 Poster: A snowHead
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andy from embsay, gaaaahh I didn't write that!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| James the Last wrote: |
There is no doubt that there are certain circumstances under which the wearing of a helmet will improve the outcome for the wearer.
There is similarly no doubt that under certain circumstances a helmet will make no difference. You'll be dead/OK anyway.
And there is similarly no doubt that under certain circumstances a helmet will make things worse.
The problem is, until you've had your accident, you don't know which category you will fall into. |
Given this, you shouldn't (logically) have posted that helmets are a complete waste of time when cycling. Complete means that in no circumstances would they be of any benefit, when you freely admit that this is not the case!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[quote="andy from embsay"]
| The Flying Snowplough wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Cycle helmets are a complete waste of time too. |
That's utter b*llocks, I'd have to say. I had a bike crash a few weeks ago. I went over sideways at ~25/30mph on black ice and landed on my hip, arm and head. The impact on the helmet was so hard that I "saw stars" briefly, the outer of the helmet was badly scratched and dented and the polystyrene - or whatever is in helmets - actually broke.
Make of that what you will, but it's hard to believe that the same crash without a helmet would have left me without even a headache. (Not being able to walk with the damaged hip was my main concern.)
Badly fitted cycling helmets worn by people who have no idea how to ride a bike are a different matter.
I wear a helmet to ski. I prefer it now to the old days, as it's much easier to keep my head warm, ears protected from the sun and the goggles hung somewhere safe when not in use! |
http://cyclehelmets.org/1209.html
The other fascinating thing about helmet debates is that nearly everyone who advocates their use either knows someone who has had, or has personally had, an accident that without the helmet would have been far more serious. Those who are less pro-helmet (or are agnostic) rarely have such experiences. I've been skiing for 25 years and cycling seriously for 10. I don't know anyone who's had, nor have I had, any sort of accident where there's been a head injury or a damaged helmet.
Now I'm not sure whether that says helmet wearers are more likely to have accidents, or whether accidents generate pro-helmet sentiments, but the difference is really quite stark.
Oh - and 25-30mph on black ice? Suggest you slow down a bit old lad! In those sort of conditions I've usually got one foot unclipped and am doing about 8mph! |
Please edit this, I did not write that!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| The Flying Snowplough wrote: |
| Are you the same AndyFromEmbsay who's involved with the White Rose Challenge? I'm signed up for this and looking forward to not falling off in it. |
Yep, although I'm riding myself rather than organising (my club is though). Chances of falling off are much reduced with changing the route to avoid coming down the Malham cove road - that used to be good for at least a couple of wipe-outs per year. More likely to fall off grinding to a halt trying to ride up Langbar with 100 miles in your legs...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| More likely to fall off grinding to a halt trying to ride up Langbar with 100 miles in your legs... |
You've obviously heard of me and my (lack of) abilities. 
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| The Flying Snowplough wrote: |
| andy from embsay wrote: |
| More likely to fall off grinding to a halt trying to ride up Langbar with 100 miles in your legs... |
You've obviously heard of me and my (lack of) abilities. |
Having got off and walked up there in 2008, and living pretty close I put in quite a lot of specific Langbar training for the 2009 WRC. I can exclusively reveal that from the grit bin at the start of the steep bit to the signpost at the top is exactly 100 pedal strokes with 34-27 gearing, and takes one minute and fifty five seconds to ride up.
So you just have to tell yourself "100 pedal strokes and two minutes of pain". Easy peasy!
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Road Cycling - very little evidence of benefit from helmets
Mountain-biking - no really proper research
Skiing - research shows severity of injury reduced, but not fatalities, and shows no signs of "adaptive" risk behaviour.
It is all there if people want to look... rather than get upset when they are called for spouting BS... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| The Flying Snowplough wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
There is no doubt that there are certain circumstances under which the wearing of a helmet will improve the outcome for the wearer.
There is similarly no doubt that under certain circumstances a helmet will make no difference. You'll be dead/OK anyway.
And there is similarly no doubt that under certain circumstances a helmet will make things worse.
The problem is, until you've had your accident, you don't know which category you will fall into. |
Given this, you shouldn't (logically) have posted that helmets are a complete waste of time when cycling. Complete means that in no circumstances would they be of any benefit, when you freely admit that this is not the case! |
If I were to agree with your definition of complete, then I would agree with you. However, if the net result is that they make no difference then they are a complete waste of time, albeit that under certain circumstances they may be beneficial. You don't know, before having an accident, what sort of an accident you're going to have.
For instance. I can think of one individual who was doing 30mph on black ice on a bike wearing a helmet. One cannot draw wide conclusions from a single example, but it suggests that wearing a helmet isn't the only thing one can do to promote safety...
Axsman, I believe I have posted fairly considered thoughts, though I fully accept the pro-helmet brigade know better than I do and will bring up lots of isolated examples which allegedly prove their point. It's where I've been quoted allegedly saying things that are the complete reverse of what I wrote that I object to. I did not say that going off piste without equipment was sensible; quite the reverse.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
Road Cycling - very little evidence of benefit from helmets
Mountain-biking - no really proper research
Skiing - research shows severity of injury reduced, but not fatalities, and shows no signs of "adaptive" risk behaviour.
It is all there if people want to look... rather than get upset when they are called for spouting BS... |
Specifically for mountain biking, you're more likely to have a low(er) speed crashes (especially if you're riding anything technical) than either skiing or road riding so, one would assume, helmets might be more beneficial since apparently they are more effective at preventing injury at low speeds.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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James the Last, I wasn't aware there was more than one definition of complete.
Out of interest, in what situations are you claiming that helmets for road cyclists make things worse?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| James the Last wrote: |
Axsman, I believe I have posted fairly considered thoughts, though I fully accept the pro-helmet brigade know better than I do and will bring up lots of isolated examples which allegedly prove their point. It's where I've been quoted allegedly saying things that are the complete reverse of what I wrote that I object to. I did not say that going off piste without equipment was sensible; quite the reverse. |
Actually sorry, turns out I owe you an apology. The first time I read this post:
| James the Last wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| James the Last, do you check for traffic when crossing the road, or just stride across blindly? |
The point I was making is that it's dangerous whichever way you do it.
In St Anton at the start of January (danger level 4/5 for the slopes they managed to open), where I was staying there was a group of 14 boarders who had an "awesome" time off piste in waist deep or more powder. Did they have avo gear? No. Had they even heard of it? No. Had they done any training? No. Had they been doing this for years, several weeks a year? Yes.
Were they the only similarly-equipped people on the mountain? Obviously...
Did I join them? No. |
I didn't notice your last line, until looking for it now, and so had read it as advocating it was fine to do that.
Axsman does have a point about your posting style though.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| Motorcycle helmets are fantastic. If any of the nutters who whinge about helmets were serious about protecting their heads, they would wear a motorcycle helmet when skiing/when on a bicycle. |
Missed that one - helmet threads are not limited to skiing, a quick search will reveal that the safety of motorcycle helmets is debated using exactly the same arguments you see here. Makes riders feel invincible, reduces awareness, only work up to 12mph, don't really stop injury, cause different more serious injuries... and on and on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
Road Cycling - very little evidence of benefit from helmets
Mountain-biking - no really proper research
Skiing - research shows severity of injury reduced, but not fatalities, and shows no signs of "adaptive" risk behaviour.
It is all there if people want to look... rather than get upset when they are called for spouting BS... |
Hang on a minute, the skiing one sounds like rubbish to my (mostly) logical mind.
There is obviously a point where a head injury 'becomes' fatal, if severity of injury is reduced by wearing a helmet then that protection could put people who have fatal head injuries close to that point, back over in to the non-fatal section.
There are going to be situations where a helmet will not save your life, but if it reduces severity of head injuries then there are instances where it will (you've said yourself that helmets reduce severity and whether a head injury is fatal has a lot to do with the severity of it surely).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| James the Last wrote: |
| You don't know, before having an accident, what sort of an accident you're going to have. |
Is it the type of accident or how the helmet is worn that is the crucial factor? It's hard to think of a type of bike accident where a properly fitted helmet will make things worse.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Flying Snowplough, it's possible that in a high speed, high-g with long G exposure, the extra weight of the helmet could theoretically cause a neck injury which wouldn't have otherwise occured. Of course, your other internal organs will be soup in such an scenario, but yes the neck injury could occur.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TotallyBoard, I've always just taken it that if I'm having a crash serious enough to be fatal I'm probably going to die regardless of helmet or not. May not be 100% accurate, but probably close enough as makes little difference and safer...
But if I'm likely to have an accident that will require stitches, give me a bit of concussion etc. (far more likely) then a helmet is surely preferable. This is relating to skiing and MTB specifically as that's my main experience.
I also think the small number of scenarios where a helmet could theoretically make things worse are a) fairly unlikely to happen since I'm not a pro or particularly extreme skier and b) vastly less likely to happen than the myriad other, smaller incidents that are far more probable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
TotallyBoard, I've always just taken it that if I'm having a crash serious enough to be fatal I'm probably going to die regardless of helmet or not. May not be 100% accurate, but probably close enough as makes little difference and safer...
But if I'm likely to have an accident that will require stitches, give me a bit of concussion etc. (far more likely) then a helmet is surely preferable. This is relating to skiing and MTB specifically as that's my main experience.
I also think the small number of scenarios where a helmet could theoretically make things worse are a) fairly unlikely to happen since I'm not a pro or particularly extreme skier and b) vastly less likely to happen than the myriad other, smaller incidents that are far more probable. |
But surely there is a point where the injuries 'become' fatal. If your fatal injury is head trauma and a helmet can reduce the severity of said trauma then there are cases where it can save your life.
There's a fierce helmet related thread on goneboarding going on now too and I just posted this little story: -
I've got about 20 weeks under my belt (plus dome time) and wouldn't consider riding without a lid. Main reason I started wearing one was because my kids had to.
Christmas before last I woke up on my own on a poxy little green run, had no memory (didn't even know my name, literally completely wiped my system), it took 4 hours for my memory to come back completely. No idea of what happened but guessing I caught my heel edge somehow and it flicked me over on to my head. Thankfully had a helmet on, which on inspection was found to have a 6" crack in it and was split open like an egg. I truly believe that had I not been wearing my helmet (was on my way out the door with a beanie and changed my mind  ) it would have been game over.
At the end of the day I don't give a monkey's if anyone else wears one, but me and my family don't go on the mountain without them!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TotallyBoard, you are right about your logic. And I agree. But we are talking about proof...
The issue is that fatalities due to head injuries skiing are very very rare. It is unlikely that a study can ever be organised on a prospective controlled basis with two matched populations which is statistically powerful enough to prove helmets save lives.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
But surely there is a point where the injuries 'become' fatal. If your fatal injury is head trauma and a helmet can reduce the severity of said trauma then there are cases where it can save your life.
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Yeah, I'm sure there is. But it's got to be very difficult to define the line where that happens, and it's surely much safer to assume that a fatal accident is probably going to be a fatal accident regardless.
One would also assume that an accident that happens to be just on the line of being fatal without a helmet is still going to result in very severe injuries with one, so I would argue that it shouldn't really make a difference to how fast you ski or ride.
For the record, I haven't had any crashes that I think might have been fatal sans helmet, but I have had a few on the bike where the helmet has certainly protected me from cuts and bruises. Managed to put a really big crack in the back of my old open face when my front wheel washed out in a gulley and I slid into a rock, which wouldn't have been fun without it.
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In France it's compulsory to wear a helmet if you are taking a professional lesson. This accounts for almost 100% of kids and a lot of adults. My gripe with helmets is that they reduce your hearing and more dangerously the hearing of kids who are then happy in their own little world not taking any notice of anything else much. My son went up the wrong chair lift when he was 6, all on his own - the Instructor was also at fault but he just said he didn't hear her....
Boarders are a real danger to skiers because 50% of the time they are facing away from you, and it's worse if they can't hear you either cos they have a helmet on....
I support the right of us all to make our own decisions!
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snowyowl, on my helmet (Salomon Brigade) you can take the ear pads out which neatly circumvents that problem. I normally use it to cool down on warm days though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Skiing - research shows severity of injury reduced, but not fatalities, and shows no signs of "adaptive" risk behaviour.
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I have read severalof the recent papers and I am not certain that they even demonstrate this. What they have measured is transfer rate from the slopes to the hospital without stating any of the basis on why the injury has been transferred. I have seen no studies that actually measure any meaningful neurological outcome.
They use a proxy which may or may not be meaningful.
And there are only a couple of studies on adaptive behaviour which measure injury rate difference between skiers wearing and not wearing helmets but as we do not konow the injury rate of the same skiers without wearing helmets we cannot be sure.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
TotallyBoard, you are right about your logic. And I agree. But we are talking about proof...
The issue is that fatalities due to head injuries skiing are very very rare. It is unlikely that a study can ever be organised on a prospective controlled basis with two matched populations which is statistically powerful enough to prove helmets save lives. |
Logic is a proof, statistics are just another type.
Natasha Richardson is a pretty high profile death from head injury, no helmet on a nursery slope and an innocuous fall by all accounts. Would a helmet have saved her? Who knows. Given the opportunity of reliving that moment with a helmet on would she choose to? I'm guessing she'd give it a try.
Would I risking having the same fall that I had 15 months ago and not wear a helmet? I'm pretty sure (even with the bump on the head) the answer to that would be a resounding no.
I also got taken out by a novice boarder as I was going up the rope tow in Tam (she came off the box badly out of control), she stacked in to me badly and as we went over the (sharp) edge of her board hit right across my temple\ear area (thankfully all protected by my lid).
This Christmas got taken out by an out of control skier, going much faster than her ability would allow whilst I was stopped (stood to the side of the piste and in clear view before anyone starts ) and banged my head on her, her skis and the ground.
Neither of those 2 likely to be fatal but my helmet proved quite useful in both those instances and moreso the one recounted earlier.
It's a matter of personal choice, I'm not trying to evangalise for helmets, I don't give a toss if people wear them or not. What winds me up is when people say they're useless because I've had 3 instances in the last 15 months where they've been very useful indeed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowyowl,
| Quote: |
In France it's compulsory to wear a helmet if you are taking a professional lesson
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You sure? I don't remember seeing everyone either receiving or giving a lesson they certainly didn't two years ago when I last had one there although the situation may have changed I don't really remember noticing it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| Yeah, I'm sure there is. But it's got to be very difficult to define the line where that happens, and it's surely much safer to assume that a fatal accident is probably going to be a fatal accident regardless. |
That makes no sense at all, defining where the line is doesn't matter. If you agree that there is such a line (obviously there is) and a helmet could ameliorate the danger and put you the right side of the line, then the safest option is just to wear one no?
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| snowyowl wrote: |
In France it's compulsory to wear a helmet if you are taking a professional lesson. This accounts for almost 100% of kids and a lot of adults. My gripe with helmets is that they reduce your hearing and more dangerously the hearing of kids who are then happy in their own little world not taking any notice of anything else much. My son went up the wrong chair lift when he was 6, all on his own - the Instructor was also at fault but he just said he didn't hear her....
Boarders are a real danger to skiers because 50% of the time they are facing away from you, and it's worse if they can't hear you either cos they have a helmet on....
I support the right of us all to make our own decisions! |
Just out of interest why are 'boarders a real danger to skiers'? If everyone is riding\skiing with regard the FIS rules then no-one should be a danger to anyone. Boarders who don't ride to the rules are dangerous to boarders and skiers alike (in the same way that skiers who don't ski to the rules are!)
Why would I need to hear you? You should be giving me enough room to make my turns as I wish if you are the uphill skier and only overtaking when it's safe to do so.
You are half way there, you realise that a boarder can't see you when you go past on their heel side. You just need to make the leap of logic that you need to leave a nice wide gap on a boarder's heel side, or go past on their toe side.
People do stupid things on boards\skis, you should cater for that and make sure that YOU aren't adding to the danger.
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You know it makes sense.
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| Yeah, I'm sure there is. But it's got to be very difficult to define the line where that happens, and it's surely much safer to assume that a fatal accident is probably going to be a fatal accident regardless. |
That makes no sense at all, defining where the line is doesn't matter. If you agree that there is such a line (obviously there is) and a helmet could ameliorate the danger and put you the right side of the line, then the safest option is just to wear one no? |
Why are people on here so bloody insistent on picking holes? If you actually read the rest of my post I did qualify what I said.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| TotallyBoard wrote: |
| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| Yeah, I'm sure there is. But it's got to be very difficult to define the line where that happens, and it's surely much safer to assume that a fatal accident is probably going to be a fatal accident regardless. |
That makes no sense at all, defining where the line is doesn't matter. If you agree that there is such a line (obviously there is) and a helmet could ameliorate the danger and put you the right side of the line, then the safest option is just to wear one no? |
Why are people on here so bloody insistent on picking holes? If you actually read the rest of my post I did qualify what I said. |
Didn't mean to cause offense, just don't understand how you can say that the safer option is to accept that a fatal accident is a fatal accident in the same post as agreeing that helmets *could* turn a fatal accident in to a non-fatal accident. I just think the pros of wearing a helmet far outweigh the cons and have good reasons for this based on personal experience.
People can wear one or not, I don't care, but when people claim they're a complete waste of time and useless I think it's just ridiculous. Best case scenario in the last 15 months would have been 2 trips to A&E, one in France which would have cost money and had the hassle of an insurance claim. Worst case doesn't bear thinking about.
As an analogy, I'm very careful about how I treat my phone, I don't put it in my pocket with keys or change but I still put a screen protector on it just in case. If I didn't, best case scenario my phone doesn't get scratched, worst case I could get another phone
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Poster: A snowHead
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I learned to ski donkeys years ago before helmets were on the scene. Over the years I've noticed more collisions on the slopes and in my opinion the majority are caused by out of control helmet wearing snowboarders No doubt that will get the boarders up in arms but it is my honest observation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| muddewater wrote: |
| I learned to ski donkeys years ago before helmets were on the scene. Over the years I've noticed more collisions on the slopes and in my opinion the majority are caused by out of control helmet wearing snowboarders No doubt that will get the boarders up in arms but it is my honest observation. |
Yeah and I'm sure these out of control snowboaders then sat in the middle of the piste, calling each other dude and smoking dope after causing all these collisions.
What a load of old tosh. Rather than an opinion based on observations (you may be suffering from confirmation bias) how about my family's experiences over the last 12 months? My 6yo daughter getting taken out by an out of control skier in VT, me getting hit from behind whilst stopped at the edge of the piste and in full view by another skier. Or how about when I dropped in to a jump in the park (calling my drop obviously), to see a skier enter the park (past the safety signs) and pull alongside me on the drop to the same jump! None of these skiers were wearing helmets.
I could spout off about how dangerous skiers are (based on factual experiences, rather than observations), but I wouldn'dream of it because I know there are idiots that do both of our sports. It's the fact that they are idiots that is the problem, not the type of snowsport they do!
There are some fantastic sportsmen and women that do both sports and some great people who do them recreationally. Prejudiced comments just serve to divide people who love being in the mountains. I guess there's some skiers that just don't like us, I ride with respect, safely and in control and I still get some sorts looking down at me when I'm carrying my board (that's if they ever manage to catch up).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
Would I risking having the same fall that I had 15 months ago and not wear a helmet? I'm pretty sure (even with the bump on the head) the answer to that would be a resounding no.
I also got taken out by a novice boarder as I was going up the rope tow in Tam (she came off the box badly out of control), she stacked in to me badly and as we went over the (sharp) edge of her board hit right across my temple\ear area (thankfully all protected by my lid).
This Christmas got taken out by an out of control skier, going much faster than her ability would allow whilst I was stopped (stood to the side of the piste and in clear view before anyone starts ) and banged my head on her, her skis and the ground. |
Makes it an expensive sport, doesn't it, when you've spent, what £300? £600? on new helmets in a 15 month period.
| bobmcstuff wrote: |
James the Last, I wasn't aware there was more than one definition of complete.
Out of interest, in what situations are you claiming that helmets for road cyclists make things worse? |
It's about the context, not the definition. If you went to the Cup Final and put £10 on Cardiff to win at 1.95:1, and £10 on Liverpool to win at 1.95:1 then it would have been a complete waste of time, despite the fact that you had had a £19.50 return on a £10 bet. I hope you can agree.
Out of interest, read some of the research. http://cyclehelmets.org/
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Actually turns out... |
Glad we agree we agree.
I believe that the place where wearing helmets would give the biggest improvement in survival rates from head injuries is when travelling inside a motorcar involved in an accident - which is the most common cause of head injury. So, if helmet wearing is a science-based activity, then getting car passengers to wear motorcycle helmets is the thing to legislate for.
And I shall vent my final frustration on the habit of hiring skiing helmets. What are the odds of hiring a pre-broken helmet?
Wear a helmet if you want to; I will defend your right so to do so. I stopped wearing a cycle helmet because it was making me a riskier cyclist.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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James the Last, that site has a pretty clear anti-helmet bias... It delivers an attempt at appearing un-biased, but when you look at the commentary on the papers for and against they pick into the papers for much more harshly when in fact there are probably just as many problems with both...
We should find a pro-helmet site to compare it with and hope the bias balances out... Then we might end up somewhere around the middle.
In my opinion, I wouldn't agree that wearing a helmet makes you a riskier cyclist if you've never ridden without one. It may make you a riskier rider if you suddenly put one on and it makes you feel invincible. But that's a behavioural problem and doesn't negate the fact that helmets can prevent or reduce injury. If you put on a helmet and decide to cycle like a lunatic afterwards, that's your own lookout.
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I think cyclehelmets is a reasonably balanced site - it does rather go to town on the "my helmet saved my life" thing, but as this tends to be the biggest reason given FOR wearing a bike helmet a site attempting to give both sides of the argument would tend to focus quite a lot on one of the biggest areas of misunderstanding - that brain injury is caused when the brain deccelerates when it smacks into your skull, not because your head "cracks open". A helmet has to mitigate that decceleration, which limits the benefit that a useable helmet can have - which is where the point that cycle helmets won't make any difference to the severity of brain injury at impacts over 12mph. I don't know what the equivalent for skiing helmets is, but I guess it's not that much higher.
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I believe that the place where wearing helmets would give the biggest improvement in survival rates from head injuries is when travelling inside a motorcar involved in an accident - which is the most common cause of head injury. So, if helmet wearing is a science-based activity, then getting car passengers to wear motorcycle helmets is the thing to legislate for.
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So true.
If cars had their windows removed then apart from needing to wear goggles and coats, people would regularly wear helmets too. Instead, that 6mm of glass creates the illusion of safety.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| TotallyBoard wrote: |
Would I risking having the same fall that I had 15 months ago and not wear a helmet? I'm pretty sure (even with the bump on the head) the answer to that would be a resounding no.
I also got taken out by a novice boarder as I was going up the rope tow in Tam (she came off the box badly out of control), she stacked in to me badly and as we went over the (sharp) edge of her board hit right across my temple\ear area (thankfully all protected by my lid).
This Christmas got taken out by an out of control skier, going much faster than her ability would allow whilst I was stopped (stood to the side of the piste and in clear view before anyone starts ) and banged my head on her, her skis and the ground. |
Makes it an expensive sport, doesn't it, when you've spent, what £300? £600? on new helmets in a 15 month period.
| bobmcstuff wrote: |
James the Last, I wasn't aware there was more than one definition of complete.
Out of interest, in what situations are you claiming that helmets for road cyclists make things worse? |
It's about the context, not the definition. If you went to the Cup Final and put £10 on Cardiff to win at 1.95:1, and £10 on Liverpool to win at 1.95:1 then it would have been a complete waste of time, despite the fact that you had had a £19.50 return on a £10 bet. I hope you can agree.
Out of interest, read some of the research. http://cyclehelmets.org/
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Actually turns out... |
Glad we agree we agree.
I believe that the place where wearing helmets would give the biggest improvement in survival rates from head injuries is when travelling inside a motorcar involved in an accident - which is the most common cause of head injury. So, if helmet wearing is a science-based activity, then getting car passengers to wear motorcycle helmets is the thing to legislate for.
And I shall vent my final frustration on the habit of hiring skiing helmets. What are the odds of hiring a pre-broken helmet?
Wear a helmet if you want to; I will defend your right so to do so. I stopped wearing a cycle helmet because it was making me a riskier cyclist. |
lol your argument seems to go along the lines that when I started wearing a helmet I automatically took more risks because I thought I could break through trees with my newly aquired invincibilty. That didn't happen for one simple reason, I'm not an idiot.
If you had to remove your cycle helmet in order to slow yourself down on a bike that points to a problem with you, not helmets per se (I find brakes do the job much better).
I don't know where you price your helmets but I don't spend more than £40 a pop, I've only replaced it twice so £300 - £600 seems a tad excessive.
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I learned to ski donkeys years ago
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Better than riding them on Blackpool beach
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FAQ
, but can you not see the overbearing arrogance in the way you chose to express them? Or have I misquoted you? 
