 Poster: A snowHead
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Is everyone doing some kind of gymnastic cooking? I've quite happily cooked my tartiflette, spag bol, raclette, fondue etc in a 17m2 apartment and we sat down at a table on chairs. If you want to spunk more money on a bigger apartment then that's up to you, but my budget is limited and if it's a choice between 2 trips to a slightly bigger apartment or 3 trips to a smaller apartment then we cwtch up (that's Welsh not a spelling mistake). 18 days on the mountain for the price of 12? Where do I sign up 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
25m2 for a family of 4 is , IMHO, just way too small
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I think it really depends on the layout of the apartment.
Mrs B and I have often stayed in our 23 Sq.m apartment with 2 other adults and have never felt cramped. We wouldn't recommend it for 6 (adult) guests however, despite the sofa bed and 2 sets of bunks, although a couple of families of 5 (with 3 young children) have stayed there on occasion.
For the record, we advertise on Owners Direct and Holiday Rentals websites.
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| Quote: |
I honestly believe the ski accommodation market (especially in France) could do with a review as the apartments which everyone is referring to on this thread (20 sq M) etc are just not acceptable any more in my opinion
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Given the content of this thread, don't you think that's rather an arrogant attitude? There are plenty of people who cope perfectly well with staying in small apartments and welcome the fact that it's cheap. Some couldn't afford it any other way, some get two holidays for the price of one more luxurious one. Why should someone who wants to rent a small apartment - or who has a small apartment that brings in a useful rental income - "review" their arrangements because "in your opinion" they're not fit for purpose?
France has an extraordinarily wide range of accommodation to rent - it's really not difficult, at all, to find a bigger, more expensive apartment if that's what you're looking for.
A young French couple bought the chalet over the road and by dint of an enormous amount of work have enlarged and converted the basement into a very nice apartment which sleeps up to 14. Few yards from the piste, rent ranges from 900 - 2200 a week. Separate bedrooms, nobody on sofa beds, plenty of bathrooms. There are a number of extremely good places to rent in the vicinity, as well as plenty of the older "rabbit hutches". What could be better? Everyone can pay their money and take their choice.
As long as there's no misprepresentation in the description, I fail to see the problem.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We did stay in this one in the Cimes de Caron block in Val Thorens last year that was dreadful though. It wasn't so much the size, but the fact that nothing worked, and it was in a right state when we arrived. Toilet full of poo and paper, carpets filthy Etc.
http://www.val-thorens-apartment.com
NOTE: It was an apartment owned by a snowhead who did not even have the good grace to respond to my email of complaint.
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pam w, Here here.
Last year I was given the option of buying 2 cabins, each of 9m2 (a bit bigger than most hotel and chalet rooms I have stayed in). I declined but noticed that over the Christmas period they were in use. For many people small and inexpensive is better than lots of space they never use. you pays your money and makes your choice
John
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| Quote: |
It was an apartment owned by a snowhead who did not even have the good grace to respond to my email of complaint
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that's shocking! Name and shame, I'd say. If only to save someone else having the same experience.
The trouble with some British owners is that they can't easily make good arrangements for cleaning and handover, or maybe try to do it on the cheap, relying on people to clean up after themselves. Which most people will do, but obviously there are some unpleasant exceptions.
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pam w, no need to name and shame - he has named the website - easy to spot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| 9m2 (a bit bigger than most hotel and chalet rooms I have stayed in) |
I think I'm going mad. Have just paced out an imaginary 3x3 room and stood in the middle holding an imaginary cat by the tail. And that's BIGGER than most you've stayed in? On the plus side it doesn't take much heating.
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holidayloverxx, yes, I'm being dim, aren't I? Still don't know who it is though - and as it's solidly booked till towards the end of April, let's hope the poo problem has been sorted out. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, I have met him; I'm surprised by the feedback.I suspect that it was an unfortunate error or somesuch
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes 9 m2. I just stayed in a hotel in London and there was just enough room for two single beds almost touching. We have had chalet rooms with a double bed you could just walk around. The cabines had two bunk beds a small kitchen area. Toilets and bathrooms were shared between the two and were outside the cabines.
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The main bedroom in our apartment has a double bed that you can just walk round two sides of. One side (mine!) is against the wall.
Mind you, it is a Super King Size.
I get out of the bed, then walk round it and out of the room. I have, thankfully, felt no desire to swing a cat in there but there's plenty of room for all the things I actually do want to do in a bedroom.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| pam w, I have met him; I'm surprised by the feedback.I suspect that it was an unfortunate error or somesuch |
Not good that he didn't contact the guest about the complaint though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Haha we had 8 in a mezzanine studio type place in the Cheval Blanc in Val Thorens last week.
The place slept 6-8 (so there were 6 singles and a pullout double). We put the pull out double away during the day so we actually had a decent sized living area. Only problem was that there was only one loo, but it was separate from the 2 showers which was an unexpected plus. It had a balcony too which made useful beer and spirits storage.
Was absolutely fine unless you're a massive fanny.
I live with my GF in a 25m2 studio and that's fine too (not for much longer though, getting a 45m2-ish real place soon, woop).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the "standard" apartment is totally bearable as long as you have realistic (low) expectations. I've stayed in 4 or five different ones over the years. None have been stunning but all have been functional. In fact, the one time i payed substantially more to ensure an extra bedroom, i was pretty underwhelmed at what the extra money got me. I'd pick location over luxury any time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I wouldn't like to go away with multiple mates and stay in a tiny apartment but at this time in my life, holiday time is the limiting factor. As I am only getting to go skiing so for 1 or 2 weeks a year (and only paying for myself!) its nice to have a 'proper' holiday and stay in a catered chalet.
However on my gap year / uni I had a few trips to tiny apartments and like everyone else says its just a matter of having realistic expectations, and if I had kids I'd rather take the whole family to a cramped apartment than have no ski holiday at all!
I saw a really good tip on one of the other threads a while ago - someone said that they always take their slow cooker away with them if they arae driving and self catering and I thought that was an ace idea for easy catering for several people with limited space or cooking equipment.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Quick update - despite getting a read receipt from the owner and sending a backup text said he didn't get my confirmation and has let it to someone else  .
So we are back to square one... I think we are going for something 30-40m but can't decide if it is better to have a 1 bed of 30m or a 2 bed of 35m (presumably squeezing the extra room in makes the living space tiny).
To be honest the two things worrying us are lack of somewhere to hang wet ski gear and lack of comfortable seating - even in a 2 bed the living room has a bed with a bed under it (so they can squeeze in 6) rather than a sofa. Those sofa-beds have never looked very comfortable - like sitting on a bed and as we intend to be in the apartment (awake) for about 6 hours a night we want comfy seats.
That is why I prefer to find a 'privately rented' apartment as the owners of those seems to furnish them better (for their own comfort). I am not in the least bit concerned about the age or colour of the decor, as long as the mattresses are new(ish) and not lumpy - bit of an 80's babe anyway so brown flowery bathroom tiles and coloured suites are fine by me lol!
Just glad I didn't jump ahead of myself and book our ski hire as we might not even end up in the same ski area
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimom, how are you actually going about your search?
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To be honest the two things worrying us are lack of somewhere to hang wet ski gear and lack of comfortable seating
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I've never had a big problem with the former as ski gear tends to dry pretty well in a warm up apartment. Most apartments I've stayed in only have a sofa with the enough for 3 adults to sit on. Anybody else has to use a chair or the floor. Personally I've never found it a big deal but that maybe just how we live. I've never found the sofa's particularly uncomfortable.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've been looking for apartments based on 4-6 people for the week of 11th on lots of different sites, then if they look like they are suitable and free I contact the owner.
I think our priorities are:
1 "proper" double or twins for us in a separate room
ideally bunks in a hall/curtained area or 2nd beds in a room for the kids
enough "comfortable" seating in lounge for the 4 of us
tv + dvd would be good (but we can take our own)
parking is a must
ski-in/out preferable but don't mind a short bus ride to slopes as long as bus stop is close and first lift gets you to skiing - didn't really like Samoens arrangement where we had bus ride, cable car, walk, cable car then traipse back down a level to ski storage to get skis and carry them back up slippy stairs - took almost an hour from the door to start skiing. However, the apartment was fine - two bedrooms, small kitchen/living room - probably a 6 person, but only furnished for 4 so had a proper sofa and arm chairs rather than a sofa-bed in the living room. The hall had room for ski boots, hanging wet jackets etc. and bedrooms had shelving for clothes.
Now I think about it that was an MGM apartment so probably wasn't as big as we thought. Pity I can't find out what size it was - as it was perfect size. The rooms weren't huge, 1 double, 1 bunks. Bathroom was length of the bath and width of bath+sink had a separate toiled and standard 'american' kitchen in the living room - just enough room for that, a table and sofa/chairs.
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So how many owners have you contacted?
I just quickly went on www.homelidays.co.uk drilled down to a couple of places I know - namely Les Coches and La Norma (both ski in/ski out). There seemed to be one suitable place in each that was available. One was 700 Euros, the other 800 Euros (much bigger).
I tend to find owners respond quite quickly or not at all. And in your circs I'd probably try and ring.
Your requirements seem reasonable as long as you are happy to pay 700/800 Euros?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimom,
If you are prepared to drive to Austria (which is not a lot further) You can often get really good privately rented appartments that are spacious and not too expensive. In addition you will often find that lift passes for families are more reasonable depending on the age of your children. The downside is that they are rarely ski in ski out. Though parking near the lifts is often easy and free.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimom, the problem - the only problem - in finding what you want is that it is half term, and very, very, last-minute. If you can find anything that's vaguely suitable I wouldn't spend too much time wondering about how comfortable the sofas are - just grab it. I also agree that telephoning the owner would be a good idea.
In our MGM development, 45 sq metre apartments with 2 bedrooms rent for about 1100/1150 euros a week in half term and they all got rented a long, long, time ago. Mine is being borrowed by a niece who is a classroom assistant, as we don't do school holidays!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Unbearable is the answer well for me mostly. I can not understand why people that live in perfectly good homes would want to subject themselves to very like convicted criminal conditions to go skiing for a week in France. When you can go to lots of other country's with great skiing and much better accommodation? Yes I Know there is great skiing and great food to be had, but that can also be said about Italy, Austria, Canada, America, and lots of other countries without the need for four people to sleep in a room 8ft square with beds overlapping. I personally have voted with my feet and I will not put up with it. Is there a EU regulation regarding sq meters and people per apartment if not there should be. Mind you I did have a good time in Tignes last year. Small apartment but who cares your only there for a week.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, The point is yes there is great skiing in France. But in Ten, Twenty or Thirty years down the line our kids or grand children will say they lived in this for a week? how did they do that? And the only Answer will be, because they paid for it. Look at how most people regard Butlins of the 1960s. Because as we all know the people with the product want as much money as they can get and if people pay they will not change. So it will carry on in France until people don't come.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It really isn't that bad.
I paid £279 for VT lift pass (188€ on it's own) and accomodation, and given the value that represents I'd put up with significantly worse accomodation for the same price. I've paid more per night for much worse youth hostels around Europe. You're only there for a week and you're there to ski anyway, so long as I don't have to share a bed and there's space for my stuff I don't really care.
And ten, twenty, thirty years down the line they'll either be squeezing 10 people in instead of 8 or there won't be any snow anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bobmcstuff, But the point I am making is that if no one went they would change, it's only while there is a demand that they are geting away with it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skid & slide wrote: |
| bobmcstuff, But the point I am making is that if no one went they would change, it's only while there is a demand that they are geting away with it. |
They aren't getting away with anything. It's hourses for courses, you pays your money and takes your choice. We don't need some huge apartment to swan around, we need a functional apartment for a reasonable price (with 2 kids and a wife who is a teacher we *have* to go during school holidays which pushes all the prices up).
The memories we take from our ski holidays are mostly on the mountain or a bit of the apres, I can't imagine looking back on a ski holiday about how much extra floorspace we had on any one occassion.
We go camping in the summer for our holidays (so we can keep the bucks to go away a couple of times to the snow when winter comes around), so I suppose our requirements for comfort levels whilst on holiday appear to be lower than most on here
You make it sound like we're off to some prison camp or something, we have a great time and our riding improves much more with 3 or 4 weeks a season than it would in 1 or 2 weeks in a larger apartment.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bobmcstuff, Looking round my front room I think I could sleep ten on the floor no problem. So the way the french fit them in that would be thirty, as we all know you only need eight hours sleep and if they put the flood lights up your only there to ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skid & slide wrote: |
| bobmcstuff, Looking round my front room I think I could sleep ten on the floor no problem. So the way the french fit them in that would be thirty, as we all know you only need eight hours sleep and if they put the flood lights up your only there to ski. |
I think the most obvious thing to take out of this thread is that different people have different requirements for their holiday accommodation. If I was an investment banker then I might go and hire a huge chalet for my family with a jacuzzi and eat in the finest restaurants but a) I can't afford it and b) it would be a lot different from our current holiday, probably better in some ways, probably worse in others.
We have a top time when we go away and get to go more often than a lot of our friends because for us it's all about being on the mountain. I can fully understand why someone would want a bigger apartment but for us it's a trade between affordability and time on the mountain and time on the mountain wins the argument for us.
Don't you think you're being a bit elitist, kind of 'Oh gosh how can you stay in such an awful place?', you have different requirements - fine. You don't have to look down your nose at people who are different from you 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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TotallyBoard, bobmcstuff, What I am asking is how far can they push you, what is OK because they have great skiing? I think they have it to the max now but who knows?
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| skid & slide wrote: |
| TotallyBoard, bobmcstuff, What I am asking is how far can they push you, what is OK because they have great skiing? I think they have it to the max now but who knows? |
Are you enquiring how supply and demand work? Just do a quick google for it and all will become clear
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You gets what you pays for. Our apartment was very cheap and I thought very good value. If I paid more I would want a bigger apartment, or maybe a better equipped apartment. Less and I would expect it to be smaller/worse equipped.
They can push it as far as they like so long as the price point keeps up. Our apartment could have been a 6 person (rented as 6 or  but that would have increased the price per person - we decided to stick 8 people in to keep the price down. If they/we squeezed more people in (which would have been really really easy for us since we could have let as many people in as we wanted an no-one would have known) then the price per person would have been even lower and we would have had correspondingly reduced space per person.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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TotallyBoard, I can asure you I am not looking down my nose at anyone, never have never would. I have been there done that france apartment thing. It's just that I won't let it happen again to me by going to other countries with great skiing and good accommodation. Mind you saying that I am off to St Anton in March and that is looking expensive.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| ....stood in the middle holding an imaginary cat by the tail. |
Yer don't hold a cat by the tail, you hold it by the handle.
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FAQ
