mikekimber24, as you probably know, RWD Beemers and Mercs and the like are cataclysmic disasters on snow when on their normal summer tyres so, yes, chains make a vast difference but only when the road conditions are snowy enough. Most of the time it's inbetweeny - tarmac/ice/rutted old snow and chains are a hinderence then because you can only drive really slowly and hold up your own personal M25 jam. Winter tyres best - try a forum search on that
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Not all BMW are rear wheel drive.
(not to mention many of us old enough to have driven to mountain when all the cars are rear wheel drive only, wonder how we managed )
abc, you managed (as I did) because your RWD car probably didn't have ASC, ABS, DSC, DDT, BBC, ITV, NBC, OTT and trick differentials, trick auto boxes with minds of their own, generally sensors galore and big fat go-faster tyres (tires). I've got one (luckily I also have a winter-tyred 4X4) and it simply will not go anywhere on snow - and I mean literally won't get anywhere. Forwards or backwards impossible, sideways no problem. Doesn't matter what aids I switch off it still won't go anywhere. So, last two winters it has just had to sit there for a week or so waiting for the melt.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Still, not all BMW are rear wheel drive.
I have one (AWD) and it goes skiing every weekend. In fact, I specifically bought it: a car that I can go skiing safely (compare to a Toyota Camry) while still gives me good milage on daily commute.
I live in area that doesn't allow chains (eat up the road). But it will take chains if needed. (though if I live in places that needs that much traction, I would get a true 4x4 instead)
After all it is free
After all it is free
I agree with Bode Swiller, chains are only any good in fresh deep snow, on patchy snow or ice they are a liability to you and others, and often illegal because they wreck the road surface.
Also depending on your wheel/tyre size they can be difficult to get. The chain sits against the tyre sidewall and some Beemers frankly don't have any to speak of - their tyre profile is so low. I had a friend with an X5 on bling 22" wheels or something stupid like that and he had real trouble getting chains to fit it.
Winter tyres will make the difference. Or you could try those sock things which get good reports from some people, haven't tried them myself though.
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mikekimber24, from experience, chains are a pain in the backside to put on a BMW. The wheel arch clearance is small which makes it difficult to get the chains over the top of the tyre and positioned on the inner sidewall. Winter tyres are the way to go with chains as a last resort.
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sanman wrote:
Winter tyres will make the difference. Or you could try those sock things which get good reports from some people, haven't tried them myself though.
To cut a long story short - snow socks ( or Snow Sox) have been tested and they seem like a good solution but professional opinion is that they are cräp.
DB, how do modern BMW drivers manage in Austria? chains are considered essential for travelling into the mountains. If as everyone here indicates, it is not possible to put chains on the modern RWD Beamers, how do the BMW drivers in Austria and Germany manage?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Samerberg Sue, It's a mystery. I sometimes catch myself at the car park at the lift station saying to myself "you can't possibly be here "... but I am. How is it possible?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Steilhang, seriously, do you have chains for your BMW?
If it is not possible to fit them, I would imagine the GP in austria would be making money hand over fist from Beamer drivers without the "right equipment" - a real cash cow for them when they do the checks!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Samerberg Sue, Steilhang, winter tyres perhaps ? enlighten us !
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Samerberg Sue wrote:
DB, how do modern BMW drivers manage in Austria? chains are considered essential for travelling into the mountains. If as everyone here indicates, it is not possible to put chains on the modern RWD Beamers, how do the BMW drivers in Austria and Germany manage?
With winter tyres you rarely need to put chains on. People who travel to the mountains on a regular basis tend to get rid of RWD cars after a while. 2WD (i.e. RWD) BMW's and Mercs tend to be avoided in favour of 4WD BMWs or FWD/4WD Audi's. You can get by with winter tyres on a BMW but it's not ideal, especially when visiting places wth high alpine approach roads (Sölden, Obertauern etc). Some go for a low clearance solution (e.g. Rud Spider etc) but they tend to be a lot more expensive than normal chains, although easier to put on than chains they typically offer less in performance terms.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB, Agreed, I had very good winter tyres on my Volvo which if I remember correctly was rear-wheel drive. I never had to put the chains on after I switched from All-Weather Mountain and Mud ones. And when I replaced it, FWD was a priority. I still insist on FWD, I'm currently looking for a replacement for my current car and I'm not looking at any RWD. I can't afford to buy or run an AWD or an SUV of any kind.
I've seen plenty of BMW and Mercs parked up above the stadium in Sölden and Obertauern is usually bursting with Mercs and BMWs, not just 4WD ones either.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I've seen plenty of BMW and Mercs parked up above the stadium in Sölden and Obertauern is usually bursting with Mercs and BMWs, not just 4WD ones either.
A lot to do with the driver!
Knowing how to drive on slippery surface, which includes rain, snow, ice. Don't just jam on the brake or gas pedal.
On my first trip to Austria, I found my way blocked by a Merc stuck on a slight uphill. They've slide off the road just enough their rear (drive) wheel was on snow rather than dry surface. I got out to help push. But the women in the driver seat simply didn't know how to drive on snow. She kept flooring the gas pedal which simply spun the wheel before giving it a chance to get any traction. I tried the ask the man to drive while us women push but the other women didn't want to help push...
Until another car came by and the other drive jump in the driver seat. With a little helpful push, the car was free.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Samerberg Sue wrote:
Steilhang, seriously, do you have chains for your BMW?
If it is not possible to fit them, I would imagine the GP in austria would be making money hand over fist from Beamer drivers without the "right equipment" - a real cash cow for them when they do the checks!
Since we change the BMW every 12 months I don't buy them. You can usually hire them from a BMW 'Niederlassung'. In fact I rarely have any, but they are definitely available. My point was really that in spite of the fact that this is a rear wheel drive car you can still get up mountains with it!
Steilhang, I know, I just wondered why it was such a problem in the UK Maybe it's like the need to inform your insurer that you have changed your tyres each time you switch from summer to winter pnes or vice-versa
I wish I had a BMW every year with my company! Lucky so and so you!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
I know, I just wondered why it was such a problem in the UK
I don't think the problem is just with RWD drive cars in the UK. Most cars nowadays have stupidly wide low profile performance tyres which are rubbish in the snow. I managed to get my FWD Audi stuck twice in the last few winters, and that is with my expert driving skills
Now I have a set of winter tyres for our 4WD BMW and the RWD Mercedes I replaced the Audi with stays nice and cozy in the garage as soon as it snows.
I reckon a RWD car with winter tyres will still be better than a FWD or 4WD car with fat summer tyres as soon as there is any snow.
Now the next question: what winter tyres can I put on my motorbike?
I wish I had a BMW every year with my company! Lucky so and so you!
the wife works there, not me! Sounds good until you've been through the car return inspection routine a few times, then it sudenly doesn't seem so good
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
UK cars specification is much more aboutheir wheels, on the continent that money is often spent on a better interior with smaller wheels. So when it does snow UK spec cars gave problems.
My wife had a 4x4 last winter and was ok for most the snow , but still managed to get it stuck in the end, that had 20 inch rims, but so did the range rover that pulled me out.
We have a spare puck up at work which is ready for me the moment the snow starts .
After all it is free
After all it is free
Chains fit fine on mine, I've used them a couple of times. Winter tyres would be better, but chains work. If you are fortunate enough to own something more sporty then chains would be tricky, I think for the very low profile tyres on wide rims there is unlikely to be enough clearance and BMW advise against fitting them. Best thing would be to check the user manual for your car and wheels.
I see plenty of BMWs driven by residents of Austria and Switzerland, there is simply no truth in the statement that people who live in the mountains don't drive rwd cars. I've driven mine to the alps a few times and never had any issues at all even on summer tyres (but next time I really will get around to fitting winter tyres, they really do make big difference).
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RWD - Stick a couple of bags of sand in the boot to weigh the driving wheels down. Easy....
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I run X5 with 17" instead of 19" wheels in winter as per BMW advice on max wheel size for chains, Continental winter tyres (excellent) chains still in packet and better MPG.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Most RWD cars here have big fat summer tyres and don't work with snow. No doubt a signif proportion of the BMW and Merc saloons on the Continent are not the RWD versions we have here but the AWD versions not sold here, but I'd bet the main difference in snowy regions is that they're shod with winter tyres. The difference made by winter tyres compared to summer really is like chalk and cheese. I'm sure FWD with winter tyres is still better but really few problems with RWD as long as with winter tyres. Never tried an AWD BMW with summers so can't comment but I'd bet a RWD with winters would be better. Haven't tried chains with a BMW but if you can find the right ones to fit, and stick to the rules, can't see a problem.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
I'd bet the main difference in snowy regions is that they're shod with winter tyres
Absolutely. I'd sooner have a RWD with winter tyres than an AWD without.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I've got a (RDW) Merc - undriveable with summer tyres + Spikes Spyders 2yrs ago (no steering) - fine with winter tyres and Spikes Spyders sat in the boot last winter. However our best winter car is a 9yr old Yaris with no stupid electronics and nice narrow wheels.
Winter tyres will make the difference. Or you could try those sock things which get good reports from some people, haven't tried them myself though.
To cut a long story short - snow socks ( or Snow Sox) have been tested and they seem like a good solution but professional opinion is that they are cräp.
sanman The professional opinion of a half wit might be that they are crap but the TUV tests indicated otherwise.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It wasn't me that said they were crap it was DB. I haven't used them, so can't comment from experience, which is something I try to confine myself to!
Chains I have used, in fact I used them in the UK last winter, and I doubt I would have got any more startled looks from passers-by if I had been in a spaceship.
It wasn't me that said they were crap it was DB. I haven't used them, so can't comment from experience, which is something I try to confine myself to!
Chains I have used, in fact I used them in the UK last winter, and I doubt I would have got any more startled looks from passers-by if I had been in a spaceship.
I appreciate that you didn't say they were crap and didn't mean to imply that you did so sorry if that's the way it appeared (and to be fair to DB neither did he but instead attributed the "crap" comment to some un-named "professional" source.
I've used both and it's a bit horses for courses. In serious snow, I would opt for chains but in icy / glazed snow, the snow socks perform very well (as indeed confirmed in the TUV tests).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
In serious snow, I would opt for chains but in icy / glazed snow, the snow socks perform very well (as indeed confirmed in the TUV tests).
the snow socks you put on quickly the moment there's any hint of trouble are better than the chains which are such a pain they stay in the boot till you skid off the road into a snowdrift.
A couple of years ago I drove up a very, very, snowy road, with chains on, on top of my snow tyres, behind a car with autosox - I only realised when he turned left and I caught sight of his wheels. He seemed to be going well. They do look as though they'd wear out quickly, but chains can often break too - especially the cheap and nasty supermarket ones, and cause no end of trouble thrashing about.
I appreciate that you didn't say they were crap and didn't mean to imply that you did so sorry if that's the way it appeared (and to be fair to DB neither did he but instead attributed the "crap" comment to some un-named "professional" source.
I've used both and it's a bit horses for courses. In serious snow, I would opt for chains but in icy / glazed snow, the snow socks perform very well (as indeed confirmed in the TUV tests).
The ÖAMTC and ADAC (Austrian and German AA equivalent) tested the Snow Sox and said they gave a similar performance to a winter tyre on snow, although braking distances were longer if I remember correctly. Compared to a proper snow chain their performance on ice was pretty poor and the snow sox didn't last very long. Probably OK for short journeys but seeing as virtually all Austrian cars have winter tyres they seems a bit pointless over here.
The Michelin Easy Grip performed better that the snow sox type tyre socks. Snow chains came out best in the tests though.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sorry to resurrect an old thread... but.
I used to have a BMW 540 (that's 4.4ltr 285bhp all fed to the fat 18" rear wheels). The low wheel arches meant that traditional snowchains couldn't be used. I asked BMW what snowchains they recommended, and they recommended swapping to winter tyres between November and April!
After searching the Interweb, I bought a pair of Spikes-Spiders. I put the wheel "hub" on in the UK and then drove through the night down to La Plagne (2 years running). When we reached the bottom of the snow&ice road up to the chalet, I put on the spiders and drove straight up. The only issue was avoiding the people that were skiing down the road in the opposite direction (and the nice lady that stopped me to tell me that "surely the chains should be on the front wheels?").
The advantage of the spikes system is that I have now adjusted them to fit our Honda Accord and managed to drive last winter in the UK over that weekend when it was only 4x4 drivers that could get around!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
The ÖAMTC and ADAC (Austrian and German AA equivalent) tested the Snow Sox and said they gave a similar performance to a winter tyre on snow, although braking distances were longer if I remember correctly. Compared to a proper snow chain their performance on ice was pretty poor and the snow sox didn't last very long. Probably OK for short journeys but seeing as virtually all Austrian cars have winter tyres they seems a bit pointless over here.
Our autosocks have lasted the 5 years we have had our car, done some serious mileage on snow, and on sheet ice they blast winter tyres into the ground and beat them fair and square on other icy surfaces. One year we had to fit them at Foix, 50 miles from the apartment in Soldeu.
The big advantage of front wheel drive is that one set of chains/socks on the front does both steering and drive.
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