BOSU work and I cannot see how standing on a BOSU in ski boots will help you find the correct spot to balance on, unless you know where this is already and can adjust to place the correct pivot balance point on the exact balance point of the BOSU.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Boredsurfing, On the other hand we shouldn't slam postings for a product as spam for just being discussed - it happens and it's no worse than discussing dot skis, toko edge tuners or the latest ski boot to hit the market. Yes, we get into the realms of what is helpful and what is pure blatant marketting and we do know that some of us have trial ones to test - I hold up my hand - I've got one of them. However, a forum is a two edged sword - so far my trial version seems OK, but I would have held back no punches had I thought otherwise and the marketing would have backfired stupendously and that's the risk that anyone takes. On SH's we've seen how anything from tour operators to delivery companies can easily get 'bad press' so it does happen.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 26-03-12 18:44; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks Megamum, I think you are standing up for me and my decision to say I like the product.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've brought my evaluation set home today that was delivered to my office last week whilst I was away skiing, practicing the very same thing that the Sweetspot Trainer endorses. The same thing that Hugh Monney installed in me 6 years ago. I've had it out of the box, but haven't tried it yet.
Mine was offered by PM on snowHeads by way of having a 20,000+ post count. Once I did some research into the device and saw that Hugh was behind the idea, I jumped at the chance of having one.
I will post further once I've had a go with it.
Maria55 & georgina@schussaway.co.uk, Welcome to snowHeads 
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Our SkiA Sweetspot Facebook page posted a link about the naked ironing - which was a really funny comment as well as a mental image that has left us forever scarred. It suggested 'why not post if you have experience of using the trainers?' Georgina and Maria may well have picked up the link from there - hence the suspicious looking posts from new members. Apart from having used the trainers and presumably following our Facebook page, there's absolutely no association with us. They're genuine users and their views are entirely their own. I hope that Snowheads will reach out and say a friendly Hi to them
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you for posting that - glad to welcome the girls on board and sweetspot_skia, welcome to SH's as well. If you have any time to help with postings on other subjects then I'm sure we'd be happy to hear from you.
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First of all Maria55, apologies for being suspicious, but it's not uncommon for us to have new posters turning up as "satisfied customers". The thread normally starts "Has anyone tried product X" - only for one or more new posters to turn up endorsing the very same product.
The SkiA product, in particular, seems to have got several people's backs up (including my own) through the perception that it's already been spammed on more than one occasion.
I actually think it's a good product at a good price - which is why I bought one. But my own perception is that the social media / viral marketing approach to the product has been handled a little ham-fistedly.
So. Welcome.
Honestly, we're not an unfriendly bunch. Just tired of spamming. And very wary of it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, good point
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You know it makes sense.
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I’d like to respond to the issue of spamming which has been raised
In February I posted two comments on the ‘Heel raise’ thread as my alter ego ‘Mr Brain Cheat’. I had returned the day before from a trip to Chamonix, where I had been using the trainer every day. It was wrong of me to post without making my association clear
When my involvement was questioned, I immediately PM’d some members on the thread: “The comments were true - in that was absolutely my experience of using them last week - but clearly there is a conflict of interest and I can see that was misleading. I simply should not have posted at all... I've removed my last post (except for the last words). I hope you'll forgive my stupid mistake.”
This was the result of over-enthusiasm rather than malicious intent. Clearly I would never again post about the trainer without making my association crystal clear.
In terms of sending private messages, I sent a PM to a total of 15 senior Snowheads (with over 20,000 posts) in mid March, to ask if they would like a sample of the trainer in order that they could test it and form their own opinion. With a brand new type of product, there is a vacuum of opinion. Endorsements may be viewed with suspicion – ‘it looks good, but is it just marketing hype?”. Individuals who are trusted may have no experience of it. On the other hand, as we’ve seen, newcomers to the forum who have actually tried it aren’t trusted. Our view was that senior Snowheads could take care of themselves and, as Megamum put it, ‘wouldn’t hold back’ from slating it if they thought it wasn’t good.
So ‘ham-fisted’ marketing? Well perhaps, and if so then I take responsibility for that. It’s certainly never been the intention to cause upset. We have to learn as we go along, and particularly learn from our mistakes. Prior to the invention of the trainer, I’ve had no background in business, marketing, manufacturing, distribution, website design or any of the other dozen or so related aspects of the project. It’s less than a year since we decided to manufacture, and have since moved Heaven and Earth to get the trainer launched in time for the winter season. However, if there is one mistake I regret from this period, it was this posting in February - for which I apologise.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sweetspot_skia,
You seem like a genuine person. It would be a mean person not to accept the apology you made. I wish you luck with your trainer.
Unfortunately I leave my boots in Austria so I can't use the trainer. However any time you need a more junior member (posts - not age!!) to review your product ..............
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Poster: A snowHead
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sweetspot_skia, what about skilover33 jumping in to many threads with a none too subtle invitation to ask more as referenced by flyingstantoni above?
I don't doubt your product may be good but it's certainly appears overpriced IMO for what it physically is which will put me off ever trying it unfortunately. (& yes I understand economies of scale, small batch manufacture, R&D cost etc etc).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sweetspot_skia, N.B. I was only having a bit of giggle with the PK comment above I didn't mean to honestly imply that you and he are linked in any way!
It's a dodgy old world here on SH's. Spam gets a rough ride, but as I pointed out on the other thread lots of other products are regularly discussed by their owners and frequently praised - not to mention services, skis different boots etc. I struggle to see why the issue relating to those products is any different to yours. This thead was not started by you so cannot be seen as self-promotion and you have now logged as yourself with your affiliation clear to see to defend your motives and - noticable to me - not to try and 'push' your product per se.
I was one of those that received your PM, I was a little surprised, but you did it privately and it must have taken some time to send a personal message to each of us on the 20K plus mark, regardless of knowing what standard of skier any of us was. Your message was polite and I could see your intent and I wasn't offended by it - indeed I took you up on the offer. You bravely offered a trial of your product no doubt knowing that we would post back for all to see if we thought it good, bad or indifferent - that's quite a brave leap of faith IMO.
FWIW I don't think you have done anything wrong and I like the product. It was the thread newbies who chucked the spanner in the works (possibly quite innocently) and the resident consiparacy theorists who compounded it. Like I say its a dodgy old world here on SH's, but stick with it - from the comments already posted it is clear that many like the product and you are probably only approaching the marketing in a way that I would do myself from a standing start with no experience. Your actions very much mimic my own for my own fledgling business (not the one in my sig. btw - that's for my brother!)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sweetspot_skia, anyhow seeing as you are obviously around. Is it the intent of the trainer that, as well as using at home, it is worth taking it on holiday with me in a couple of weeks and using it for a few minutes balancing each day prior to skiing please?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks Megamum for your kind comments. As for taking it on your ski trip - a definite yes to that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sweetspot_skia, have you thought about runnning a competition on here with a pair as the prize? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fat bob wrote: |
| ...but it's certainly appears overpriced IMO for what it physically is which will put me off ever trying it unfortunately. |
To be fair, fatbob it's surprisingly well made and less than the cost of a one hour private lesson. And will probably do more for most people than the one hour private.
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fatbob, I should explain - skilover33 manages our Twitter and Facebook pages. I understand that she did check with Snowheads admin first, and was aiming to act within the guidance that she'd been given - for example, asking people to PM her if they were interested. I hadn't looked for the posts until today, and having read through I can understand why (despite being well intentioned) they caused irritation. The posts did stop some time ago - so in that respect have already learnt that lesson - but I apologise for any annoyance caused to the community
In terms of competition prizes - it's a bit of a sensitive topic at the moment isn't it?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sweetspot_skia, welcome back as the real you, since your other post which caused you concern I delved a bit more into your trainer "as mentioned a self confessed tech head" I haven't taken the plunge yet but I did download the free ebook of hugh's, suffering from insomnia during my trip last week I started to read it, needless to say I spent the rest of my week focused on subtly squashing snowballs through the center of my feet, focusing on the flat moments more etc. I have to say I did feel a difference in my ability to stay better balanced, I can really see this device helping to feel what I was practising.
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Plunge taken, ordered yesterday lunchtime-arrived this morning... £3 delivery wow!
I'm thinking they should have just sent it with a bunch of spare green blocks though! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I am interested in the comment above which implies that SH Admin was contacted by sweetspot_skia, that makes all the recent activity even more acceptable than it already was IMV. |
I think this is irrelevant as skilover33 didn't use skill and judgement in her interventions - she just seemed to steam into any vaguely relevant thread like the late proprietor of a certain business in La Rosiere. Just because someone's handed out some freebies doesn't give them carte blanche. That said the apology seems sincere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've been reading the book and all about the importance of the sweet spot and where it is - the centre point of your boot which I guess is expected to be over the centre point of the skis. Now on my skis I expect I do ski with the boot more or less over the centre point as I ski a set of rail mounted skis where the binding adjustments are pretty much pre-determined. However, it did make me think about all those threads I've read regarding binding positions, in particular those where it often states that women's ski mounted bindings are sometimes set a little further forward than a mans. Does that have any effect on the 'sweet spot' position? Is the 'sweet spot' going to be in the centre of the skis and if so what happens if your bindings are not centre mounted?
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There's a chord centre and a balance point (where the ski balances on a pivot) but having your boot centre at these generally means for most alpine skiers you are too far forward unless you're a park monkey. Centre mounted skis definitely ski differently. So in general best to trust the designer who marks where they think boot centre should go unless you're adept at fine adjustments and can functionally feel the difference.
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| There's a chord centre and a balance point (where the ski balances on a pivot) but having your boot centre at these generally means for most alpine skiers you are too far forward unless you're a park monkey. Centre mounted skis definitely ski differently. So in general best to trust the designer who marks where they think boot centre should go unless you're adept at fine adjustments and can functionally feel the difference. |
There's quite a few people who would tell you that very little thought is given as to where to draw the mounting point by some designers, and that the balance point with the skiier on the ski is the way to go.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, Mosha Marc, so does any of that affect what the trainer is trying to do for you - which appears to be to make you balance right over the centre point of the boot (which is where the balance block aligns). If the position of the binding can vary on the ski surely being over the centre of the boot is no guarantee of being slap bang over the best point on the ski? I would have thought you were aiming for a balance point on your ski rather than on the boot (though I can see that any balance training must be helpful)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mosha Marc, Agree - and I've definitely had some skis where I didn't feel the std mount worked particularly well for me. But for the average punter it's got to be a better measure than trying to second guess unless they're going to weenie out on a full Andi McCann/ Harald Harb type analysis. The advantage with hostage rail systems is that you can mess around a bit with for and aft movement say +/- 10mm and see if another position works better for you.
Now I always ask someone who knows what they advise on mounting relative to the line and right very explicit instructions for the tech on each ski myself, which has worked fine recently.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Still haven't had mine out of the box, made up my mind not to put my boots on again till May. Couldn't face the thought of the fridge after my Italy trip before I go to Thailand. I'm sure by May I'll be desperate enough to return.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
flirting a bit with the reds
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Ditto!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Anyone "up north" got one of these? I'm interested in trying it out on my two kids who have typical kid leaning back styles!
Cheers,
Greg
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kitenski, got 3 sets at Ski Rossi. We are using them this weekend on a course. Drop me a pm and i am sure you can 'borrow' a set for a few weeks 
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kitenski, I was once told by an instructor that the kids leaning back style is in response to their natural lighter weight and enables them to go faster on their skis - I was told it normally self cures, but possibly not until 14-15 years old - esp. for very lightly built kids. If it's any help by eldest (12) is starting to move forwards, but still isn't quite there, but my 9 year old can still get quite into the back seat when he wants to nip along. I doubt the trainer is for children (in fact I think it says as much in the book) and this natural backwards stance could well be the reason why.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, thanks, I am slowly coming to the same conclusion, having spent a week trying to get both mine to not lean back! One is age 9, one 12....
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Yes kids have less muscle to mass in the legs so use their skeleton to support them... as they get older their muscles in their legs allow them to remain more central on the skis and therefore lean less far back. They are also relatively top heavy with a proportionally larger head than with adults so need to counteract and have their head and body further back.
| Quote: |
| enables them to go faster on their skis |
pretty much everyone goes faster leaning back (at least temporarily) but the control is much less.
Also kids bracing themselves and seemingly being in the back seat would result in massive amounts of lactic acid for adults but kids don't really get lactic acid until they are about 9/10 years old typically therefore can 'get away with it'.
DON'T worry about trying to correct kids being in the back seat - it very often does sort itself out and the better course of action is to give them tasks that force them through trial and error to find the middle of the skis e.g. moguls or going off jumps.... they will soon work out how to find the middle of the ski in order the fulfil the task e.g. remaining upright after landing a jump etc!
BTW Megamum I think some of what the instructor told you (although potentially correct) may have been lost in translation or interpretation as a naturally 'lighter' weight was probably a reflection on the fact they are younger and less muscle mass as opposed to overall weighing less.
Personally speaking I don't see any harm in getting the kids to have a go with the Trainer but I can't imagine they'd be that invigorated using it for a particularly long period of time that it would result in a positive change!
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FAQ
However, she could always edit her posting accordingly 
. Anyhow, welcome to the pair of you and I hope we see you both get stuck into discussions.
