 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dr No wrote: |
| Spud9, anarchicsaltire, Mounta1nGoat, I assume you received a letter of confirmation from the Snow Centre? Included in that letter is a recommendation to attend pre-training sessions with a BASI qualified instructor. These sessions take place on Tuesday evenings 7pm-9pm at a cost of £39.00. I attended one last Tuesday and musehead, we practiced the dreaded snow plough. |
Does anyone know if the pre-training sessions are available to folk doing BASI L1 course at Castleford? Sounds like a very good idea!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| cathy wrote: |
| Ooooh - good luck Spud9, anarchicsaltire and Mounta1nGoat!! |
Should add another Inside Out client to that list, CSKi who is doing the L1 this week 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As rob says good luck to all 4 SH's / Inside Outers on the courses . Remember to enjoy it and come what may it will be great training.
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| anarchicsaltire wrote: |
| Dr No, Not had a letter, better give them a ring! |
So I asked Monday, but nobody knew, said they would phone me after 2:00pm.
No call so just rang them today, Tuesday 15:00,
"I've asked one of the team and no we don't send out a letter just the confirmation e-mail receipt when you book"
Pre-assessment sessions?
"No?"
BASI registration?
"If you've paid for that in the fee then just turn up about an hour before the course and they will sort it out"
What time does it start then?
"Did they not tell you?"
No, it says 10:00 on the receipt but thought I better check.
"OK, turn up at 9:30 then"
Hopefully someone on this weeks group can let me know what really happens!
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| Spud9 wrote: |
Spyderman, kevindonkleywood, VolklAttivaS5, beanie1, Hurtle, Dr No, Thanks for the support guys, and the feedback. I need to lose some weight (well quite a lot actually) and build some fitness anyway, so having BASI 1 looming in October is good for concentrating the mind and forcing me to actually get into the gym/lay off the booze.
And thanks for the offer of assistance Spyderman. I get down to Hemel quite regularly, and have a few training sessions lined up already, so hopefully I won't need to take you up on your kind offer.
anarchicsaltire, I'll be really interested in knowing how you get on as I know how you ski. It'll be good to have another benchmark. |
It's a great reason for losing weight and getting in shape. No doubt that it will make the job easier. You'll feel a lot better for it as well I'm sure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dr No, cool. How did you find it and how many on the course/how many passed?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| Dr No, cool. How did you find it and how many on the course/how many passed? |
It was a good vibrant group with the age range from 16 to 63. Amongst them were junior ski racers, snowboard instructors and the rest plebs like me. I found the course tough and challenging both physically and mentally. 4 and a half days crammed with 6 months of material. And beware of wednesday - that's when strange forces hit you. And how many passed - We all did!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dr No, Well done to you. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dr No, congratulations!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Of course you all passed. You're reasonable skiers and it's a fridge! How can they possibly assess your real mountain skiing/teaching ability over a 150m pisted blue run? It's all part of the great BASI money/dream making machine 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Raceplate, must confess to having had passing thoughts along those lines.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Raceplate, It's not a "real mountain" qualification, it's a first step which serves it's purpose very well.
Once again congrats to all those that have passed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Raceplate, Hurtle, best go read up on what BASI 1 is and what it allows you to do/not to do!!
Hint, it has nothing to do with your real mountain skiing ability, that is level 2!
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kitenski, Well said.
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kitenski, I do realise that and am not denigrating in any way the effort required for Level 1, or denying its value as a stepping stone. I was more thinking of the purpose of it for those who stop at Level 1. Maybe not many do stop - that I don't know. For myself, I know I don't want to teach, but I'd like to be better at skiing on a mountain: if I worked hard, maybe I'd get through Level 1, but having thought hard about it, am not sure whether it would get someone like me any further forward.
Edit: and it certainly is a costly exercise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kitenski, Spyderman, I don't need to read up on it I passed L2 several years ago. I don't want to be disingenuous but L1 used to be an assessment of your likelihood to pass L2, not an exam in it's own right. When I took the 'Alpine Trainee Instructor' course (old L1) it was done on a mountain and was much more about your overall skiing ability and whether it was realistic for you to be considering ski instructorship as a career. As an example I 'passed' my old L1 but was told that I needed another 6 weeks on snow before I turned up for my L2. I think he was being kind. As a result of that course I realised that I needed much more than 6 weeks on snow; I wasn't fit enough or good/experienced enough. When I did present myself for assessment 26 weeks later (at the end of a season) I passed comfortably.
My issue here is that I think BASI are selling false dreams. I fail to see how BASI can possibly be properly assessing people's ski ability in a fridge. If you view L1 as a qualification in its own right this doesn't matter but BASI is about pushing people through the qualification system. If you get L1 you should immediately be thinking about what's necessary for L2 etc... You can see from the other comments here that people are already saying 'when are you going to take your L2?'. How many good recreational skiers who have passed L1 in a fridge and done their hours in the same place will then turn up to an L2 on a mountain expecting to pass and fail miserably on the variable (bump) terrain?
My old ski mentor failed the old system in exactly this way and I can't help thinking that this new L1 Pass system will encourage way too many medium/good skiers to turn up to L2 expecting to pass only to fail miserably and wonder: a) what they did wrong b) were they misled on their own ability? c) was it an unrealistic waste of money?
In my experience there is a BIG difference between L1 and L2, a HUGE difference betweeen L2 and L3 and a consistency issue between L3 and L4. Therefore if you want to move between grades you need to practice on a mountain, not in a fridge.
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Raceplate, BASI introduced the L1 as direct competition to the SSS & SSE ASSI, it also replaced the BASI Foundation course. It's primarily aimed at dry slopes and fridges in the UK, but it's also the first step on the BASI ladder. L2 and above of course isn't possible without practice on a mountain and BASI don't suggest that it is either.
You've got to start somewhere and L1 fits the bill.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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"It's primarily aimed at dry slopes and fridges in the UK, but it's also the first step on the BASI ladder. L2 and above of course isn't possible without practice on a mountain and BASI don't suggest that it is either."
Yes, but where is the assessment between L1 pass and L2 likely pass suitability?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 24-06-11 23:36; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Raceplate, I hear what you are saying and I agree to some extent that there is a big difference. but a level 1 gives you the ability to teach in a fridge.
I passed my level 1 last year and luckily during the course we had time to play on a few bumps that had been set up for a bumps team, in my feeback I was told what I needed to practice on and how long it should take, it was similar when i passed my FA level 1 coaching certificate.
I hope I got honest feedback , a couple of days of lessons on carving ( since its blody hard to practice in a fridge ) and play as much as you can on bumps and powder and you should be able to take your level 2 next year was my verbal feedback.
I didnt get to practice last year on the mountain as I spent all week in hospital with my 10 year old daughter so I'm going to try this February i hope with a week before the course and 6 months of fitness training. 
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| Raceplate wrote: |
Yes, but where is the assessment between L1 pass and L2 likely pass suitability? |
Within the trainers report given at the end of the L1 course, just like in the Foundation Course days as to suitability to progress to L2.
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You know it makes sense.
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Curtains, bloody good luck
I'm sure that you are experienced enough to know that there is a huge difference between bumps in a fridge and a real mountain. And carving availability. And powder.
I'm not having a pop, really I'm not, but a fridge and a mountain are miles apart. I've seen full season ski guides (decent skier just not 'BASI') fail L2 miserably.
In my experience you are exactly the category of person that turns up to L2 expecting everything to be rosy and goes home 2 weeks later wondering what went wrong and deeply disillusioned with the whole 'ski instructor' experience. I sympathise with that. You can't practice 'variable terrain' anywhere else but a mountain and you have to expect BASI trainers to 'big up' your chances of passing L2; it's their job.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| My old ski mentor failed the old system in exactly this way and I can't help thinking that this new L1 Pass system will encourage way too many medium/good skiers to turn up to L2 expecting to pass only to fail miserably and wonder: a) what they did wrong b) were they misled on their own ability? c) was it an unrealistic waste of money? |
I think Trainers are good at giving feedback at L1 about what is required if candidates are interested in progressing through the qualification system.
Pass or fail the L2 course is extremely good training and especially good value for money. One of the best things about the L1 course is that it allows you access to the L2 course.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, that's exactly my point! How can a BASI trainer possibly assess someone's suitability to pass BASI L2 level 3 variable terrain ability based on what they've seen over 150m of fridge piste?
Maybe they are ski gods after all
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, I think trainers are very good at giving feedback but how can they give feedback on something they've never seen i.e. variable (off piste) skiiing in a fridge?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Raceplate, it's pretty easy to get a good idea about someone's proficiency in the fundamentals of skiing on a blue piste, so why can't you get a good idea whether a candidate is at the entry level for a subsequent course? I can give a running commentary on someone's skiing after three turns at Hemel, and I have nowhere near the experience of typical BASI Trainers. Earlier today I sat in on some informal feedback that a Trainer was giving to a successful L1 candidate about what training could be undertaken next season to work towards L2. I thought the feedback was spot on and clearly he had a perfectly good idea what was required for the candidate to be successful in all aspects of L2.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| rob@rar, I think trainers are very good at giving feedback but how can they give feedback on something they've never seen i.e. variable (off piste) skiiing in a fridge? |
Because skiing variables or bumps uses the same fundamentals as skiing piste performance or Central Theme.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Raceplate, I think you are grossly underestimating trainers' experience. They will be able to get a good idea of L1 trainees' balance and reactions on whatever terrain they are skiing, and know how those skills will translate into more open terrain. And also don't underestimate how Hemel ruts up after a week of courses skiing on it!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, Yes, based on his piste (fridge) skiiing. In my experience, just about everyone that fails BASI L2 fails on their off piste/bumps/variable terrain skiing, none of which can possibly be assessed in a fridge L1 week.
It's in the BASI trainer's interest to 'big up' their chances of passing L2. They get paid for holding the original course and the re-assessment when the pupil fails. And a specialist training course prior to their re-assessment
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| rob@rar, Yes, based on his piste (fridge) skiiing. In my experience, just about everyone that fails BASI L2 fails on their off piste/bumps/variable terrain skiing, none of which can possibly be assessed in a fridge L1 week. |
The fundamentals which underpin skiing in those contexts can easily be assessed on relatively gentle slopes. I have no doubt that any decent instructor could give worthwhile feedback on whether a candidate is at the entry standard for L2, or what is required to reach that standard, after training a candidate for 5 days at an indoor slope.
| Quote: |
| It's in the BASI trainer's interest to 'big up' their chances of passing L2. |
I disagree.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| rob@rar, GrahamN, Sorry but I disagree. |
No need to apologise
I did my L1 in Val d'Isere. Didn't ski any bumps during the week. Only piste performance. My Trainer was able to give advice about L2 even though he'd not seen me ski bumps. I'm pretty sure he would have been equally able to give that advice if he'd run my L1 indoors because he is an extremely experienced trainer of skiers at that level, with an unerring eye for technical performance.
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rob@rar, Did you pass your L2?
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FAQ
You mean if I pass then anyone can? 
