BASI L1 questions...

A snowHead

Basic premise is that I am now 44 and thinking about what to do if/when I retire at 55...

One thought is to get BASI 1 and maybe 2 ~~and earn some 'pocket' money and~~ completely immerse myself in living the instructor dream 24x7, forgiving my family, friends, snowheads in order to persue instructor like godness when I retire.....

My first question was all around age, would I be able to even do some occasional teaching in the UK at 55, or would potential places like XScape want younger instructors? Similarly could I pick up occasional work in Europe at that age?

Secondly was around where to the L1 BASI course, is there any 'benefit' to doing it in Hintertux vs Castleford? I assume a pass is a pass no matter where it is taken? I reckon Cass is going to be cheaper and more convenient.

Thirdly around kit, I currently only have all mountain skis, 98mm and 112mm, I assume I'd need something thinner for taking BASI 1 in a fridge?

Anyone else of a similiar or older age done the course??

Any other thoughts welcome.

A snowHead

kitenski, I would say plenty of work UK wide for those who have retired from other things, remember dry slopes too Smile

and those coming to skiing later in life sometimes prefer someone closer to their own age as an instructor, what is more important than age is your attitude.

Level one in a fridge is less cost and easier to schedule into the rest of your life than Tux etc.

I would be tempted to look at manchester or tamworth but thats just as im not so keen on Cass but thats just my personal feelings and in reality the venue has little to do with the outcome.

I would suggest that you just do the course on hire skis if you only have Fat's as you will make it difficult for yourself otherwise. If you want a loan pair let me know when you are planning doing the course I may be able to sort you with something.

I did the course at 40 so not quite as old but close enough, was a good mix of youngsters to those planning retirement and those leaving the services on a phased retraining.

Make sure you know the central theme and are able to demo each stage, You may want to get a L3+ to look at your skiing and give you some pointers in the right direction if you have done no other work towards the course. Remember that all BASI courses are a mixture of training and assesment so even if you do not pass first time the week is great value even as a training and development step. Having said that the level is attainable (Or they were looking the other way the day I passed Smile

)

Go for it would be my advice, but watch out BASI gets under your skin. You will get the new manual with the course but if you dont mind having two its worth getting one to look at before you go as it will give you a clearer understanding of BASI, the central theme and how you are assessed. Also the precourse info booklet from the website is a great source of info.

Best of luck

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Having seen you ski, and having a BASI2.5 (ie well on the ISIA path) and a BASI 1 in the family I would say that your skiing is easily good enough (that said I havn't seen you snowplough).

He did it 1 and 2 at Hintertux, she did 1 at Hemel.

I'd say save your cash and do 1 indoors.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

My daughter is thinking about BAS1, probably at Hintertux, next summer as soon as she's 16. I'm vaguely thinking about doing it too, I'll be 54 Shocked

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

kitenski, Inside Out run a 1 day 'Instructor Assessment' course at Hemel, http://www.insideoutskiing.com/instructor.html.

I did it a month or so ago. The plan is to assess your skiing to see if you are of the required standard and to do a quick whistestop tour of the course content. They get a BASI trainer in to give advice and to let you know whether you are good enough.

On my course the trainer was Stuart Bernard, who was there for the whole day as Scott was carrying an ankle injury.

My overall impression was that BASI 1 is about two things, 1. Learning to teach the central theme to beginners and early intermediates, and being good enough to be able to demonstrate the central theme consistently and accurately, and 2. Becoming a good enough skier to look like a ski instructor in the kind of terrain potential clients will see you skiing, ie green/blue runs.

I enjoyed the day greatly, and plan to sign up for a L1 course at Hemel in the Autumn.

It's a good way of getting a flavour of the course if your not sure whether BASI 1 is for you.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Spud9, cheers I was trying to get onto that same course you did but couldn't make it, hopefully will make the next one!!

After all it is free

kitenski, been looking at the diary and hoping that we can run another Pre-BASI course on either 6th or 13th of September. Will confirm this once we know about Trainer availability.

cheers rob@rar, any fellow snowheads fancy it to encourage rob to run it Smile

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

kitenski,

I'm in a similar position to you re the age and retirement - I took my Level 1 last June at Castleford, then travelled down to do my shadowing.

I'm planning on getting the next 35 hours in over the summer and doing my level 2 next year, i'm 41 now and looking to do some instructing when i retire. I learnt quite a bit during the course but you need to keep yourself in the loop and teach part time afterwards as delivering sessions keeps you focused.

If theres anything you want to know about the course let me know and i'll try and remember Smile

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

kitenski,

Xscape Catleford and other snowdomes employ instuctors of all ages, late 40's / mid 50's certainly not unusual, so no worries on that front.

The central theme will be taught to you on the course, you do not need to know it beforehand (I had never heard of it), although I guess it won't hurt to do some reading if you know of someone with a Alpine manual.

As for required standard, if you can ski parallel confidently,comfortably and in control on red slopes, and if you can leave a clean arc on the outside ski when carving on gentle blues you'll be fine. And if not you have 5 days of expert tuition to look get you there.

As for location, for the L1 there's really no point in travelling especially if you are within daily commute of a snowdome.

Wayne, having seen some very poor instructors I am confident I can as well if not better. Since when was the ability to do something full time a measure of ability?

next you will be saying supply teachers, contractors etc cant do their job....

You know it makes sense.

Wayne, Im not entirely sure why you think that someone performing a role after 40 is any less professional than someone doing it at a younger age?

If you have the skills required to pass level 1 and do the shadowing then you are a level one instructor, it does not matter what your age is for that. What matters is your skill level not how desperate for the coin at the end of the week.

I dont think your clients care what the finincial motivationof the instructor is. If my level 4 trainer is paid with bananas I dont care! what I want is a dedicated professional who has aquired the teachinga nd demonstration skills.

Maybe im a hopless case but I had thought that it took dedication and commitment to get through the BASI system?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Wayne, you open up a hornets nest here. We could have a huge snowheads debate on what constitutes good teaching. IMHO for joe average beginner wanting to learn skiing in a UK dome or dry slope then its about who can get the basics across and identify and correct faults. Is there any evidence of the effectiveness of different teaching systems, hours skied, age of instructor etc etc ??

A snowHead

sunnbuel, I think you could have all the technical skills in the book at your disposal, but if you can't teach, inspire trust, convey what you know to someone else you will never be a fully effective teacher, coach instructor etc. I think there was a lot of truth to that advertising campaign for school teachers that said 'those that can teach, teach!'. Both technical ability/knowledge of the subject and the ability to convey that in a good manner are essential to become a good teacher I think.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Wayne, If your viewpoint is the right one (and it seems remarkably similar to arguments thrown out elsewhere that only ET holders and ISTDs are capable of delivering good quality lessons) then you're effectively turning your back on teaching thousands of newcomers their first lessons in the UK or on school trips. The ski instruction industry as far as I can tell only really works because of the many individuals at the bottom of th ladder teaching essentially as a hobby for the love of the sport or young adults some of whom will make a career out of it but many more move on to outside opportunities.

If you reach the standard to be accredited are you any less professional than someone at the same standard who happens to have been dependent on it for a living? I've seen a view from some instructors that the dabblers are the ones who stop the pros making a decent living. This totally ignores the fact that ski lessons are probably already priced at the top of what the market will bear for a leisure activity.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Wayne, I honestly don't get your point, if I have an instructor, I don't know or care how he or she is paid, wether it is a full time employee or someone wanting to earn some pocket money.

I do care that they are a good teacher and I have an enjoyable lesson.

So what is your point, if it's not about age, skiing ability or teaching ability?

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Wayne,

After all it is free

I passed my BASI level one on Sheffield dry slope and I'm sure that was hugely cheaper than any indoor slope as it only lasted two days plus half a day of assesment after I'd amassed my required number of hours shadowing, that said they only run the course when they want instructors so you're probably best calling them. Your standard of skiing really doesn't have to be anything special. If you can do something that resembles a carve on Dendex you'll be fine

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Wayne, you courting controversy again Wink

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Hang on a minute. There is nothing wrong with the BASI system and there is nothing wrong with a trainer saying that someone is good enough to get their BASI L1, 2, 3 or 4, or whatever they are calling it at the time. And, if a trainer says you are OK to teach skiing that’s great, off you go.

BUT

I didn’t think I’d have to point this out but obviously as I do so....my point was against the mindset that say’s hey I think I’ll become a ski instructor when I retire, so I can earn some pocket money.

I don’t even care that much about the “to earn some pocket money” or even the “when I retire” bit, as the timeline of your starting training isn’t that important. What is important is the idea (mindset) that becoming a ski instructor is something you can do when you retire – like spend more time with the grand children, take up flower arranging, learn the tango, etc, etc.

When you decide to become a ski instructor you make a decision to become a highly skilled sports instructor with all the time, effort, expense, training, etc, that entails. It is not something you should do, as something to do when I retire – that’s what golf courses are for.

Being a ski instructor means that you can do “stuff” that the trainer, or whoever, decides that you need to do to get the badge. I know there are loads of people who whinge that it’s not fair as they shouldn’t have to do this or that to get the badge (normally as they can’t do it), but hey the badges are BASI’s to give out and they set the rules, if you don’t like it then do something else. Just because you personally can’t fall-line a mogul field fast doesn’t mean the BASI should take this out of the L3 criteria, if you can’t do it then you don’t get the badge. Just because you can’t race is no reason for them to remove this criterion from the L4, so, no ET = no badge. I’m not saying this is fair – it’s just how it is. Maybe it will change one day, but ......

Now to tell you the truth I don’t even know what the requirements are for getting an L1. But BASI will have set the standard and a trainer will come along and check that you’re up to it, if you are then you’ll get a badge and off you go. Where’s my class.

But I don’t think that BASI ever meant the L1 to be the end of the/a training/assessment process ( I thought that was the L4 ), so if that’s all you’re after then maybe you should consider spending your retirement improving your golf swing, or baking cakes for the church fête, etc, there’s lots of things to do when you retire, becoming a ski instructor ain’t one of em.

PS – Hi roga, no not me guv Toofy Grin

Wayne said,

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

If people want to get their L1 and work in the UK, fine, go for it. Nowt wrong with that.
As I said, I know sod all about the requirements for the L1 or what it allows you to do. (should look at the BASI website more maybe ? )

But (again) I am saying that the mindset that ski instruction is just something you can consider doing (along with taking up golf, spending more time with the grand-children, learn cake decoration, etc) as a means to while away your hours when you retire is one of the reasons why we (British ski instructors) are having to justify our place in the pan-European ski industry and we are seen as a novelty (in some parts of Europe) when we actually do ski/teach at the same standard as the local instrcutors.

Anyway that’s me out of this.

Good luck kitenski in your retirement

A snowHead

Wayne, so, say Little Johnny wants to start having a go at playing tennis and his enlightened parents decide to get him a few lessons from the word go, to set him on the right path. Are you suggesting that his coach should have the same qualifications as those who are employed by tennis academies to coach would-be professionals? It is not to denigrate the profession of tennis coaching to say that the average recreational tennis player doesn't want or need a coach who is capable of telling Roger Federer where he's going wrong. The same goes for skiing.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

I honestly don't understand your point Wayne, or little tiger.

There are set requirements to pass BASI L1, what does it matter what age I do it at, or what mindset I have, if at the end I become a good instructor whose pupils enjoy having lessons with?

little tiger, I don't see anywhere where I complained about not being able to teach abroad with a L1?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hmm I think I can see both sides of the arguement. However, I suspect that the BASI system has developed due to market pressures and these are obviously different in the UK compared with the Alps.

In the UK, we potentially have a high volume of complete beginners, both children and adults, who may be looking at getting a few introductory lessons at their local dry slope or fridge, before going on their first ski holiday. Therefore we need a large volume of instructors to teach this. I guess we have much smaller numbers of more experienced skiers, and even fewer of these would then consider taking further lessons in the UK, so the demand for highly qualified instructors is weak. Obviously, the snowhead types are probably more likely to take further lessons than the average joe, but lets leave that out for a minute. So either BASI need to say that all BASI instructors need to be trained to a much higher level, and risk that supply of instructors does not meet demands, or to allow an entry level qualification (L1) which provides the instructor with sufficient skills to allow UK skiers to make their first ploughs. Does it matter whether these L1 instructors have aspirations to work up to L4 or whether they are content to teach part time at their local slope at L1 for the next 10 years? Obvioulsy, this approach will impact on how other countries view the BASI system, but in reality, those that attain the higher BASI levels are, more often than not, committed professional instructors and should demand respect.

In the French Alps, for example, I am guessing that they also have a high volume of compelte beginners, but that these are, in general, children, and that more of these progress through to become experienced skiers and would continue to have lessons in the Alps to progress. Therefore, the French system will apply different market pressures, and most instructors would be more employable if they were better qualified, so that they could teach the beginner group in the morning, park skills in the afternoon, and a race club in the evening. In the UK, it is more likely that these sessions would be carried out in a Fridge, by three seperate instructors working part time. Ok, the French are also good at safe guarding jobs for the French, but market pressure may explain, in part, why the French system asks so much of all their instructors. I would also guess that there is a large pool of 'excellent' skiers in French, who could attain said high level having skied from when they were 3...but in the UK...not so much. So either you have a small number of highly skilled instructors who are respected throughout europe but not enough to go round to teach all the newbies, or you have a very tiered system that we curently have.

I think the OP should go for it. If they like skiing, want to teach and have the ability, then they should do BASI 1. If BASI deem then to be suitable, then that is that.

After all it is free

Wayne wrote 'When you decide to become a ski instructor you make a decision to become a highly skilled sports instructor with all the time, effort, expense, training, etc, that entails. It is not something you should do, as something to do when I retire – that’s what golf courses are for'.

But surely you can become a 'highly skilled sports instructer' part time and after retiring from a more mainstream job? I don't see any contradiction at all.

The 'earn pocket money' thing is just the reality of beng a ski instructor.

I like Wayne's flower arranging analogy and I think it's a good one. no doubt throughout the country there are moderately talented flower arrangers, who love the hobby, and teach it part time for pin money. If they didn't the hordes slavering to learn the art of flower arranging would have no one to teach them. Like it or not, in the world outside a few valleys in the Alps, skiing is a marginal activity with very few opportunities for well paid full time jobs, and reliant on keen individuals giving up their time for free, or for very low pay. In this it is no different to many other hobbies and sports.

Whether a BASI level 1 is 'highly skilled' is debatable of course, but they certainly are compared to the novices and early skiers they will be teaching.

Finally, I suspect kitenski is simply being modest about his ski teaching ambitions. I'm in a similar position, intending to do BASI 1 with a view to having a secondary career in later life. I'd like to think that, over the next few years I could move on to BASI 2, after that, who knows. Perhaps kitenski feels a similar way.

scooby_simon, You may be right but they definately reffered to it as a the BASI level 1 exam. It allowed me to teach on drylopes and indoor snow but not at a real ski resort. What would that make it? I don't really care as I can't see myself instructing again

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

little tiger, It would seem like Wayne, that you have not bothered to actually look up what the BASI level 1 qualification is or what it allows you to do. But you seem to believe that you can comment on some who wishes to take the qualification and teach skiing on dry slopes or indoors. BASI 1 does not allow you to teach on the mountain (edited) the level 1 qualification is the entry level for starting on the journey towards becomming someone who can add real value to clients like yourself at the top level of skiing.

So at what age do I become incapable of learning to become a professional in a new area? If I retire at 30 doe that mean im excluded, what about 40? It seems that there is a lot of hostility from people who seem to believe that the term 'ski instructor' means that everyone who uses it should be at the same level.

Sadly eveyone has to start somewhere where and we cannot all be born to greatness like yourselves. Perhaps you believe that the people teaching the 5 yr old kids to do their first snowplough should be ISTD + ET trained???

Hey ho.... Very Happy

Help!!

BASI L1 questions...

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Bend ze Knees