Security patrols on piste

A snowHead

First in france. Thin end of the wedge or now needed?
Dodgy Google translation of the press release

A snowHead

Frankly if the security patrols could go and talk to ESF instructors and explain to them that having a red jacket on doesn't mean they can stop in the middle of a piste with their students strewn across the thing, then they will have achieved something. A bit of help educating people with simple etiquette would go a long way.

I think it probably is needed - there's an increase in the number of people who simply can't ski attempting more and more difficult runs and causing injuries. I would like to see action taken against people who cause that kind of injury, and for those who don't take safety seriously to have the reminder in the back of their mind that there are people who are watching.

Particularly in Meribel, there seems to be a funnel of people trying to get into the centre of town, and I've had to take evasive action to avoid people who seemed to think they could ski and board right through me.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hmm, lost count of the number of ESF that broke the "Look uphill before you set-off" part of the skiers code at Paradiski the other week. Forced out onto the rubble on cat-tracks, emergency stop on way into The Tunnel, half a dozen or more times having to take avoiding action.

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There is a need for the same sort of patrols in many resorts. The Skiwelt being the worst I know, they just sell so many passes at peak times that it gets out of hand, when you have drunk and reckless skiiers mixed in with over crowded slopes.

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skid & slide, couldn't agree more. The gangs (of men) who ski in the afternoon having had two, three or more times the alcohol at which it is dangerous to drive give me ther creeps. Particularly noticeable in the Dolomites last week.

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Its sad to think this may be necessary but I'm sure all of us have, at the very least, had a close call as a result of other mountain users not respecting the most basic piste etiquette.

Its interesting to hear the comments about the ESF - I had the conversation with my other half in Avoriaz in Jan that they should be on the front line of teaching etiquette but often seem to be the first to ignore it, so are surely bringing in a continuous stream of irresponsible, selfish skiiers who haven't been taught to know better?

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Not before time. They've done loads in Serre Chevalier to improve safety recently , with more netting to slow down skiers at black spots and piste junctions and more warning signs. Loads of 20 somethings on snow blades 'buzzing' other skiers last year, hope they can do something about them before someone else breaks their neck or worse.

After all it is free

I don't particularly care either way but knowing how high traffic doesn't always equate to high standards of basic common sense let alone adherence to the skier's code can't see the harm in reminding people not to be muppets. I'd include vast crowds standing around at high traffic junctions in the muppet class, I have a basic expectation that skiing should be somewhat more relaxed than navigating the departure board concourse at Liverpool St at rush hour.

If I'm out of control and need telling then fair enough, but if I'm in that situation it'll be over pretty soon anyway when I hit the deck.

If I'm skiing fast, within my limits and adjusting to the changing situation around me and I get told to slow down then I'd be inclined to tell them to pi55 off.

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See this is what happens when you let poor people on the slopes Razz

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papasmurf, I agree, when I was a lad only goat hearders and the like was on slopes, then we used to work 25 hour day and clean road with tonge. Don't tell me I was lucky. I know my mate used to get up before he went to bed.

Bed?? pure luxury Laughing

You know it makes sense.

Been around in Whistler for a long time, have no problem with the idea at all (despite the odd chat wink

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They are mostly on the beginner areas and at the bottom of the mountain and pull your pass if you ski/board like an inconsiderate/dangerous pr!ck.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

So in summary: the problem is everone else, and if they stop any of you they're liable to get a load of abuse. Laughing

I'm not about to post that Snowbasin TouTube link yet again, as I'm sure you've all seen it, but consider what sort of jobsworth mini-Hitler applies for a minor position of power like piste patrol. It'll be like going through customs three times a day.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

...in contrast to the jobsworth ticket vendor who doesn't give refunds wink

One ski patroller losing it doesn't make them all evil barstewards. In North America the slow patrol works perfectly well precisely because they aren't heavy handed and they catch mainly the blue run heros/cattrack jibsters in need of serious education. Anyone who is really capable of skiing very fast and in control chucks in a few exaggerated slow turns and generally gets the nod. Ive had a couple of run ins when we've had differences of opinion about relative speeds on an empty piste but easy enough to part on good terms.

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fatbob, Deux Alpes Loisirs doesn't give refunds. Or rather it does, but under specific stated circumstances, in common with pretty much every other business in the world. The ticket vendor's role is largely to tell people what those circumstances are, assuming they can get a word in edgewise while people scream abuse and call them whores (we called the gendarmes on that one and had him carted off). Or do you think I should just hand over my employer's money to anyone who asks for it? Don't be such a tosser.

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I think this can only be a good idea especially in those resorts that have a big beginners area that everyone has to ski home through. Although it might also be a good idea to somehow mark out a "path" through the middle of these.

What about some sort of very basic competence test a bit like the driving theory test? Believe it or not, not everyone knows the rules. I posted elsewhere about an incident I had where the French gentleman who scythed me down from behind/uphill was adamant that the skier on the left of the piste had priority, and so were his charming companions. They could have been bullsh*tting me but I dont think they were; they genuinely believed it. So how many people are out there skiing on the basis of what their uncle Gaston taught them in 1974?

The fact is ski-ing and boarding are more popular every year (if you iron out blips due to recession or poor snow years etc) the increased traffic itself causes a problem and possibly also the wider appeal means we are getting a higher proportion of inconsiderate idiots on the slope than when ski-ing was a more specialised activity? I've no empirical evidence for this, its just a gut feeling Very Happy

.

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papasmurf, Let them eat cakes Smile

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After all it is free

I better watch out when I am out with my lad later in March in the 3V's, we always seem to get into trouble when we ski together rolling eyes

O nice pic on that linkBoredsurfing, wonder where he got his gloves Toofy Grin

Lizzard, It was a joke dear scaley one. While I have a bit of an issue with European resorts' refund policies generally (particularly in the case of limited openings & cynical opening of crappy low level lifts) I realise that vendors are just doing their job as are patrollers. To suggest that you'd need to be a little hitler to want to be a speed cop is equally far fetched so I assume you are joking also, reality is most of them do it for the lift ticket.

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You know it makes sense.

homers double, Shock

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Haha.

A snowHead

As a self-confessed and perfectly happy at that level piste cruiser, I'd be all in favour of a more pro-active level of Piste Patrol. Not necessarily pulling passes but educating people as to their behaviour.

If people want to ski fast/do tricks/jumps etc I'm all for that, but jumping straight onto a blue out the trees and taking my kids out - err I don't think so thank you. Point them at the park, blacks etc

I wouldn't want to get to a stage when a test was required to use the pistes! But having said that, the market will react to demands - if people want heavily patrolled pistes etc, someone will use this in their marketing to pull in families etc

A snowHead

I'm in favour of an entry level assessment, imagine the damage you could do to a group of young kids at 10mph in a car.

Now imagine the damage an out of coontrol skiier weighing 15st with ski's, poles and a helmet could do to the same bunch of kids at 30mph.

Obviously not the very same bunch as a lot of them would be at home with broken bones...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

homers double, how would it work though? You'd have to do it somewhere close to ticket office, and most people will be able to pull off a few turns to pass but it won't stop a genuine out of control moment.

Plus the whole losistics issue - do you have to rent skis first, can you get a discount if then returned, does the assessment last a season, can it be moved between resorts?

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I know, doesn't stop it sounding like a sensible, if not a nanny state idea.

In fact scrap what I just said, next thing "they" will be checking if we can ride mountain bikes in a sfae manner then where will it stop.

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Not this old chestnut. Assessment is pointless - while showing you can control yourself in under observed conditions is one thing, actively controlling yourself while out in 'the wild' is another. You'd need to implement some kind on internationally recognised license, which everyone would have to agree on, and the international community can't even agree on standards of instructors. And a resort saying "Yes, this guy can ski safely" opens them up for all kinds of potential legal issues should you then go on to wipe out a ski-school of nuns carrying kittens in baskets.

Better to invest in eyes on the ground who can pull up people acting like twunts on their dangerous skiing and issue on-the-spot fines as well as pulling passes.

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My suggestion would be to put the FIS 10 rules of sking on the back of every lift pass, I draw you attention particularly numbers 9 and 10

Every young skier I teach has to know these off by heart to get his 3* do you??

You are responsible for your own safety and that of other skiers and snow boarders. Be aware of people around you and take necessary action to avoid skiing dangerously or causing a hazard to yourself or others.

•Control your direction and speed of travel, taking account of the terrain, snow, weather and traffic conditions.

•Select an appropriate path. If you are skiing behind someone it’s your responsibility to ski around them without causing any danger to them.

•You can over-take from either left or right but you must leave enough distance between yourself and other skiers to allow them to manoeuvre properly.

•Before starting off or pulling out you must look up and down the slope and choose an appropriate moment to execute your manoeuvre, so as not to endanger yourself or other skiers.

•Avoid stopping at blind corners or narrow or enclosed places unless you have to i.e. you’re injured. In the case of an injury you must vacate the spot as soon as practicable, to avoid further danger (to yourself or others). You should always stop at the side of the piste.

•You must always use the side of the piste to walk up or down, whether with or without skis on.

•Pay attention to and follow the signs, markings and notices on the piste.

•You are obliged by law to offer help and assistance in the event of any accident.

•You are also obliged by law to give your personal details in the event of an accident, whether you caused it, witnessed it or assisted at it.

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OH Dear OH Dear.
as the resorts get busier and busier it suddenly becomes worthwhile to employ people, lets call them police, to police the slopes. Then to find things to do with their time all sorts of ideas get implemented, like speed guns, pass confiscation (a good earner for the resort that one), then breath tests (oops better go easy on the apres ski if I am skiing in the morning)...then increase the cordons on the piste to segregate skiers by jacket colour....how about ski licences, so the resort can charge for simply breathing on their mountains...oh yes and an environmental charge for the all the CO2 we exhale....

aaahhh, the sweet freedom of getting away from it all and going skiing......those were the days!
never mind there is always the off piste to play in.....isn't there?

After all it is free

Problem is, what starts out as a perfectly reasonable proposition very quickly turns into a complete mess. speed patrols doesn't sound like a bad idea, but what are the conditions? Piste difficulty, crowdy-ness, ability of skier - all relative and subjective. There will be some glaringly obvious examples, but not many.

Police (in the UK at least) are not allowed to issue on the spot fines and take the cash there and then. Several reasons for this, not least of which is everyone is entitled to appeal. Now some above are talking about creating the situation that will allow the confiscation of a pass that has a value of £200+, with no appeal. Never mind civil liberties, the opportunities for bribery corruption are huge.

A three strikes and your out rule might be an option, but then for it to work there would need to be a system for marking the lift pass, and have that data recorded, activated etc. Top marks to the lift company that does the required work for that, but I can't see any of them rushing to implement.

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Security patrols on piste

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