 Poster: A snowHead
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valais2, If your observations are limited to last season might overall snow cover in Europe and consequent restrictions on open runs/skier density have something to do with it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, ...good thought...not much evidence of mania where we are in CH but there were very few people out....different story when I went over to trois vallee and there, plenty of bombing around.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fatbob, Indeed. Lack of skill is a major component, and improper equipment only exacerbates that.
We have to accept, though, that there will always be a large number of skiers that lack the appropriate skill for what they are looking to achieve. ( but isn't that just a part of how we learn anything anyway.. by pushing our own envelopes....)
and indeed! Many in ski retail are numpties (esp on the high st).
| fatbob wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| fatbob, lack of skills - on equipment that let's one get more mobile, sooner in the learning curve and at higher velocities... |
Are you talking about equipment since (say) 1997/8 or more recently? As soon as skis got shapelier and shorter they've enabled people to get more mobile early. Wider longer skis don't act as enablers here (unless we're talking offpiste which I sense we're not) |
I'd say more recently -circa 04 to present, as the easily observable trend is more shape and more width. And indeed, wider skis are not enablers on piste (which is kinda the point here as they are being incorrectly sold to people who want/aspire to ski more off-piste but really spend 80%+ of their time On-piste)
| valais2 wrote: |
| fatbob, ..spot on re shorter carvers being enablers (and read the accident and 'injury-type' stats which back that up) ... and that's the worrying trend which I think might be accompanying the more enduring psychological realities...longer fatter bigger radius slower-edge-to-edge as a contributing factor to unguided missiles on-piste... |
Exactly. And inexperienced skiers lack the skills to make long radius skis turn in tighter arcs than those prescribed by the shape of the ski. So they happily let the skis do what they want to- which is rip long fast runs with little turning ( and usually in the form of smeared/skidded turns). And there in lies the wider ski issue I mentioned before.
So if we take it as read that lack of experience is a major factor, and also that high st sellers are mis-informing and erroneously equipping, then it should be clear that the mis-informed/uninformed inexperienced skiers are ever increasingly getting the wrong kit to suit their needs.
Basically, (though it's not going to happen, because people like to dream big, aspire, and let their inflated and imaginative egos get in the way) skiers that lack skill need to be appropriately equipped so as to meet their current needs and to cater to where they want to progress.
I think people should spend much more time trying to master these of "piste" skis, and this will give them the skills to tackle more terrain with greater skill and agility. Note that the best freeriders come from a racing background ( skinny waisted ski territory)
Narrow skis can also hack the pow, it just takes more skill, strength and energy.
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quadwould, There's so much stuff there it's very difficult to dissect. Of course more skills are better than less and the vast majority of people are better developing them in an on-piste environment. Of course racers generally have the best foundation for freeskiing but IMO this is not uncorrelated with quality instruction and cumulative time on snow. But I don't see many skiers stopping from speed in a snowplough so it suggests to me that if people can hockey stop on whatever skis they are on they are capable of exercising a modicum of control regardless of equipment choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not sure we have a basis for judgement here, the figures we have run out in the 2004/05 season, if aspirational kit being used by inexperienced people is a factor we see an upward trend in accidents since then - without the stats, we're guessing (hell, WITH the stats we're guessing but at least it'd be a vaguely educated guess)
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Richard_Sideways, ...here are the lastest (2009/10) figures from the USA (NSAA) - note that their explanatory section has some useful summary statements but also repeat much of the trend analysis from the 2005 report:
http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/facts-ski-snbd-safety.asp
note overall rate reported by NSAA for skier & snowboarder accidents was .80/million visits in 2004/05 reducing to .64/1m in 2009/10.
and....
OK everyone, thanks very much for contributing....I think we're done now on this thread (but carry on if you want to...)...My conclusions from this useful set of posts:
- it is indeed difficult to apprehend deep trends, and the stats aren't definitive
- there will be people skiing above their skill level largely irrespective of the equipment that they have - and most of these, though not exclusively, are likely to be young males
- young males have higher risk of injury and death (as with motorcycling, car driving etc) so some deeper behaviours here
- learning tight turns, hockey stops, etc is not 'old fashioned' as some posts here recently have suggested
- radius and width are probably more important than length
- people are indeed selling folk unsuitable models of ski in terms of their ability and genuine patterns of use
so...many thanks...speak soon...over and out....
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