 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| skimottaret, the situation is fluid, with the discussions about a common test taking place in Europe at the moment. |
Any chance of an update on the discussions about a common test? I have asked several times to at least get some bullet points from BASI about what OUR submission to the EU contained, A green paper was issued so confidentiality shouldnt be an issue...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skifluff, Someone from the BASI office wants to call you to discuss the ISIA test. Please can you PM me your real name, and I will arrange for them to call you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If any members would like to discuss how to enter the ISIA test they should call the office. A definitive statement on the test has not been published as given the current discussions regarding the ISIA test and Eurotest the situation is somewhat fluid, so will be addressed on a case by case basis
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BASI has issued the following statement:
“BASI Members can sign on to a Swiss ISIA speed test directly through the Swiss Snowsports web site. We understand that only Members who have completed their entire Level 3 will be accepted. The ISIA stamp is given to BASI Members who have completed the Level 3 modules, without having to have passed the speed test, and the ISIA card is given to Members who have completed their L4 modules.
An update on the common speed test can be seen here: http://www.isiaski.org/en/6/2011.html “
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What is the benefit of having an ISIA Card? I've tried getting cheaper lift passes in Saas Fee and Zermatt over the last 2 weeks and they've never heard of it.
All they care about is the stamp.
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jjc james, yeah maybe some of the lift companies dont know/care but swisssnowsports do, ISIA card is issued to the highest level given to swiss instructors, so its important when BASI members want to gain swiss equivalence and helps with jobs. Also the highest level in canada, oz/nz also trying to get the card for their instructors. Not recognised by france/italy/austria/germany, it is endorsed by BASI. Basically helpful for all instructors without a purely euro-centric outlook.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
BASI has issued the following statement:
“BASI Members can sign on to a Swiss ISIA speed test directly through the Swiss Snowsports web site. We understand that only Members who have completed their entire Level 3 will be accepted. The ISIA stamp is given to BASI Members who have completed the Level 3 modules, without having to have passed the speed test, and the ISIA card is given to Members who have completed their L4 modules.
An update on the common speed test can be seen here: http://www.isiaski.org/en/6/2011.html “ |
It doesn't affect me, but I'd be spitting taks if I'd received this reply. It's yet another "non-reply reply" which now seems to be the default position for BASI  . They clearly have appointed someone from the Government Press Office to draft their replies.
This is still carefully avoiding answering the question (that seems to have been asked in every possible way) of whether the ISIA card will be issued to those who have passed all L4 modules except the Eurotest, but have passed the ISIA test. It's a simple question and has a simple answer, yes or no.
It's perfectly clear that passing all L3 modules gets the ISIA stamp, and all L4 modules (which includes the Eurotest) gets you the ISIA card. This has been answered several times, and it's a waste of everyone's time to keep on putting out statements saying the same thing.
What's the difference between a BASI and politician's statement? ......No, got me on that one.
(I also don't see anything about the ISIA speed test - other than its regular appearance in the pyramid diagram - in that link)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah, i know what you mean, it is worded ambiguosly, still at least they confirmed BASI members can enter the race! which im sure meant that they had to have had some contact with the race organisers (swisssnowsports), so that it is a good start.
Im choosing to read it that you get the card with ISIA test and other L4 modules completed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skifluff, yes, the first half is useful information. I should have made it clear that I was reserving my vituperation for the second half of that statement - which bears no connection to the first. Given the context of the question, the second half is either incompetent or deliberately obfuscatory. Lacking a clear statement, I think you're being a bit optimistic in your interpretation.
gilleski, yep, fine, but the whole point is that the stamp/card are awarded by member bodies to those completing courses administered by those specific member bodies. How other member bodies handle adherence to the minimum standards is not relevant to how BASI (or IASI) wishes to interpret its own rules within that minimum outline.
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You know it makes sense.
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skifluff, i read it that the ISIA test is completely outside the BASI system and you will need ALL the L4 modules including the ET to qualify for a BASI issued ISIA CARD (at least at the present time). The statement is probably deliberately unclear on purpose as they are in the midst of negotiating the EU wide professional card and who knows what the timed technical test will end up being.... could be the current Eurotest or a modified ET, a modified ISIA test or ????
The EU commissioner in charge has categorically rejected a non EU test (the ISIA test) as a basis for the EU wide pro card. However, I hear that each EU country has an equal vote in this and lots of countries who have opposed the ET in the past continue to oppose it as the basis for the EU card technical test. So the power of the FEMPS group (French Italians and Austrians) has been diminished and they need to be more cirucumspect, BASI will not rock the boat with the French as most ISTD's make a good living working in France and why would they try to dismantle that...
I have pressed BASI for 6 months for an statement on what their/our submittal to the EU actually contains but they will not release this information nor have yet to inform their membership of even the key points of their/our submission.. A green paper has been issued by the EU but STILL this information is considered confidential and releasable to the general membership as a whole...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, your probably right about the isia test but i remember BASI trying to run one in scotland so im hoping it that represents that it is part of the system somewhere.
Like I mentioned in the eurotest thread, I really cant see all EU countries agreeing on a common test. What happens if they dont agree? Will it just continue as before? Or will the new professional qualifications directive take precedence and there will be legal chaos for those profession that dont get regulated?
Also the eu commission is dealing with femps, which represents 3 EU countries at governmental level, so why are they dealing with BASI? shouldnt they be dealing with the UK sports governing body? or the sports minister, or UKsnowsports etc etc why a sports training organisation like BASI? Are they the right people to be dealing with this?
has our government actually got any knowledge of this issue? although i doubt they would care much?
Green paper: meant to be a discussion document to stimulate debate. Surely this is the green paper in question:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2011:0367:FIN:en:PDF
This has probably been issued to the government who have asked BASI for their input re ski instructors, and other professional bodies about other jobs.
Dont know why we cant see BASIs stance? It will likely be pro-eurotest for the reason you give above, and i am not fully comfortable they will be representing the best interests of all british ski instructors, too much vested interest there, plus it isnt really their remit like I said before, it should be down to a national governing body.
Basically, if BASI support the eurotest, they accept the eurotest as a safety test, end of discussion. It doesnt represent anything else, it is an aptitude test for measuring an instructors ability to perform safely. Because that is how the EU commission see it. I know loads of ISTDs that think that is b*ll*cks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skifluff,
Many thanks for the link to the Gree Paper. It would be interesting to read BASI's reply but it is probably covered by the Official secrets Act 
Would anyone wish to comment on Item 3.2. Temporary mobility
'In 2005 a new regime was introduced to facilitate temporary provision of services. Under this
new regime, there is no obligation for the professional who wishes to provide services on a
temporary basis whilst maintaining establishment in the home Member State to undergo any
formal recognition procedures in the host Member State. Member States may only require a
prior declaration supported by a number of documents to be sent to the competent authority, if
necessary. A significant number of Member States make extensive use of this option.
There is a major issue in dealing with situations where a professional from a non-regulating
Member State moves temporarily to a Member State where the profession is regulated. In
such cases, the new regime is open only to those who can prove two years of professional
experience or provide evidence that they have followed "regulated education and training".
Some stakeholders are calling for more consumer choice which could be achieved by
widening the scope of the lighter regime. Others are afraid of abuse, such as "forum
shopping". The modernisation should strike the right balance between these legitimate
positions'.
Does this mean you can 'Temporary' move to a Member State and provide services?
Beanie 1 Any chance of a comment from BASI ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stewart woodward
That very much echo's the content of the EU link I posted earlier in the thread, prompted and my question regarding my rights to work in Europe as a Ski Instructor. The response on here appeared to indicate that it's France that makes the rules, not the EU
edit for poor editing !
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 20-11-11 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stewart woodward, temporary mobility aka the "90 days rule" is a provision that is regularly cited and used by individuals and businesses in every industry all the time. Yes, legally you can provide 90 days of services, without formal recognition of your quals if you have 2 years education etc. (I think also if you have no education but 3 years proffessional experience it counts aswell, also in right to establishment!).
You can do it, it is your right. No one does coz they just follow the standard line. Plus the french dont give a flying monkey about EU law, and you will be arrested and chucked in a french police cell, then you have to argue your case successfully to the EU commission, and it might result in the french government getting a paltry fine. Or the villagers will come for you with pitchforks.........
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skifluff,  Nice summery.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skifluff,
| Quote: |
Im choosing to read it that you get the card with ISIA test and other L4 modules completed.
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You don't, BASI can only award the ISIA card to those who complete their Level 4. If you would like clarification please call the office and speak with Dave Renouf.
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stewart woodward, I've been through (and been accepted by!) the French recognition process, although for walking/mountain biking (International Mountain Leader & Scottish Mountain Bike Leader) rather than skiing.
They do have the sort of 2-tier process implied here.
If you want to work permanently in France, you need to go through the full process of applying for a Carte Professionelle. Mine took a mere 22 months...
If you want to work temporarily, you do not need to do this, you merely need to send a letter detailing your qualifications and the work you're planning to do (along with ID, etc.) to the DDCS office in the region in which you wish to work. You need to give them plenty of notice (2 months, I think). I suspect that if your qualifications were fishy or your work plan was a bit too vague (i.e. it looked like you were planning to advertise for work once you were there) that you might get a less than positive response to this.
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stewart woodward,
With regards to the temprorary mobility rule, Dave Renouf understands it as follows:
"The understanding of this wording in this context is that so long as the host country does not have a derogation this could indeed be interpreted as someone offering services “temporarily”. The term “Temporary”, although it is not stipulated within this section of the green paper, it is refereeing to all professional qualifications whether a doctor, engineer, architect or snowsport instructor, and there are timeframes that have been inferred for each of the different professions, (i.e. for snowsports it is generally a maximum of two weeks in any one country however this is not definitive for all).
There are derogations with regard to the EU law on the freedom of movement and services in relation snowsport instructors based on the issues of public safety and can be seen in the following link;
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/qualifications/directive_in_practice/general_system_en.htm
All four nations of Germany Austria Italy and France have them in place. These in effect mean that they still have the right to impose tests if a substantial difference in standards of qualifications between the migrant’s and the host nation’s candidates are perceived and established."
If you would like to discuss the above or its implications, please call Dave and he will be happy to discuss it with you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nothing to do with thread but I do know someone with some GS skis for rent suitable for tests at very good prices.
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beanie1, ta for those links.
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