Rights of way - look out above

A snowHead

Just remembered to post this as a little warning to be careful in France.

We were at the SFaB (thanks again Admin!) and Year3Jumper (my 8 year old) and I were setting off from the Peclet gondola towards 'Christine' on the almost flat blue. Y3J was slightly downhill of me and to my right. As we accelerate he starts to move left to start the S'ing so I also move left . There wasn't much room between me and the piste edge/wall so imagine my surprise when I am knocked over and into Y3KJ by a French lady who crashes in front of us.

She, and her husband, insist that she had priority as she was on the left. They were firm in their belief that people on the right had to give way as we were in 'France, not England'. I tried to tell them about the rules on the piste but gave up as it would have annoyed me too much.

Just remember that not everyone knows about the downhill skier rule. Those signs drawing attention to the skier below in France have real importance!

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I had a good swear at a Frenchie who looked straight at me then cariied on with his Europoncing directly toward me when I was the downhill skier. Having narrowly avoided me I then had to dodge his 6 year old hot on his heels picking up Daddy's bad habits. At least 6 year old will have had his Anglo Saxon vocabulary and hand gestures expanded.

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AndrewBailey, I think a very similar anecdote was related by another snowhead in a post a few weeks ago, again in France. At first I thought it might be something to do with French skiers erroneously thinking that the driving rules of the road applied, but then I realised that the traditional French driving rule is "priorite a droite" anyway, so it can't be that. Puzzled

Maybe best to keep a French copy of the FIS rules handy so that you can demonstrate/remonstrate with any (literally) misguided French skiers and tell them "Vous vous trompez!" Toofy Grin

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If any Frenchie gets aggressive, just tell them they are 70 years too late. It's worked for me. wink

They usually have a look like this on their face Shocked

and then generally ski off. Laughing

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spud, Bearing in mind their WW1 casualties they are being astonishingly tolerant of you.

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After all it is free

I find that shouting out the county that Dover is in, at max volume, is quite effective.

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All nationalities do it. I once laid into a German, maybe Dutch (I forget, but not French) who collided with my wife when she was the downhill skier. I told him he was out of control (he spoke good English) and I told him to get the hell out of there before I got really angry. He moved pretty quickly afterwards. But it's getting worse - I never set off without leaving a sizable gap above me - there's so many idiots skiing now. I'd never stop on the outside of a corner. Hell I'm starting to think I need a helmet Embarassed

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There's no excuse for any skiers - including French ones - being unaware of the rule. There are signs all over the place reminding people about priority for the "skieur aval".

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It were a bloody sight worse in the lift queues and wasn't just limited to the Italian pig who skied from the side into the gate at considerable speed and objected to my (ahem Blush

) gentle manual reversal of his progression via the handle on his back pack . . . the liftie backed me up Toofy Grin

But a bit worse was the complete *rse of a border (and his mates, Brit student docs) who thought it perfectly acceptable to repeatedly boot me in the leg with his board and claim it was to be expected in a lift queue . . . the 'conversation' that followed was interesting, I've not been that close to lamping someone for a looooong time . . . being an ugly, old brick s**thouse has its plus points, he backed off . . . shame, by that time I up for playtime Twisted Evil

There's always a bit of bargy in a lift queue but that last week was the worst I've experienced,

And yes I hold my hand up, I did hit Hurtle on the rump . . . however the bruising that resulted is on my person and I weren't already firing blanks . . . I would now be Shocked

1. How to deal with the French: tell them you're Scottish, it does make a surprising difference! Cool

2. FIS rules: good idea to have a copy in the local language, educate them!

3. Poor piste etiquette happens all over the place, including ... shock horror ... in Scotland - there seems to be an increasingly poor level of understanding everywhere.

4. Lift queues: deffo better in Scotland but other places in Europe are okay too, e.g. Austria. I once commented on the fact I thought the Austrians were pretty reasonable in queues to an Austrian mountain guide I was with, he said "ah but you Brits are so much better at queuing and we admire that. The French are appalling and the Italians just as bad but the difference is the Italians barge with style and charm so we don't mind so much", I laughed at that!

Have to say though some of the worst offenders I've seen in France are Brits who obviously have spent too much time copying local customs and taking their barging to whole new levels - they'd last about 30 seconds at Glencoe before being decked Twisted Evil

You know it makes sense.

I like to think that anyone that I've dealt with in my native language is left in no doubt as to the intent that has been levelled at them once I've finished with them, and I don't care what nationality they are Evil or Very Mad

- including the dimmocks that cut myself and kids up with about 1/2 inch to spare as we skied past the K&F and they thought it would be fun to slide in there at considerable speed and spray their mates with snow Evil or Very Mad

.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I think it varies a lot from resort to resort. I've honestly seen very little rude lift behaviour in the Espace Diamant though given that there are practically never any queues, people aren't tempted to push and shove (I think it can be quite bad during the Paris school hols; I'm never there then). There are very, very, few collisions too - I ski whole weeks without seeing even a minor one though I was taken out a while back by a Frenchman trying to overtake me down the very edge of the piste (I was skiing quite fast enough for the situation, which was approaching two lifts down a slope with a tricky camber and he just overcooked it; maybe wasn't aware of the camber). He was very apologetic but still an idiot. The worst behaviour I've seen locally was some Germans in Les Contamines, who were obnoxious. People are particularly careful with kids and the lifties have a lot of patience. I do wish they'd instigate singles lines though, to take advantage of the folks who are too insecure to travel up next to anyone but their nearest and dearest at busy times (not talking of families with kids - they're entitled).

I suppose that resorts which attract a lot of fast and impatient skiers who think they're God's Gift are likely to have more bad behaviour. Lifties should bawl them out more often. With "smart" lift passes it would be very easy to have a "three strikes and you're out" system for people who break the rules or ski recklessly. The lifts which shout "bambin", "scolaire" could be programmed to shout something suitably humiliating. wink

A snowHead

A snowHead

I think the biggest problem with skiing around is people (normally with a snowHead

's t shirt) stopping to look around for cheap cafes and then standing around and complaining that is was cheaper in the good old days.

I think we should introduce this type of system for anyone wearing any form of snowHead

's gear.

http://youtube.com/v/bSU-tpmr_dU&feature=pyv&ad=11674102768&kw=video

Maybe Admin could introduce this system

We could run a trail - say all the resorts in France - 1st to see if works

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Longer piste opening times and flood-lighting is the way to go.....

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Guvnor, no, I don't think so. Possibly some level of ignorance/trolling/economy with the whole story.

After all it is free

Chasseur, Or a point proven re: lack of knowledge of the FIS rules.... rolling eyes

Schuss in Boots, ay...possibly.

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No one's mentioned the Russians yet... Shocked

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James the Last, I think the responsibility of being the uphill skier is to be able to leave sufficient room and take sufficient care with what you do to avoid any potential hiccup by those below you, just as you are supposed to leave sufficient gap when driving to be able to stop safely from the speed being travel should anything at all happen in front of you. From the way you tell the tale here

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The biggest problem i've encountered, is passing Snowboarders. You haven't got the foggiest idea which way they are going to turn.

One minute they are turning Goofy...the next, a flip...and they are leading with the other foot rolling eyes

At least with a skiier you can watch their natural turn and rhythm, and guage when it's safe to pass.

You know it makes sense.

I've gone right off Flaine 'cos every time I've been there I've been hit by some French idiot going stupidly fast down a blue run. There are so many runs that cross others that a collision is almost guaranteed with that sort of speed.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

simon_bates, when to pistes merge or cross each other it is sensible for skiers to check up hill. This is not specifically covered in the FIS rules - though maybe Rule 5 (Entering, starting and moving upwards - A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.) could be said to cover it.

A snowHead

achilles, I agree that it is sensible to check uphill in those and many other situations, but the uphill skier/boarder should still have the legal responsibility to avoid the downhill person. Just like with driving, it's a good idea to watch out for other people who are not leaving the space they should be leaving, or people not giving way when they should. As stated in the first post, not everyone knows the rules...on the roads or the slopes.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I must admit I am paranoid about looking and checking and wanting to know where other folks are - it's no different to driving in that respect. I always take even more care in areas where pistes merge, it just seems a sensible thing to do. So given, you would imagine, any persons natural instinct for self preservation why do so many not look?

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What annoys me is people who just move off without taking into consideration the speed and direction of the uphill skier. Thinking that because they are the downhill skier they have ultimate right of way. I think some people just know the downhill rule and think that covers everything

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Is unfortnate that kids and slower skiers are more often at the mercy of others in not being hit but everyone has a part to play in slope safety. This rule is all very well but just like the marine "power gives way to sail" rule some pragmatism and context needs to be employed especially when it is busy. If you are skiing a substantially different line to everyone else you are putting yourself at risk; people randomly starting to turn on a flat where everyone is going straight or traversing the entire width of a slope at a shallow angle out of most people's cone of vision while skiing need to be aware of the difficulties they may cause to others regardless of FIS rules.

Like driving, just because you have right of way doesn't mean forging ahead and driving erratically comapred to the rest of the traffic is OK (and that goes for drivers with L plates too before someone pulls out the beginner argument).

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Confession time: when skiing with an off-piste group from one off-piste area to another, on the EoSB, I followed the next person sheep-like, without realising I had just skied over a piste. Luckily there was nobody skiing down the piste, but there easily could have been. My very bad. Embarassed

fatbob, yes, that area at the bottom of the slopes is carnage, isn't it?

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I totally agree that people starting from stationary at the side of the piste have a clear responsibility to look uphill and wait for a gap. People do just start off without looking but I've noticed an increasing tendency to do that on motorways too, where it is even more dangerous. You're driving along in the inside lane, biggish gap behind you, and some dork is joing the motorway, and on a collision course. Clearly they should slow down and slot into the gap behind (or speed up and get in front of you, if the speed limit permits). What they often seem to do, however, is hold their course and speed and assume that people already on the motorway will give way to them, if necessary by pulling out into the path of a faster vehicle blasting up the middle lane).

This behaviour seems to be increasingly common, though AFAIK the only place where traffic in the inside lane MUST give way to joining traffic is the Paris Périphérique. All our motorway junctions have adequate length to allow joining vehicles to match speed with traffic already on the road, and pull out safely. What many seem to do is choose their favoured cruising speed and just sit there, regardless. Often I slow down a bit to allow them to join in front, but once or twice when the road is otherwise pretty empty and the driver seems particularly impervious I have given them a loud blast on the horn instead. You then get the "startled rabbit" look as clearly they'd not thought to look in the mirror.

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Rights of way - look out above

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