 Poster: A snowHead
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What about that run in Les Arcs - it's about piste names after all
ecureuils
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bertie bassett, that's a very awkward diphthong. My mum, who otherwise spoke French like a native, couldn't get her tongue round 'oeil' 'ecureuils' etc and pronounced the diphthong as 'oy' - which it isn't. Sorry, the transliteration of it has defeated me. Harrap has 'oej' for it, which probably doesn't help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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how about saying "curry" without the c and rr?
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I believe there is a piste in St. Gallenkirch called "Eichhörnchen". It's my favourite German word (means squirrel btw as does "écureuil").
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I always think you can tell a northerner from a southerner - wherever the boundary is! - here, by the way they pronounce the word 'one' and that is irrespective of age and social class.
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and "bath", maybe, though there's a whole lot of ways of saying it, not just two, including a variety of different Scottish ones. and that's without even starting on the cruelly tortured vowels of Northern Ireland.
I used to be fairly fluent in Glaswegian but I've lost the knack after being away 20 years. Just spent a few days up there and the easyJet check in person had to say "Did you pay for speedy boarding?" at least 3 times before I cottoned on that I was in the wrong queue. I was very early, and there were three desks, and I was the only person at any of them, which might have made my incomprehension that much greater.
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ecureuils - ay-cue-ray, more or less
there's a lot of subtlety and rolling together of sounds in french, i know a lot of anglophones who are technically fluent french speakers but who have rotten accents and struggle to "sound" french
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nbt, uh-uh, 'ray' doesn't hack it. It's more like a German o with an umlaut, followed by ee, followed by that exhalation again.
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Pedantica, without getting into proper phonetics it's as close as most english people will get. and yes, i speak french.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pedantica, my german's terrible, so I'm not entirely sure how your version works  . i know how I'd pronounce it, but tbh I always hated phonetics so for me it's very hard to get "proper" pronunciation across in written form. My french accent is very southern too, I lived in Pau and I've still got the nasal twang typical of the area
Never seen My Fair Lady either - another one to add to the list
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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nbt,
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always hated phonetics so for me it's very hard to get "proper" pronunciation across in written form.
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Me too, fairly evidently!
I quite like that nasal twang - it goes with sunshine, lavender, wine and so on!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nbt, learned much of my French in Tarbes and still have a hint of the pang and vang as well!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Local pronunciation tends to be a law unto itself anywhere. Round here, many locals say "Chidester" instead of "Chichester" and Bosham is always pronounced as Bozzum - anyone saying Bosham to rhyme with Cosham (a few miles up the road) would get odd looks. Quite a lot of piste names in our part of France are Savoyard rather than French, too (e.g. Cuberote, which is not difficult to pronounce and which means "to fall" in Savoyard - or so I'm told.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| Pedantica, whilst we're wrinkling away, what about a mountain restaurant called "Les Halles". I have vague recollections of being told that it was wrong to pronounce the "z" at the end of Les in front of "Halles". I've never actually asked the proprietor, which would have been sensible! |
I *think* that is because the 'H' is a consonant, so the "rule" of not pronouncing the 's' in 'les' works. Seems inconsistent to include the H like that, but then to not pronounce it, but it's their language.
| Pedantica wrote: |
Boredsurfing
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how does one pronounce Reims
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You don't even spell it like that in France! |
I think they do - on Michelin maps, and on roadsigns and Champagne bottles, they do, I'm sure. Pronunciation is an altogether more difficult thing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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simon_bates,
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Also, I completely lied when I said Tignes should be pronounced 'Tig-nez'. Sorry. But it is fun to pronounce it that way as a joke.
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But in about 10 days time when the Spanish invade Tignes for the Inmaculada holiday you will hear a lot of 'Tig-nes' as in Big-ness
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Yellow Pyranha, oops.  I knew there was an English spelling and a French one, but got them mixed up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Pedantica wrote: |
| Yellow Pyranha, oops. I knew there was an English spelling and a French one, but got them mixed up. |
Actually, I Googled it, and they, and Wikipedia, think that Rheims is an alternative - 'though the only places I generally think of as having English names are Lyon and Marseille to which we, curiously, add a silent 's', and Burgundy - I wouldn't be surprised to hear there are others . . .
How does my 'Les Halles' explanation stand up? Even with that, I still pronounce Les Houches with the 's' on the Les (and was corrected on the bus once reminding me I was going 'aux Houches' with the 'x' pronounced, when I had said 'a les Houches'), but they're Savoyardes, not French, aren't they?
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Yellow Pyranha, I would say Les Houches without the 's' and aux Houches with the 'x'. Dunno why, they just sound right.  Sorry, I'm a bit hazy on rules, in both French and English, I never learnt many in either language, just relied on speaking them a lot and, I suppose, picked up pronunciation and spelling from listening and general reading. I learned very little English grammar at school (and remember even less in any formal sense) and only did 'academic' French to O-Level, so am mildly illiterate in the language. Nowadays I seldom write in French - I used to have to do so for work at one stage - and need Bescherelle Grammar and Conjugation to hand when I do.
I learnt lots of Latin grammar, though.
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| Yellow Pyranha wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Pedantica, whilst we're wrinkling away, what about a mountain restaurant called "Les Halles". I have vague recollections of being told that it was wrong to pronounce the "z" at the end of Les in front of "Halles". I've never actually asked the proprietor, which would have been sensible! |
I *think* that is because the 'H' is a consonant, so the "rule" of not pronouncing the 's' in 'les' works. Seems inconsistent to include the H like that, but then to not pronounce it, but it's their language. |
Huh. I'd probably have pronounced that something like "leh zahls", otherwise you end up with something awful like "le' 'alles" with a glottal stop in the middle; that sounds far too awkward to be correct French pronunciation?
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| Serriadh wrote: |
| Huh. I'd probably have pronounced that something like "leh zahls", otherwise you end up with something awful like "le' 'alles" with a glottal stop in the middle; that sounds far too awkward to be correct French pronunciation? |
No, and I'm sure one of the nearer to 'native' speakers than I will correct me, but I would say you don't put a glottal stop in there (or a very soft one, if you do). This is what PamW and Pendatica were saying - the 's' in 'les' is not pronounced in Les Halles an Pedantica would not pronounce it in Les Houches either. I do pronounce it in Les Houches, but that is a habit formed when I first stayed there back in the '80s, and I definitely don't claim to be correct!
We anglophones tend to automatically put the 's' in there because we think of a word beginning with 'h' as effectively beginning with a vowel, but it actually begins with a silent consonant. Conversely, some folk will tell you that "an hotel" is more correct than "a hotel", even if they pronounce the 'h'. Hurrah for consistency!
But I've been going to "Layz oosh" off and on for over 25 years and I don't think anyone has corrected me (except for the grammatical error mention above, but my excuse was I was only 17 at the time).
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Serriadh, it's like "les héros" . If you say "layz éros" it gives quite a different impression. You don't need a glottal stop - you wouldn't put a glottal stop in "the army", would you. Or (in French) "péage". Can do two adjacent vowels without a glottal stop!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I spent over a year trying to explain to my dad that La Thuile wasn't pronounced 'La Thwee'.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Faicaill Ridge at Cairngorm seems to be pronounced 'vehicle'. For quite a while, I assumed there was a special tow just for vehicles; a sort of poma for pisting machines
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The thread ran to 4 pages last time it was asked how to pronounce "les Deux Alpes", and I STILL don't know why it's pronounced "The Twelve Alps" when theres only 2 of them...
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Serriadh, it's like "les héros" . If you say "layz éros" it gives quite a different impression. You don't need a glottal stop - you wouldn't put a glottal stop in "the army", would you. Or (in French) "péage". Can do two adjacent vowels without a glottal stop! |
In both 'the army' and 'péage' its a dipthong (at least for me...) ee-ah and ay-ah respectively, which is a smooth transition between sounds. I guess something more along the lines of 'thuh army' has a sort of palatised stop in there somewhere.
I shall ask my partner's mum to give a pronunciation example for 'les h*' next time I bump into her... she's conveninetly bilingual in French. Unless of course one of you guys is going to provide an IPA example for me 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What about that run in Les Arcs - it's about piste names after all
ecureuils
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If it is related to that flat one in La Plagne it is called 'doh!' with a shaking fist.
I have trouble with Bioallay. [I can't even spell it let alone say it]. Seems to crop up in a couple of resorts and I wish I knew what it meant.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I STILL don't know why it's pronounced "The Twelve Alps" when theres only 2 of them...
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 It's not dooze Alps.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| I find "La Plagne" easier to say than "Tignes". |
That's helpful when you want to go to Tignes but have to catch the coach to La Plagne as it's the only thing you can say...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, I always struggle with the pronounciation of 'Ecureuils' in Plan Peisey - but then 'Squirrel' is tricky if you have a bit of a speech impediment 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| apparently I'm a good mimic of basic phrases... |
I get that quite often.Seems my pronunciation is often quite near the mark? Not that I have a whole lot of French..just a random selection of 'get me out of jail phrases' 
I believe part of the problem stems from the massive range of dialects that exist? More than the UK,no idea?But the French often appear very anal about this sort of thing.
I'm as guilty as many...one of my favourites being Troyes.Stopped off there many times,and was deeply embarrassed when told the correct way....which is Twa,emphasis on the T and a,short and sharp.How on earth do you work that one out 
My other favourite is Euro.Had a simple conversation once,ref the price of something.....they had no idea where I was coming from I knew the rest of the sentance was pretty spot on,but I had missed the pronunciation of euro....which turned out to be 'uro'...heavy emphasis on the u,in a sort of gutterel fashion.This was in the North,but have used it ever since without further problem.
I've always doubted British claims of fluency.Yes,some will get very close,but in the end they are not French;and the French know it(to their amusement )
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snowskisnow,
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heavy emphasis on the u
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Really? Possibly in explaining the sound to you - but the emphasis is on the 'o'. Syllables are often emphasized incorrectly - for example, British people rarely pronounce Chamonix correctly, the emphasis is actually on the last syllable.
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The place I have trouble pronouncing is the village where Patch lives, Villarlurin - a real tongue twister if you try and say it quickly (and as every fule kno, the key to speaking French well is to speak very, very quickly. )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I STILL don't know why it's pronounced "The Twelve Alps" when theres only 2 of them...
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It's not dooze Alps. |
So why does everyone pronounce it "Les dooze alps"? If you pronounce les deux Alpes as "les deu alpes" people look at you funny, EVEN IN LES DEUX BLOODY ALPES! Perhaps they're saying "les deu Zalps" in which case what the hell is a Zalp?
Was I off sick the day they taught us that silent X's are pronounced as Z when in proximity to an Alp?
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