Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

since when did a sofa bed become ok for holiday accomidation

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
Spam knows no time limits, apparently.


Search for Bonglats username and you'll see he's been softening snowheads up with some daft threads that have created a lot of replied before starting his spamming.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Since having and skiing with the kids in school hols (in France). I've never used a TO. Part of the fun is DIY and, when done once, becomes an easy blueprint for future years (with a bit on ongoing refinement!).

Accomodation takes up the research and I always use Abritel.fr. The French don't tend to shaft their own so prices etc are quite sensible. Sometimes I've even booked direct if I find the owner has a website. Much cheaper.

Interesting learning point this year. Booked a place in Tignes VC that was advertised as 1 bed. Actually had 2 (which I what I needed but had to double check). Turns out that s bedroom can be only advertised as such if it has a window in it. This didn't but was a perfectly adequate bunk bedded room with a slidey door (not in the hallway!).

Appartements with beds in hallways just don't quite cut it for me!
.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@kettonskimum, A friend has a French chalet with a separate apartment underneath which has a window in the internal bedroom wall as that still counts Very Happy Very Happy
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
kettonskimum wrote:

Accomodation takes up the research and I always use Abritel.fr. The French don't tend to shaft their own so prices etc are quite sensible. Sometimes I've even booked direct if I find the owner has a website. Much cheaper.


I'm always astonished just how few renters take the time to search for the property directly. We're on two of the larger booking sites, where of course we have their exorbitant commission to pay, so our own prices are significantly lower, but the majority of bookers just don't seem to think about it. Returning guests always go direct, of course.

As for the sofa-bed, well we do have one, in fact two, in two of our apartments, but in neither case would I dream of including them in the max beds count on the listings. Only if guests contact us and ask if we can squeeze more does it ever get included on their booking, with a small extra charge to cover the cost of bed linen.

We have had loads of experiences in French ski apartments, so know full well that for a comfortable room for two we'd always need to book a 4 or even 6 person apartment. I gather that newer properties, and some recently renovated ones in e.g. Avoriaz are not quite as small as they used to be, but do they still do the 'two bunks in the corridor and a sofa-bed in the living room' sleeps 4 type of thing? That was the basic model in Flaine and other places back when I used to do SCGB repping.

MorningGory wrote:
@kettonskimum, A friend has a French chalet with a separate apartment underneath which has a window in the internal bedroom wall as that still counts Very Happy Very Happy

Strictly speaking there are additional criteria for what can and can not be counted as 'living space' in French houses, not simply whether there's a window. How that filters down to holiday rentals, i.e. if there's any regulation defining it, I don't know.

Edit: I just saw that you said an internal wall, so no, that could not be counted in normal property law, and therefore I assume that rentals are not (strictly?) controlled.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Chaletbeauroc, Possibly built in a 'grey' period of law!!
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Our apartment has a bedroom window opening onto the external lobby, as do quite a few others in the residence. It also needs to be 9 sq m to count as a bedroom. The apartment does sleep 4 with 2 single sofabeds in the lounge but more often sleeps 2.
French families are fine with the layout though.
We've made sure there is plenty of storage for clothes, hooks for coats and shelves and space to put bedding away. Full oven and 4 ring hob and a decent sized fridge/freezer too, and seating for 4. We'd be happy in there ourselves for a full season I think.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Hells Bells, I hear that to get on to the official Tourist Office accommodation listings that there's quite a detailed questionnaire to complete in order to ascertain how many Stars your accommodation is.

Size of the fridge being just one let alone how many sofa beds Laughing
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

We have had loads of experiences in French ski apartments, so know full well that for a comfortable room for two we'd always need to book a 4 or even 6 person apartment.

I always look at the floor area not the number of people it accomodates.

Our apartment is advertised as 2 rooms and I am sure the bunkroom is under 9m2. It holds 2 bunk beds and a sizable storage area. In fact when just one's wife and one stay in the apartment we use the "alcove" for sleeping as described by @kettonskimum. The bunkroom doesn't even get used.

We do have a sofa bed and it gets used quite a bit. It is not unusual for us to have friends sleeping on it, and indeed using the sleeping bench alongside. We sleep 6 or 7 quite often and have had 8 sleeping in the apartment in the past (it was an emergency). The important thing is managing the baggage not the people. I have one friend who just dumps his bag by the door and lives out of the suitcase. I do not like this.

One thing that annoys me about some apartments we have rented in the past is shortage of seating areas. I like some comfortable seats around a coffee table for more than the number of beds. Afterall you will probably want to invite some people around for drinks and just sitting around the dining table just doesn't feel right to me. We can seat 6 before people have to sit on the hard dining chairs.
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Weathercam, star rating is done by another organisation. Did that during lockdown. Not on TO list though. Sent off the stuff ages ago but they've not responded


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 21-06-22 10:00; edited 1 time in total
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Notwithstanding the age of the thread and spam resurrection, I think it's an intrinsically interesting topic anyway. My initial response was to say that as an apartment owner, given the extra cost of a decent sofa-bed and the time and effort of acquiring and delivering one, I'm surprised it should be seen as a negative feature by anyone. Particularly when - in our block at least- the overwhelming client expectation seems to be that sofas should be sofa-beds by default. They're useful if you have overlap i.e. when some people in the group briefly overlap their visit, you can accommodate them for a night or two on the sofa-bed, without having to rent an extra bedroom that's unused the rest of the holiday. And as mentioned, for some groups, they make the rental affordable compared to having another bedroom.

Misrepresentation of the accommodation is a separate issue and not intrinsically related to whether there's a sofa-bed or not. Any description should include the m² and number of separate bedrooms and the no beds in each of them. And nowadays, if a site doesn't have complete photos' of the interior then it should be regarded as suspect. I'd also be concerned if I couldn't place the accommodation on a map, so as to check the claimed nearness to lifts and shops. Ditto the broadband provision: if the website doesn't say anything about this then that'd be another black mark against the place (because you can be sure that if it had wired 100Mbps unlimited broadband, they'd say so).

As a generalised observation, it seems to me that Swiss apartments trade bedrooms for larger living areas, whereas for the same m², French ones opt to have an additional bedroom at the cost of a smaller living area. Neither is right or wrong, just that it was one reason for us buying in CH - I'm sure our 2-bedrom, sleeps 4 adults, 68m² Swiss apartment would be three bedrooms in France, but we like the larger living space. And in CH, the dividing walls tend to be concrete, not plasterboard, as we often found in French rentals. Plus, we have a proper bath, not just a shower, which again uses up space, but we like it for a good soak after a hard day's skiing or hiking and wouldn't want the extra bedroom if it meant only a shower room.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 21-06-22 18:38; edited 4 times in total
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
When I used to work in Bulgaria and former Yugoslavia almost all private homes I visited had a single bedroom in which the children slept and the parents slept on a sofa bed in the lounge.

ps @LaForet, I agree with you totally. We even have a sofa bed at home.
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@countryman, having participated.... in what way?
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

And in CH, the dividing walls tend to be concrete, not plasterboard, as we often found in French rentals

The French love concrete! In our new MGM-build apartment all the interior walls were concrete.

Otherwise, I agree entirely with @LaForet. It's ironic that the OP of this thread said he was looking for a "cheap deal" then got all hoity toity about sofabeds. Nobody is compelling anybody to sleep on a sofa bed. Feel free to pay more for more "proper" bedrooms. We had a sofa bed but I confess I didn't like having people sleeping on it, unless they were willing to get up promptly in the morning, fold everything out of the way and make the place look respectable for breakfast. Teenagers were a menace, though I found a way..... I used to put my CD of "French café music" on loud until they got the F up. That did the trick.

And, as always, it's personal choice. We had a bath with a shower over. I'd very happily have traded the bath for a slightly bigger second bedroom, or even for a bidet. I never bath and nor did my OH, or many of our visitors. We DID have a separate toilet, which was a blessing, though in normal French style it wasn't equipped with a hand basin as standard. Shocked We had one fitted at significant extra cost.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I sort of agree with the OP in that I do not want to sleep in the lounge, nor force others to. But then you have to pay the extra price for that by paying for a further 10+ m2 of apartment for another bedroom. If you can afford to and are prepared to then great, you don't need a sofa bed.

The size of some of the (mainly French that I see) apartments that are advertised for 4 or 6 is bloody amazing sometimes. It can be less than 20m2. But as has been said by others above, some people love to find the cheapest accommodation they possibly can, and some have to, so it's great that there is this type of place available.
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w, I wonder why these are not more popular

https://images.victorianplumbing.co.uk/images/SE2IN1_nl.jpg
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@pam w, when we moved into our current house, our loo was separate and there was no room for a handbasin even if we'd wanted one in there. Knocked the bathroom wall down so it was one room eventually, making two v small rooms into one reasonable one. Most semi-detached single bathroom houses up here were the same, my parents have only recently changed that as they needed to knock theirs into one room to allow my father to get round more easily.
Until the 1950s most properties had outside loos and a tin bath. A wash basin in a bathroom would have been seen as an unnecessary luxury when there was a basin in the room next door.

@johnE, trouble with that is I see small boys having competitions as to who can pee into the basin. rolling eyes
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Hells Bells, how's that different to a normal basin?
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@JailBaitMcFlude, cos it is in the top of the loo. Their aim is not good, but I would like to bet they would try to pee into the basin on top rather than into the loo. Or is that just my kids wink
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

Until the 1950s most properties had outside loos and a tin bath

Yep, the house where I first lived (from 1947 - 55) had an outside loo and a tin bath. I don't think the tin bath got much of a workout - not enough hot water. The big sink (which would now be called a butler sink I guess) in the scullery did the job. I didn't live in a house with a bathroom till I was 17. In the French place, if we'd not put a basin in the toilet, folks would have been coming out and washing their hands in the kitchen which drives me absolutely mad, not just for hygiene reasons but because in a small kitchen you don't want company! Having the loo separate from the bathroom (where there wasn't one) was a boon, in the morning rush hours.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We used to play ocean voyages in the tin bath, with beach spades as paddles.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@Hells Bells, your boys must lack ambition/imagination if they haven't tried peeing into a normal basin anyway Laughing
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Peeing into an ordinary basin is easy enough for boys. I had to do it on a sleeper train once.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
johnE wrote:
@pam w, I wonder why these are not more popular

https://images.victorianplumbing.co.uk/images/SE2IN1_nl.jpg

Fairly common in Japan and great for water economy.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Somebody who cannot contemplate sleeping on a sofa bed on holiday has clearly never been camping, or stayed on a boat, or in a camper van, or in their aunty's on a Lilo. The Princess and the Pea come to mind. Laughing
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@JailBaitMcFlude, they most definitely have, but I think it would have been more likely in a basin on top of the loo. And I won't mention their father................
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@pam w, Did you not have a water boiler next to the coal fire with an oven the other side along with various grills that you (actually my mother) could swing over the open fire for pans, kettle etc. We did. And yes we had our weekly bath in the tin bath in front of the fire, me, my brother a sister following each other, one at a time, not as depicted in the meaning of life. The pantry was outside with the single cold water tap for the the whole house. The toilet was a seperate building next to the coal house.

We were a coal mining family from Burnhope (West Stone Row). @Hells Bells, would know the place.

ps I could add mountain huts to your list of places you just muck in and sleep next to complete stangers.
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@johnE, I know it. My family are from Dipton and Annfield Plain so I drive through it regularly.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Years (and years) ago - I was staying in an apartment in the Charmettoger area of Arc 1800, just after it had been built. Myself and Lady F slept up on the mezzanine, while my Sister and Sister in Law slept down below.

My Sister-in-Law's bed pulled out from under the main bed in the room. She moaned every night that she was confined to sleeping in a Drawer....It was only on the last night that she discovered the fold up metal legs that lifted it off the floor. Toofy Grin


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 21-06-22 21:22; edited 1 time in total
snow conditions
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

My Sister-in-Law's bed pulled out from under the main bed in the room. She moaned every night that she was confined to sleeping in a Drawer....it was only on the last night that she discovered the fold up metal legs that lifted it off the floor

Ah! we had one in La Rosiere this year, but we discovered after one night the legs to raise it. As an excuse we didn't get to the apartment until 23:00
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
johnE wrote:
Quote:

My Sister-in-Law's bed pulled out from under the main bed in the room. She moaned every night that she was confined to sleeping in a Drawer....it was only on the last night that she discovered the fold up metal legs that lifted it off the floor

Ah! we had one in La Rosiere this year, but we discovered after one night the legs to raise it. As an excuse we didn't get to the apartment until 23:00

We discovered that the complaints dried up in direct proportion to the wine that was consumed....which may have contributed to the length of time it took to discover the legs. Madeye-Smiley
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
pam w wrote:
We DID have a separate toilet, which was a blessing, though in normal French style it wasn't equipped with a hand basin as standard.

It isn't just a quirk of our place then. It is one of the alterations that we are considering, bearing in mind the issues about organising improvements from the UK that you don't really want to happen while you are living there. It would need a very small basin crammed in the corner somehow, not that different from @johnE's solution.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
One of our friends fitted a little basin in himself, but my OH's DIY skills didn't extend to any kind of plumbing!
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
Somebody who cannot contemplate sleeping on a sofa bed on holiday has clearly never been camping, or stayed on a boat, or in a camper van, or in their aunty's on a Lilo. The Princess and the Pea come to mind. Laughing


Or maybe they have, and now they can afford better they don't want to relive those experiences wink

Of course, it is possible to buy a sofa bed that is comfortable to sleep on, but owners of cheap tiny ski apartment don't want to shell out the sort of money needed. And they tend to be on the large side anyway, again contra-indicated by the size of most such apartments.
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
pam w wrote:
One of our friends fitted a little basin in himself, but my OH's DIY skills didn't extend to any kind of plumbing!


That was the very first job I did when we moved into our French house 20 years ago. I had to rip out the bath on the other side of the wall to do it, mind, but that whole bathroom was coloured "goose poo-poo green" so was due for replacement anyway, and unusually for French properties there was actually a second bathroom, even with a proper bath, which we used until the new bathroom was fitted.

But yes, a separate toilet with no wash basin seems to have been very much the norm, something that shocked us coming from the UK.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We owned a house which had been built in 1955 in the UK which had a bathroom with no toilet and next to it a toilet on its own no sink. If we had stayed longer we would have added toilet to bathroom and added a sink yo toilet (and changed from the wonder greyish pink suites!).
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Yeah, my UK house built in the 1930s also had 2 separate indoor toilets neither of which had a wash basin as originally built. I was shocked that they had two bathrooms, both indoors, but then it's a rich area.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The houses I grew up in were terraced (Cardiff) and originally 3 bedrooms. No indoor toilets till far later than they were built. The only way to have a bathroom was either to sacrifice a bedroom or to split one in half - problematical either way and although we owned our houses most around us were rented, and landlords were obviously not inclined to splash out on such niceties. My parents had no spare cash for building work - in the second house we lived next door to my grandmother who had a bathroom (which you had to go through to get to the back bedroom which could have been described as "en suite" by a fanciful estate agent Laughing ). We used her bathroom, on request and by permission. And her telly. We didn't have one of those either, but that was more through choice than lack of funds.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

a separate toilet with no wash basin seems to have been very much the norm, something that shocked us coming from the UK.

I guess no washing of hands after using the toilet?
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
abc wrote:
Quote:

a separate toilet with no wash basin seems to have been very much the norm, something that shocked us coming from the UK.

I guess no washing of hands after using the toilet?


People from the UK shouldn’t act too pretty. When I was in student halls, a room with a sink was referred to as “en-suite” snowHead
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

I guess no washing of hands after using the toilet?

Not necessarily. Just had to go from the outside loo round to the sink in the scullery to wash hands. And having a basin is no guarantee people will use it.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy