 Poster: A snowHead
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The big market for Chinese skiers at the moment is Japan. |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The smart money skis in Japan not China. The rich and influential that I've dealt with wouldn't be seen dead skiing in Yubali. |
You're in Japan. Of course those who ski in Japan will have you believe that.
More over, those who choose to ski in Japan has to justify their decision. The best justification is to trash all the other destination for real and false reasons.
Just look at snowhead, those who choose to ski in the Alps "won't be seen dead" skiing in Scotland. Snobory is universal and shows up in all level and all discipline.
There's quite a good reason for Chinese skier from the south, especially from the Hong Kong and Shanghai, to ski in Japan instead of northern China. It's not much different than skiers from London prefer to ski in the Alps than in Scotland. Because it's actually easier for a lot of southern UK skier to get to the mountain in the Alps than to mountains in Scotland!
Same, from Hong Kong, it takes just as long to get to Yubali as to Japan! But they'll have you believe they CHOOSE you for statuts reason. (and it boost their own ego too).
For the OP teaching in Japan, he'll be just another of MANY foreigne instructors. Teaching in China, he'll likely be one of only a handful. Exposure is vastly different.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jimmer wrote: |
| That's true, but the ski resorts of the US (outside maybe Aspen/Vail/Deer Valley) are not somewhere I'd like to build a career, even management there are pretty poorly paid and ill treated. |
I've worked outside of the resorts you mentioned and the conditions you described are not what I've seen.
| Quote: |
| What I meant by there being little career development is that I feel like I can see a ceiling coming already (started instructing in 07), if I stay where I am (Hirafu and Portillo), sure I will gradually earn more as I build a larger group of clients, but there's little (if any) more to come in the way of pay rises. Obviously there are options, but a lot of instructors get stuck just working for the same school for the same mediocre money. |
There are options in Hirafu at least.
I worked for NBS (your current employer) for two seasons. I saw their business model, saw that it didn't benefit me, and did something about it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The big market for Chinese skiers at the moment is Japan. |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The smart money skis in Japan not China. The rich and influential that I've dealt with wouldn't be seen dead skiing in Yubali. |
You're in Japan. Of course those who ski in Japan will have you believe that.
More over, those who choose to ski in Japan has to justify their decision. The best justification is to trash all the other destination for real and false reasons.
Just look at snowhead, those who choose to ski in the Alps "won't be seen dead" skiing in Scotland. Snobory is universal and shows up in all level and all discipline.
There's quite a good reason for Chinese skier from the south, especially from the Hong Kong and Shanghai, to ski in Japan instead of northern China. It's not much different than skiers from London prefer to ski in the Alps than in Scotland. Because it's actually easier for a lot of southern UK skier to get to the mountain in the Alps than to mountains in Scotland!
Same, from Hong Kong, it takes just as long to get to Yubali as to Japan! But they'll have you believe they CHOOSE you for statuts reason. (and it boost their own ego too).
For the OP teaching in Japan, he'll be just another of MANY foreigne instructors. Teaching in China, he'll likely be one of only a handful. Exposure is vastly different. |
Respectfully you're way off.
Chinese companies have invested in Japanese ski resorts.
Individual Chinese customers (from Hong Kong and the mainland) have invested in property.
The Hokkaido product and the Yubali product are incomparable.
This has followed the action of many Australian companies and individuals who have foregone the Australian ski areas for the far superior Hokkaido product.
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MikePow, of course there are options, I just don't think many of them are better, to be legal and start your own school is a logistical nightmare, and I don't really fancy working illegally (I assume you are on a tourist visa, correct me if I'm wrong). I love it there, but eventually I'm going to move back to Europe.
Where did you work in the States? By poorly treated I mean healthcare benefits are poor, workers comp is getting cracked down on more and more (for example Vail resorts no longer has insurance, so will try anything to not pay wc), and you are generally treated as just a number. The hourly rates for instructors there are ridiculous, even as a full cert in most places I'd be on less than $20 an hour. This is all academic anyway, as it's very hard to get a visa now.
I don't mean to sound overly negative, I am going to stay in the industry, I just feel a lot of companies, particularly in NZ and the US, treat their staff badly, making it hard to make a career there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
This has followed the action of many Australian companies and individuals who have foregone the Australian ski areas for the far superior Hokkaido product.
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What the australian model is the growth of oversea skiing, IN ADDITION to skiing domestically. The same will be true for China.
I live in an area of "inferior" skiing. I fly out to the Rockies once or twice a season. But doesn't come at the expense of local skiing. I simply end up skiing more now that I have the time and funds. I'm by no means a unique case. Of all the people who got on a plane to ski somewhere far away, they also ski equally in their local hill in between their away trips. But if you're an instructor in the Rockies who ask me where I 'normally ski', I might say I "don't ski locally any more". Only because I don't want to give a long list of local hills no one know about. (and if I do give an answer, I got blank looks! So why bother?)
As for Chinese buying property in Japan, that's just them being Chinese! Did you know they've also accounted for a growing percentage of property buyers in New York the last 2 years?
The future of Chinese skiing industry aside, my point being, if OP is Japanese or are already in Japan, he can start working with the Chinese. But to follow your recomendation and go to Japan as a start, he'll have to deal with learning the Japanese way AND learning to deal with Chinese. I just don't see why you think it's an advantage that he should do it the hard way.
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Hi again,
Thanks once more for your input - the perspectives on offer to me here are far, far more valuable than those that I've managed to find elsewhere, including attempts to contact each company's HR team. Does HR stand for 'Hard to Reach'? I might be young and naive, but I'd have thought that once I'd been offered a job with one part of a company, a 10minute chat with the overall HR department about possible career paths would be a fair request. Also sorry for not replying more promptly - I've been working long hours this week.
I'm still utterly torn between each position. My head says that retraining as a lawyer or similar would give me the most ski time and the most time to myself, but I would like to pursue a career in the industry at the moment. Banking and accounts in the city just don't get me going as much as say investigating new resorts with the intention to delivering a Canadian product to Chinese customers, or booking Chinese clients into high end heli-skiing tours in the States.
I very much like the sounds of abc's idea:
| Quote: |
| Reading your posts between the lines (I maybe way off base). I feel you should re-think what your "career path" should look like. Instead of a job in a big company and steady promotion, you might do better to focus on making yourself extremely valuable in area of relatively little competition! |
I'd obviously love to make myself the go-to guy with regards to China and the entertainment/tourism/ski industry, but I'm wondering how realistic this is? As I said, I spent the summer making applications on the back of an MA in Chinese, which I'd have hoped would prove a useful qualification, and the response was that it wasn't enough to get me into any jobs. While I'd like to think that 'coal-face' experience with Chinese clients and even better language skills would make me more employable, I'm not convinced it will. The 'big company, steady promotion' path is at least safe, and as long as I don't screw up at some stage should give me the closest you'll get to a job for life nowadays. That stability and scope for progression is attractive. I've spent a long time bouncing around between positions to the point where in interviews over the summer I've been repeatedly asked the question 'how do we know you're not going to quit?' and I've been turned down for a position for 'not being corporate enough'. I don't want to end up unemployable by virtue of having a CV with no structure to it.
Mike - could you elaborate on this a little:
| Quote: |
| If you've got anything about you, the transition from servicing these customers as an instructor to servicing these customers at a resort managerial level will become evident. |
Managing a ski resort sounds like a wonderful job - wide ranging, varied and requiring a pretty dynamic personality. Do you know anyone who's managed to pull off that transition? Was it just a case of nosing around to see what was available whilst in resort?
In relation to Mike and Monium's points that the money with Chinese ski-tourists lies outside of China - I completely agree. However, I really think that I need a season in China first. I need to bump up my language skills, and the best way I can think of to do that is with the 100+ customer facing hours per week that the instructor job I've got lined up will give. Unfortunately I'll have to do 'entertainments' in the evening, which really isn't up my street, but it's something I'm prepared to accept to build up my skill-set, and seeing as I've got CELTA qualifications they've offered me some hours teaching English and French to the Chinese staff, which should help. Once I've got some hours teaching Chinese clients under my belt and I feel comfortable with what they're after, I'd definitely be looking to take my skills abroad. There's several options then; perhaps as an exclusive guide on the snowsports side, perhaps offering a package on the TO side. I'm also not comfortable learning Japanese right now. One day maybe, but I've got enough Asian languages to master at the moment!
Could you elaborate on Chinese investment in Japanese resorts? I'd expected that the Chinese wouldn't be so keen on heading to Japan due to the hostility between the two countries.
Horizon - excellent question:
| Quote: |
| Can you quantify that passion? I.e. if you faced the choice, would you prefer working in the mountains for X, in the tourism industry in Shanghai for 3X but with no time off for skiing, or in London (or, better, Geneva) with 5 weeks holiday and 2X salary? |
I think London/Geneva comes last in that example, because I'm not sure how I could get there.
Second would be a variation on Shanghai. Working in the back office, creating new products and marketing them sounds great to me, although I'd want a couple of weeks off per year and some hands on work traveling out to resorts, inspecting products, talking with suppliers - all of which I feel is realistic. I love getting hands on work done.
Right now, I want to work in the mountains, but I want a path that could eventually lead me back to the city with some great experience and a chance to convert to your Shanghai example.
Frogslegs - your story is exactly the career progression that I'm thinking about. Would it be possible to arrange a time convenient to you for me to give you a call and chat in a bit more detail about what I'm trying to do? You talked a lot about progression via the RM route, but you didn't say much about what you'd think about my potential season in China as the sales and marketing director of a large TO. I'm aware of TUI's grad schemes, but I wasn't successful last time, which is why I'm looking at other routes. One of the reasons I'm keen on a Chinese season is that I share your valuation of languages and I need more. I can offer fluent French and a decent level of German, but so do a lot of people, so I'd be happier boosting my Chinese in terms of future skills.
Sorry that's a bit fractured, I'm in a rush to get out and just wanted to reply to as many points as possible. I'm glad that I've discovered that RM isn't a dead-end job, so I guess I'd just like to find whether the big travel companies would prefer to see my CV with Chinese experience at a low level, or with some management experience and my current level of Chinese. I'll also send out some PMs on some specific questions shortly. Thanks once more for your help!
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You obviously got a good head on your shoulder. My take, whichever path you take, you'll reach a similar end goal of happy balance between stable finance and fun time in the mountain. The difference might be how much money and how much time in the mountain, i.e. where the balance point ends up. But you will not be in a dead end path forever.
Of your 3 options, this one can wait.
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My head says that retraining as a lawyer or similar would give me the most ski time and the most time to myself,
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You can still do that AFTER your season in China.
As for taking up a RM position vs. going to China. I suspect both will work out, with result you expect.
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I'd expected that the Chinese wouldn't be so keen on heading to Japan due to the hostility between the two countries.
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The media play it up a lot more than there really is. Chinese hates the Japanese militarism, but absolutely LOVE everything else Japanese.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| MikePow, of course there are options, I just don't think many of them are better, to be legal and start your own school is a logistical nightmare, and I don't really fancy working illegally (I assume you are on a tourist visa, correct me if I'm wrong). I love it there, but eventually I'm going to move back to Europe. |
Please don't assume that because I don't work for a ski school as you do that I'm instructing illegally on Hokkaido.
Many have done and many do, however I currently have and always have had a Skilled Labour Visa to instruct in Japan.
I don't run my own ski school in Hirafu, but do run my own schedule and I earn more than 5,000 yen per hour.
I would be very surprised if there are many ski instructors legally earning more than me in the area.
The opportunities are there.
| Quote: |
Where did you work in the States? By poorly treated I mean healthcare benefits are poor, workers comp is getting cracked down on more and more (for example Vail resorts no longer has insurance, so will try anything to not pay wc), and you are generally treated as just a number. The hourly rates for instructors there are ridiculous, even as a full cert in most places I'd be on less than $20 an hour. This is all academic anyway, as it's very hard to get a visa now.
I don't mean to sound overly negative, I am going to stay in the industry, I just feel a lot of companies, particularly in NZ and the US, treat their staff badly, making it hard to make a career there. |
What you write about the instructor life is consistent with what I've seen. I was talking about the managerial level at Vail Inc.; Park City, Deer Valley & The Canyons, Utah; and Whitefish Mountain Resort, Montana.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 26-09-11 15:24; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
| Mike - could you elaborate on this a little: |
| Quote: |
| If you've got anything about you, the transition from servicing these customers as an instructor to servicing these customers at a resort managerial level will become evident. |
You already did in your post.
| jiagedaping wrote: |
| I might be young and naive, but I'd have thought that once I'd been offered a job with one part of a company, a 10minute chat with the overall HR department about possible career paths would be a fair request. |
The good companies out there will facilitate this, for example Club Med.
Have you sent an application to them to work at Yubali? If not, I would. Then you might find that this statement of yours will pan out
| jiagedaping wrote: |
| While I'd like to think that 'coal-face' experience with Chinese clients and even better language skills would make me more employable, I'm not convinced it will. |
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
| Managing a ski resort sounds like a wonderful job - wide ranging, varied and requiring a pretty dynamic personality. Do you know anyone who's managed to pull off that transition? Was it just a case of nosing around to see what was available whilst in resort? |
I know of a number who've done it in the US and Japan. Worked at lower level positions within the organisation. Promoted to supervisor level. Promoted to managerial level. Promoted to Director level - Sales, Marketing, Operations, Food & Beverage.
And the following thoughts you posted would be the way to go I feel
| jiagedaping wrote: |
| However, I really think that I need a season in China first. I need to bump up my language skills, and the best way I can think of to do that is with the 100+ customer facing hours per week that the instructor job I've got lined up will give. Unfortunately I'll have to do 'entertainments' in the evening, which really isn't up my street, but it's something I'm prepared to accept to build up my skill-set, and seeing as I've got CELTA qualifications they've offered me some hours teaching English and French to the Chinese staff, which should help. Once I've got some hours teaching Chinese clients under my belt and I feel comfortable with what they're after, I'd definitely be looking to take my skills abroad. There's several options then; perhaps as an exclusive guide on the snowsports side, perhaps offering a package on the TO side. |
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
| Could you elaborate on Chinese investment in Japanese resorts? I'd expected that the Chinese wouldn't be so keen on heading to Japan due to the hostility between the two countries. |
Hanazono in the Niseko Resort Area of Hokkaido is owned by Hong Kong based company Pacific Century Premium Developments Limited
http://pcpd.com/html/eng/index.php
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| Quote: |
Please don't assume that because I don't work for a ski school as you do that I'm instructing illegally on Hokkaido.
Many have done and many do, however I currently have and always have had a Skilled Labour Visa to instruct in Japan.
I don't run my own ski school in Hirafu, but do run my own schedule and I earn more than 5,000 yen per hour.
I would be very surprised if there are many ski instructors legally earning more than me in the area.
The opportunities are there.
What you write about the instructor life is consistent with what I've seen. I was talking about the managerial level at Vail Inc.; Park City, Deer Valley & The Canyons, Utah; and Whitefish Mountain Resort, Montana.
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Sorry, I see so many people instructing illegally I assumed you did too. How do you get your visa without a school? 5000 yen p/h is certainly good, I only get that for requests.
Maybe some managers get treated well, but the majority I have known get treated the same, if not worse than instructors, most supervisors I know earn less than instructors.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| Quote: |
Please don't assume that because I don't work for a ski school as you do that I'm instructing illegally on Hokkaido.
Many have done and many do, however I currently have and always have had a Skilled Labour Visa to instruct in Japan.
I don't run my own ski school in Hirafu, but do run my own schedule and I earn more than 5,000 yen per hour.
I would be very surprised if there are many ski instructors legally earning more than me in the area.
The opportunities are there.
What you write about the instructor life is consistent with what I've seen. I was talking about the managerial level at Vail Inc.; Park City, Deer Valley & The Canyons, Utah; and Whitefish Mountain Resort, Montana.
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Sorry, I see so many people instructing illegally I assumed you did too. How do you get your visa without a school? 5000 yen p/h is certainly good, I only get that for requests.
Maybe some managers get treated well, but the majority I have known get treated the same, if not worse than instructors, most supervisors I know earn less than instructors. |
Easily done. No problem.
Fair play if you're getting 5000 yen an hour with NBS. Certainly paying more than they used to.
The how is for a conversation over a beer sometime.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Does any resort in Europe have a non-local as a resort manager? Can't see it happening myself unless you invest. It's a big jump from teaching some kids on the slopes for a few hours a day to being responsible for an entire resort.
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russ_e, I don't know whether this is still the case, but the ESF director in La Rosiere was from Leeds.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Easily done. No problem.
Fair play if you're getting 5000 yen an hour with NBS. Certainly paying more than they used to.
The how is for a conversation over a beer sometime.
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NBS really aren't too bad these days, since all the US resorts stopped giving visas a bunch of people have been coming back year after year, so we have a good crew, and the new boss is really into making it work well.
See you in Hirafu in a few months! Darts league this year?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Heard it's a better set-up from when I was involved ( 06/07, 07/08 ).
What's the basic hourly wage for this coming season if you don't mind me asking? The range will work.
Not a darter myself. But will be there for the crack.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 28-09-11 14:40; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've actually not been told my rate for this year, last year it was a little under 3000 so that'll probably be the same, I guess the uncertified new guys would start on a bit over 1500.
I only got into the darts last year (after abstaining for 2), but am very keen for the new season!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Avoriaz tourist office director is from Brittany.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jimmer wrote: |
I've actually not been told my rate for this year, last year it was a little under 3000 so that'll probably be the same, I guess the uncertified new guys would start on a bit over 1500.
I only got into the darts last year (after abstaining for 2), but am very keen for the new season! |
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
Yeah a good night out.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks once more for the great advice that's been offered on here, as well as through a couple of PMs and phone calls. I've now made a decision, and I've opted for the RM position. The point of view that swung things finally for me was that my level of Chinese is probably already sufficient to attract interest, but what I'm lacking is solid work experience in the tourism industry. My Chinese isn't going anywhere; it'll still be at roughly the same level in a few years time, by which stage I'll hopefully have gained the background in ops, HR, marketing or whatever specialism I decide on to put it to good use.
I was also given a couple of case studies of where people starting at RM have progressed to and over what time period and the paths sounded fantastic - really varied, good fun and all while working in a wonderful environment. Finally, the company that I've secured a job through is big enough to offer ways to make my Chinese useful in the near future, so the experience that I would have gained as an instructor I might end up gaining in 6 months time anyway.
I can't wait for November to come around - let's hope the snow is better than last time!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jiagedaping, your username, which tones? -/v\
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good luck man!
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All the best
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| slikedges wrote: |
| jiagedaping, your username, which tones? -/v\ |
贾格大苹
Normally you'd want an 尔 in the middle, like Mick, but Chinese names tend not to go past 4 characters so I wanted to stick to that. Tones are 3, 2, (3), 4, 2. It's always hard putting English names into Chinese, but I wanted something a bit jazzy. Most of my friends say it works.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Good luck - have a great time - I'm sure you'll do well!
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Hi jiagedaping,
I know a few people who work in the tourism industry for TOs in the UK, and I used to work as a rep myself. Based on this I would say if you were looking for a career with a TO then a season or 2 as a rep (or resort manager) is essential experience. There is no automatic career progression as such, and you will need to bring some other skills too - in addition to languages you will need to show some commercial skill when dealing with hotels and really keep on top of the business side for example. However, if you have the basics and a couple of seasons, especially if you were an area manager then you would be at the front of the queue for a permanent role. Once you get your foot in the door you will then need to progress your business skills, this could mean focusing on marketing, or finance or operations etc.
While you are doing winter seasons you need to also consider what to do in the summer - you could keep repping on a summer program or maybe you could get temporary office work - the later is certainly less interesting but might help you further down the line so long as you get the right kind of role.
Once you work in an office job for a TO you will ski no more than any keen punter (in fact you might ski less than most punters because the winter is you busiest time of year). There might be perks such as the "informational" - a freebie trip where you get to learn about your won products. Although these are good fun you won't do that much skiing.
My advice, which is worth what you pay for it, is to go out there, do a season as a rep and then think about it... you may love it, you may hate it, either way I think you will have a much clearer picture in 6 months time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jiagedaping, thanks, but still confused  Presumably your surname is the same as the exalted one's but big apple?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jiagedaping, Mike Pow, was way off my own experience of exactly the same time in one place. There is no serious money in winter sports unless you are a (truly) exceptional skier. Unfortunately.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Nickski wrote: |
| jiagedaping, Mike Pow, was way off my own experience of exactly the same time in one place. There is no serious money in winter sports unless you are a (truly) exceptional skier. Unfortunately. |
Brilliant. Another assumption on my current situation.
Let's just say that instructing Australian, American and Chinese customers on Hokkaido and only having to pay 6% income tax enables me to work just 3 months a year.
I'm not a truly exceptional skier but I'm a good instructor.
In my experience, there is money in the winter sports industry.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Let's just say that instructing Australian, American and Chinese customers on Hokkaido and only having to pay 6% income tax enables me to work just 3 months a year.
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Christ I want me some of that!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I do love the lack of tax in Japan! I can attest to there being (some) money in the ski industry too, I work a bit harder than Mike, but still spend about half the year on holiday.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jimmer, some of the Japanese regard themselves as the most successful communist country in the world. Their highest rate of tax is 90%.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Brilliant. Another assumption on my current situation.
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And you assumed I was talking about Japan ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Nickski wrote: |
| Quote: |
Brilliant. Another assumption on my current situation.
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And you assumed I was talking about Japan ? |
My apologies.
Perhaps you could have written
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| jiagedaping, Mike Pow's experience in Japan is very different from my own experience of exactly the same time in one place, x seasons at resort y (a guess as you didn't clarify). There is no serious money in winter sports in resort y unless you are a (truly) exceptional skier. Unfortunately. |
and avoided the ambiguity.
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jiagedaping, unimaginable diversity of people and thought + both traditional and imposed codes of behaviour perceived to have lost relevance = unpredictable place
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Can only speak for Hokkaido, but the movers and shakers in Hong Kong and mainland China come to ski on Hokkaido. Not Yubali, China. That is where the Chinese ski market is at the moment. These are the early adopters that will grow the sport in China IMHO. They will expect and demand (if you've ever worked with Hong Kong Chinese you'll know what I mean) that the domestic Chinese product improve dramatically and quickly.
Working for a multi-national company like Club Med in Sahoro or Hanazono, in the Niseko Resort Area (owned by a Hong Kong company) will expose the OP to the right Chinese guests.
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Seems if you are willing to commit 5-10 years to this project, then it will pay off big time. Only hang around 1 or 2yrs out there and you won't reap the rewards. It depends on how much you want it and if you can survive the very different lifestyle out there. Fluency in the lingo will clearly help a rapid intergration.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| jiagedaping, unimaginable diversity of people and thought + both traditional and imposed codes of behaviour perceived to have lost relevance = unpredictable place |
Add that to a 小平/小瓶 homonym and you've got a great mix 
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FAQ
Best of luck with the career plan, hope it takes off big time, please do let us know how it works out! 
