 Poster: A snowHead
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I think the biggest change needed in Ski Instructing is the ability to teach, and not so much emphasis on the Ski Instructors Skiing ability.
Instruction is needed for all levels of student.
For example... A Ski Instructor imho, doesn't need to be able to fly through a set of gates at a high speed, if teaching Snow Plough to complete beginners.
Level 1 part time Instructors are ideal for this level. As long as they can carry out the individual tasks and can Teach and explain the reasons for each action, so that the Student understands, then that is more important...Surely?
Personally...I think there will be an increase in 'Older' people wishing to become Ski Instructors. We are all living longer, and they are wanting to put up the Retirement age.
Once the mortgage on the house is paid and the Children have left home, then i can see more and more 'older' people taking Ski Instructing up.
Older people who have experience Teaching and with good communication skills, would be a great addition to the Instructing Community imho.
Being able to communicate and get the pupil to understand and carry out the instruction, knowing the reasons for making such actions, is a must.
Most Top Sportsman are taught by Instructors or Teachers, who have an ability to spot faults, diagnose problems, and resolve them. Then show the pupil how to rectify.
They can't necessarily carry them out as well as their pupil, but they can see the mistakes the pupil doesn't necessarily see.
Having an Older Instructor who has wanted to learn how to teach properly, even though they have done it later in life... is surely better than having an Austrian Farmer who has happened to ski all his life, but can't teach, trying to Instruct you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looks like what Wayne's really concerned about is his standing among his international peers as a "British" ski instructor. Again nothing about the customer. I don't give a damn whether I get taught by a hot shot 20 something ex racer top badge holder or an estate agent who does a few lessons as part of his "portfolio" of interests if they've the skills and experience to help me. In fact I've had lessons from the latter and the enthusiasm of a lifetime of personal skiing has come shining through.
Personally I think the industry should be welcoming of older people into the profession not least because they've got more life skills and judgement experience that you can't always teach in a manual. If it's a problem for you that they're also a "ski instructor" then I'd suggest the issue is with you rather than them, I'm sure lots of us have seen plenty of "ski instructors" that we'd be wary of taking freeskiing with us.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 8-06-11 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
Personally I think the industry should be welcoming of older people into the profession ... |
There you go, kitenski, you are now offically an older person. Not sure that's what you were after when you started this thread 
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Here's an example, that sort of show's the point.
I played Golf to a good standard. Played for the County and off Scratch...so not too shabby. However, I was never good enough to turn Pro and make a good living.
I had many Lessons from Golf Pro's...who had all been through the system. Cracking Golfers, but most were unable to get their thoughts and ideas across, as they had poor communication skills.
I learnt most, from an elderly Gentleman who had played Golf most of his life, to a single figure handicap. He could see things others couldn't, but most of all, he had such good communication skills, that it was easy to understand what he was trying to implement into my technique and swing.
The role of the Video lesson has been a Godsend for many a Pro with poor communication skills. Seeing with your own eye's where you are going wrong helps so much.
I really do think Ski Schools should use more hand held video analysis on the slopes, to show pupils where they are going wrong.
With pictures and good teaching communication, it's so much easier for the pupil to understand.
It's the way forward imho.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| smithski wrote: |
| There you go, kitenski, you are now offically an older person. Not sure that's what you were after when you started this thread |
He's already got the distinguished hair colour...the skiing on Lhasa Pows is just camoflauge.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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spud, totally agreed. I'd add to that something I experienced with my childhood piano teacher (and I too reached a reasonable standard with my playing.) She often used to say that she could spot the difficulties pupils were having because she had never had huge facility herself, had experienced many of the same difficulties and was good at finding and explaining ways to get round them. She would explain the desired result in all sorts of brilliant ways but rarely (maybe never - I honestly can't remember a time when I heard her play) by 'demo-ing' herself. I've also had ski lessons in the Alps with a particular instructor who demos very little - although he's a great skier and is an ISTD - but is super-observant, and has exceptional communication skills, with and without the aid of video.
What you say here, also really struck home with me:
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I really do think Ski Schools should use more hand held video analysis on the slopes, to show pupils where they are going wrong.
With pictures and good teaching communication, it's so much easier for the pupil to understand.
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My first video analysis - by observant instructors with good communication skills - of the two sports, skiing and tennis, in which I've had such analysis, taught me more in half an hour than I'd learned in the previous 20 years!
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Tbh...I've never understood why every Sk Instructor is not carrying a hand held video camera. To be able to film your pupil, then show them immediately at the side of the slope, where they are going wrong, has got to be so much more advantageous.
I've reasoned it's either down to cost, or the fear that pupils will learn too quickly and they will lose return custom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| spud wrote: |
Tbh...I've never understood why every Sk Instructor is not carrying a hand held video camera. To be able to film your pupil, then show them immediately at the side of the slope, where they are going wrong, has got to be so much more advantageous.
I've reasoned it's either down to cost, or the fear that pupils will learn too quickly and they will lose return custom. |
Or the fear that non-instructors can get in on the act  "I am absolutely not going to instruct you but I'll film you then we can look at it together on the chair lift". My videographer fee is XX per hour.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| spud wrote: |
Tbh...I've never understood why every Sk Instructor is not carrying a hand held video camera. To be able to film your pupil, then show them immediately at the side of the slope, where they are going wrong, has got to be so much more advantageous.
I've reasoned it's either down to cost, or the fear that pupils will learn too quickly and they will lose return custom. |
Or the fear that non-instructors can get in on the act "I am absolutely not going to instruct you but I'll film you then we can look at it together on the chair lift". My videographer fee is XX per hour. |
I've not witnessed anyone doing this as a business...but plenty of Skiers film themselves and their friends.
It won't be long before people are doing this. Offering to film you, then putting it all on one of those dongle thingumies, for you to take home and analyse on your laptop. And why not? Fair play to anyone that does.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, I love your style!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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smithski,
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would be interesting to know the number of qualified L1's who never do any more BASI courses.
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I've asked the question.
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beanie1, thank you
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You know it makes sense.
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smithski,
from my course last june the answer at the moment would be 0 out of 6
one teaches in a dome and i want to do my next level. but I think we are the only two to get the shadowing hours in too so far
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Video is great and used widely in coaching or on clinics where there is time for it.
If someone books a 1 hour lesson on the hill they tend to want to ski a lot and not spend lots of time faffing. It is also pretty tough to see what is going on when trying to watch it back on a tiny screen with sun glare, if its snowing etc etc etc. As an instructor I would prefer to get a better idea of what’s going on by watching them fully and not through a view finder or on the tiny screen. I can then give them something more accurate. You want to be productive with limited time.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jjc, fair point. Video analysis isn't really compatible with just an hour on the hill.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jjc, I think it will develop such that you can just follow your students with a headcam, bluetooth the clip to them on the lift then leave it for them to digest at leisure later. In fact I'd probably pay for someone to do that for me now if they were a good cameraman. Steady head when skiing will become the new essential instuctor skill
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The issue is that the hack finds it pretty difficult to keep the subject reliably in frame not absolute speed (or else I'm just hopeless with a head cam - (gloves, sky, feet,, odd tilts etc). Plus I've a habit of taking "unorthodox" lines, even intentionally on occasion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Must be able to record within 18% of what Speilberg can record. 
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+2% for the over 40's
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kevindonkleywood,
dont start the over 40 thing off again
Out of curiosity are you planning on doing your level 2?
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spud,
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I think the biggest change needed in Ski Instructing is the ability to teach
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From the perspective of a punter as I said previously this is what I think.
Mind you from what I understand all you fancy instructor types still take lessons to improve your instructor grades and to improve you own personal ski techniques - what do you look for in an instructor?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kevindonkleywood,
I looked at doing a weeks coaching with Ice in novemeber then staying and doing the level 2 the following two weeks but was woried about the snow conditions so thought about putting it back to January and going out for three weeks then.
Just struggling to find accomodation and the transfers etc as i would be travelling alone, is there more than you travelling as i wouldnt mind looking at any cost savings
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| ... what do you look for in an instructor? |
When looking for somebody to train with I either look for an Instructor Trainer I have already skied with so I know that I will get on well with them, or a personal recommendation from somebody I trust.
For me what makes a good instructor is:
- a good technical understanding of the fundamentals of skiing
- a good eye, so that can quickly assess my skiing and diagnose problems.
- a wide repertoire of drills and tips which they can select from to help me focus on aspects of my skiing which need attention
- good coaching skills (knowing when to demo, when to intervene, when to let me just get on with things, when to feedback, etc)
- sensibly priced
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Curtains, Have not looked at accom or xfers yet but will let you know as soon as the course is confirmed
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, "... first of all he's too humble to know he's perfect..." So, how many Trainers does that leave in the pot?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Curtains wrote: |
kevindonkleywood,
I looked at doing a weeks coaching with Ice in November then staying and doing the level 2 the following two weeks but was woried about the snow conditions so thought about putting it back to January and going out for three weeks then.
Just struggling to find accomodation and the transfers etc as i would be travelling alone, is there more than you travelling as i wouldnt mind looking at any cost savings |
There are plenty of self catering apartments in Val D'Isere going (probably quite cheap that time of year I expect) and for transfers look at the Altibus which goes from Geneva to Val D'Isere. I don't know how early it runs in November mind, or if it starts in December so you'd have to check that out. It costs about 105 Euros return so not bad for 1 person. Since their L2 course is 5th to 16th Dec I expect the bus will be operating from 26th November which will be the opening weekend of the Espace Killy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
Basic premise is that I am now 44 and thinking about what to do if/when I retire at 55...
One thought is to get BASI 1 and maybe 2 and earn some 'pocket' money when I retire..... |
Is it just me (yeah, probably is), but is this not the type of mind set that is the root cause and very basic problem with British ski teaching's perception world (well Alps anyway) wide.
Can anyone imagine someone in Paris asking around to see if they could earn some pocket money when they retire working for the ESF or some Italian thinking hmmmm I know I see if I can get some work with the AMSI.
I thought that ski instructors are professional sports teachers
PS kitenski you're much younger than me so if you wanted to start training and join in with the BASI progression to see what level you can attain then fine go for it, but please bear in mind that clients pay shed loads of money for ski lessons and to have them delivered by someone looking to earn some pocket money may not be what they had in mind when they made the booking.
Waiting for the shouts
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| Curtains wrote: |
| looking to do some instructing when i retire. |
Yep seems it is just me |
Wayne 
kitenski obviously don't listen to this fool.
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Kitenski FWIW I can't see anything wrong with the premise of taking some instructor training with a view to doing some part-time teaching when you are older. I bet you will find the experience rewarding, both the learning and the ulitmate imparting of the knowledge to inspire else to enjoy what you clearly enjoy yourself. I have some experience of being in a position to impart skills and knowledge in the past and its very rewarding. I'd go for it if I was you I think. If you have the opportunity and time then I think I'd go for it, why on earth not?
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Megamum, There is a difference between looking at a new career for a sea(or mountain) change, and thinking to do a profession for pocket money...
If I thought I'd just pick up a bit of brain surgery for pocket money I'm sure you'd laugh... How about a spot of engineering?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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little tiger, AIUI, kitenski is already an extremely competent skier. His contemplating this career change cannot realistically be compared with training, from a standing start, to be a brain surgeon or an engineer.
The reference to pocket money is a red herring: it is only relevant to how much he will have by way of savings if/when he retires from his present occupation at 55 and how much money he needs to live on/look after his family with. These things are nobody's business but his and he has sensibly struck the words out of his OP. (I speak from some experience: I did some quite fulfilling things after giving up my first career, but the money I earned would have been - was - considered a complete joke by my former colleagues. I had saved enough, and had sufficiently inexpensive tastes and light responsibilities, for this not to be an issue.)
I agree with Megamum.
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little tiger,
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bit of brain surgery for pocket money I'm sure you'd laugh... How about a spot of engineering
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Neither of which you would be able to do unless you were qualified and competent to do so, just like skiing in reality, after all that is why we have a qualification and competence system in place.
If you are qualified then why should how much they choose to earn have any relevance?
Im am terribly sorry but even if I was able to become the head of a ski school the money I would earn would be 'pocket money' in comparrison to the oil industry, If i were to make the move it would be because I was passionate about the new discipline and I had taken time, effort and money to retrain to the required standard.
Perhaps you believe that people should work in the same job for their entire life? we should make a choice and base our whole existance on needing to make money from the career we chose at 16...
We should behave professionally, have the relevant qualifications, ski like professionals and have a real passion to improve the clients performance. If we decide to make large sums of money doing so is irrelevant.
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FAQ
booked in with ICE for a weeks coaching in Nov so hope to be at the standard by by Jan.....well i can hope 