 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, I'm a reasonably experienced skier (20+ weeks).
A few years ago I used to bomb down the piste, not worry about falling on mogully blacks, have a go at off-piste & powder.
But two or three years ago I lost my bottle - I can't put it down to any event in particular.
Last week I was with my family & a couple of others in Val d'Isère (age ranges from 11 upwards) and found it incredibly frustrating that I wasn't keeping up a lot of the time and bottling out of runs that I didn't like the look of. In flat light it was just ridiculous - I would rather have been at work!!! In the whole week I only fell once (idicating skiing well within my limitations).
I know I've got the technique, but has anybody got any ideas how I can get my nerve back?
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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get an instructor for a couple of hours; they can then gently push you!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Look in the attic.....
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ecsleath, if you're not happy charging around don't do it. I think you're unlikely to rediscover your confidence if you are pushing yourself to or beyond what you think your skiing limits might be. Maybe spend a bit of time skiing with somebody you trust is going to keep the skiing within your comfort zone, and give you a focus (following them) which is external rather than internal. That might be an instructor, a friend or a family member. Sports psychology says that if you've had a catastrophic collapse of confidence the best way to deal with it is to return to basics on very gentle terrain rather than just easing back slightly and hoping your confidence returns.
Or try drinking a lot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I think you're unlikely to rediscover your confidence if you are pushing yourself to or beyond what you think your skiing limits might be. Maybe spend a bit of time skiing with somebody you trust is going to keep the skiing within your comfort zone, and give you a focus (following them) which is external rather than internal. That might be an instructor, a friend or a family member. Sports psychology says that if you've had a catastrophic collapse of confidence the best way to deal with it is to return to basics on very gentle terrain rather than just easing back slightly and hoping your confidence returns.
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This. Maybe some people profit from being pushed by skiing with people better than them (my son shared a flat with a top instructor in Val D'Isere one season, and said he learnt heaps from going out with them on their days off - it would have reduced me to a gibbering wreck, I guarantee, and I hate feeling that I am having to ski outside my comfort zone to keep up).
Find the right instructor. Maybe do some "out of season" practice, with coaching, somewhere like Hemel. Or Tamworth - closer to home?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Another thing that I think I have seen discussed previously is that as we get older we do tend to get 'wiser' read 'more cautious' as I think the wisdom of reality and our own fragility sets in rather more when you reach the point of not healing up as quickly as you once did. Perhaps you are just re-learning how to deal with the reality of 'getting older'? I know I am and I know I don't like it 
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This is a question which interests me very much. I have friends who come to ski with me who have much the same problem. Their technique is fine, they can ski virtually any piste and seldom fall. But they lack confidence. The suggestions above all seem very reasonable. My own belief is that relaxing is the real solution but that is easier said than done. Try it on slopes that don't frighten you. Also do try to go just that little faster than you think you can (work up gently). If you are fighting to slow yourself down all the time, skiing is much harder than when you let the skis run.
Any better ideas?
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You know it makes sense.
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i'm guessing that your boyd has forgoten how to start a turn well, and youve got some bad habits ingrained; as a result you are not stable in the early part of the turn, you end up skidding the second part of the turns, you find yourself oversteering and your calves and knees hurt, and youconstantly feel on teh edge of control, so you hav eto slow down cos your weight is going backwards and forwards all over the place etc etc.
been there, done it, several times over, and generally get throught it.
i doubt that most instructors can spot in just an hour what the change might be, if theyve never seen before. If you've got a bit longer then you have a chance - think about the indoor slopes- get better value 1:1 lessons there.
Or, get back to basics.
for example first day this week i was skiing , not great , but skiing. My wight was all over the place, the skis were skidding, and i was up for skiing back into town and swapping my sks for some beginners easy skis. I got the technique book out that evening, did some basic exercises turning my toe in and then my knee in while sitting on a chair to get teh basic movements back ingrained. Next day, first turn, made the same moves, ski carved, and the holiday started. The adrenaline came back, bombed down lots of empty pistes, and donw some good steep stuff.
Have confidence - it can come back as quickly as it went.
Good luck 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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well, I have suggested before now skiing to music - it helps me a lot when I feel under confident because of poor vis, flat light, or whatever. But it's generally a rather unpopular suggestions - particularly with people who have never tried it. 
And a vin chaud - already got that up on the suggestions board.
I am actually quite a confident skier, on the whole, but I do find Val D'Isere can be a bit intimidating - it's maybe not the ideal spot for re-discovering your mojo. Similarly Chamonix - because there are so many very good skiers there (as well as too many plonkers going too fast, and generally too many people). I love Chamonix's mountain vibe, but it's not confidence-inducing in the old and feeble.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I also find that I've got a 'bloody hell, this feels too fast' speed that cuts in and slows me down - I've not worked out why, but again it must be a confidence issue. Maybe the OP could think about what aspects they struggle with in that sort of a way and ask an instructor to help. pam w, sorry, still haven't tried the music
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lessons. Technique dispels fear, even in the old and feeble.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, most definitely lessons, but that has already been suggested more than once. By far the most important thing.
Megamum, thing is, you have been steadily improving your technique and confidence (by the sound of it) whereas the OP used to be much more confident, and found he's lost his nerve, which is maybe a bit different.
And no, I don't think
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'bloody hell, this feels too fast'
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is necessarily a confidence issue at all. I definitely have that feeling sometime, and I am fairly convinced it's because I find myself skiing faster than I can competently control, and faster than someone with my ability SHOULD be skiing. It's a very good thing to have that feeling, I reckon, and it's just rather unfortunate that you see some skiers around who are pretty hopeless and ski far too fast.
Good job some of us are more prudent!
My niece borrowed our apartment for half term, with her OH and son, and another family of 4. Their 7 year old had had a couple of dry slope lessons, done really well, and was desperate to ski on snow. I (being bossy) strongly recommended they let me book him some lessons but they were sure he'd be fine. He fell on his second run down a nice green slope (when his mum had been yelling at him to slow down) and was hauled off to the medical centre next morning when still complaining about his leg. No wonder he was complaining, poor little sod, spiral fracture of tibia - straight into toe to hip plaster.  there are lots of "confident" skiers around - not all 7 years old - whose confidence is sadly, quite unfounded!
Certainly there are also some capable but very under-confident skiers around, and then the best answer is a really good private instructor who will judge just the right amount of encouragement to provide. Not their mates assuring them that this is an "easy black" and then whooshing down it at top speed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| well, I have suggested before now skiing to music |
Yes. Sing as you ski to get the rhythm. It doesn't have to be out loud - but that helps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Many thanks to all for your suggestions.
I don't think my problem's particularly to do with technique. My red/blue piste skiing is pretty efficient (I can ski all day without any thigh-burn) - I just seem to lose it when faced with steep slopes (or poor visibility). I have no problems with icy slopes either - in fact I was usually first down that sort of stuff last week and quite enjoyed it (unlike my companions).
I've ordered the "Inner Skiing" book (thanks dippdydoodogg) and will read it before my trip to Morzine at the back end of next week.
I may well take Megamum's advice and have a lesson too.
However, I'm starting to come round to the idea that I should just ski how I want to and not worry about anybody else.
Nice to be remembered moffatross, that was a fun week!
Cheers,
Ed
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Would be interested to know what you think of Inner Skiing. It changed my attitude completely (much to my surprise!).
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| rob@rar wrote: |
ecsleath, if you're not happy charging around don't do it. I think you're unlikely to rediscover your confidence if you are pushing yourself to or beyond what you think your skiing limits might be. Maybe spend a bit of time skiing with somebody you trust is going to keep the skiing within your comfort zone, and give you a focus (following them) which is external rather than internal. That might be an instructor, a friend or a family member. Sports psychology says that if you've had a catastrophic collapse of confidence the best way to deal with it is to return to basics on very gentle terrain rather than just easing back slightly and hoping your confidence returns.
Or try drinking a lot. |
Follow this advice, preferably the first paragraph for skiing purposes, the second if you don't want to remember the skiing experiences.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| I think you're unlikely to rediscover your confidence if you are pushing yourself to or beyond what you think your skiing limits might be. |
ecsleath, though I understand the logic of this, I fear the advice might be mis-interpreted, i.e. taken to mean you shouldn't try anything that worries you. If you have that approach, I suspect you will never progress much. No-one is asking you to push yourself (far) beyond your skiing limits. Indeed, you said that you thought you were skiing well within your ability.
But there are situations that worry you, e.g. steeps and flat light. Both are very natural problems and probably the great majority of skiers have trouble with them at times. Flat light tends to bring bad habits, makes one want to sit back and then skiing is that much more difficult. Technique goes to pot. I don't really know an answer for that except to relax more (so that you can react better to the contours of the piste and stay better balanced on the skis) and not think too much about what is directly under the skis.
That steep slopes are off-putting is understandable - it's self-preservation. One imagines all that can go wrong on the descent. Even with almost 50 years of snow under my skis I still have that problem sometimes. A few weeks back I skied the Nordabfahrt from the Zwölferkogel in Hinterglemm for the first time and that had a section where I had to grit my teeth and go for it rather than chicken out on the "bypass" that was there. Of course, I was convinced (well, almost) that I could manage the slope. Next time it should be easier (I hope). But I think there are times when you have to force yourself not to take the easy way if you hope to improve your confidence. It's a slow business but the results make the struggle worthwhile in the long term.
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| espri wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| I think you're unlikely to rediscover your confidence if you are pushing yourself to or beyond what you think your skiing limits might be. |
ecsleath, though I understand the logic of this, I fear the advice might be mis-interpreted, i.e. taken to mean you shouldn't try anything that worries you. |
I think it's important to take in to account the second part of my post (the bit about rebuilding confidence on relatively easy slopes) a sort of back to basics approach, before testing yourself again on steeper terrain. If you used to have the confidence to tackle challenging terrain but you have now completely lost it, simply doing the same thing over and over and hoping to MTFU is unlikely to lead to a different outcome.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I hear you. In my last 6 week's skiing I've fallen once - which as you say, indicates that I'm not pushing myself at all.
I've taken a few private lessons and I will happily follow an instructor anywhere - yet go to pieces on my own.
Things which work for me:
i) Really lost it this year so went in to the hire shop and demanded short, buttery planks which did give me a confidence boost.
ii) empty pistes (will not be returning to the Alps!)
iii) I actually skiied better in a white-out because I'm not being distracted by others being asshats, by what I can see or what's coming - I just ski and of course all you can rely on is feel.
I want my mojo back though.
It might sound daft but I want to return to a mountain I know I have skiied well in the past - home comforts maybe? I'm going to go back, book a full day's private and get some video analysis.
People tell me that I "look great" but it doesn't feel great feeling close to a panic attack and looking up at steep faces and thinking "5 years ago I'd have been up that". I didn't used to carry a piste map because it didn't matter where I came off the lift...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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clarky999.... just LOL 
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| It might sound daft but I want to return to a mountain I know I have skiied well in the past - home comforts maybe? |
This is a good idea, also in the sense of repeating a run until you're happier on it. First time down it's nervy. But, having survived, the next time you can take it easier and gradually build up confidence. On repeated runs you can speed up, for example, or take a more direct line you wouldn't have fancied earlier. Or add in a bit you skirted round first go, try more difficult snow.
rob@rar's advice to go back to basics (which always helps) is no doubt the best for someone who has lost all confidence. But that's not how I read the OP. I thought that ecsleath usually felt fine and was happy on his skis but then lost his nerve a bit when the going got tough. I know the feeling! There practising basics will help but then comes the time when you just have to jump the hurdle. Always stepping back just makes it more difficult. In the end it boils down to the fact that has often been mentioned here, that skiing is 80-90% in the head. Being confident in the basics can give that extra boost needed but equally, if you know that really you could manage a slope, sometimes you just have to give it a go. Once started, it's (mostly) not too bad.
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You know it makes sense.
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espri, I find breaking it down helps too... In order to carve arc to arc turns on a steeper slope I start by carving 1 then 1.5 then 2 etc etc...
It is easier as you say once you have done it... I find it easy to then say... hmmm maybe I could do another half a turn...
Earlier in my skiing I would break unfamiliar slopes down like this... do one turn... then maybe 1.5 or 2... etc etc... pretty quickly I'd be skiing the slope...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Alexandra, that makes sense to me. As luck would have it, I'm off to PdS tomorrow which is the place I know far better than anywhere else. I've happily(ish) skied blacks in the past such as Creux off the top of Chamossière and those on Mont Chery so I think I'll give some of those a go.
I also like little tiger's suggestion. I think that's probably how I used to ski steep/mogully stuff in the past - Just look at the next 2 or 3 turns knowing I can do it rather than looking in the distance at the intimidating potential kilometre slide if you fall. Doesn't make for a particularly smooth/rhythmical run though!
Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Alexandra, good on you!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| The nerves when skiing problem is something which has been happening over the last few holidays. I think it started off as "boot problems" leaving me with numb feet and loss of confidence - obviously if you can't feel your feet you don't want to be on a steep mogul field! |
Interesting. That's what started my issues off I think. I don't get 'nerves' as in fear of the slope, what I get is a fear of being able to get down it without having to stop and cry from the pain half way down. Or, as you say, fear that my feet/legs will operate as my brain is directing them to do. It's been holding me back a lot lately and as such, my confidence in my ability is suffering. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Alexandra, that bit about questioning yourself sounds just like me!
I hire skis now (I couldn't imagine doing without my lovely Salomon boots) after the cost of carriage & servicing made having your own skis non-economical. I'll tend to have a chat with the ski hire bloke about type of skis - i.e. Fairly advanced, 90% piste skiing. I've usually been pretty happy with the skis.
The problem's with the skier, not the skis
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Alexandra, If motherhood didn't change your attitude then you are lucky. It made me very aware of my own mortality, for example I went from positively enjoying the opportunity to fly in an aeroplane to suddenly hating the notion of being at the whim of someone else 36000ft up. I will still do it, but I no longer look forward to the chance to do so. When I started skiing it was a two edged sword - if terrifed me, but my Swiss friends had got my kids skiing and I knew that I needed to be able to follow them up and around the mountain. For a long time I skied because I had to. It took a certain SH's holiday before I started to ski because I enjoyed it. I still find skiing frustrating in the extreme though because I am a perfectionist and it bothers me that I can't ski 'technically' well, but these days the fear is much less. However, I think I ski as much for the satisfaction I now get out of being able to now to ski down what I once couldn't have contemplated as I do for the enjoyment. There are many times when it's not 'enjoyable', but the 'satisfaction' is the driver at the moment. Does that make sense?
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ecsleath, So how did you get on - did the book help?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think one thing to bear in mind is that even expert skiers do not feel the same on an icy steep black / in poor conditions as they do on a blue / red with perfect snow. From the outside they may look like they are skiing perfectly, but there's a lot going on under the surface! It took me a long time to realise this.
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beanie1, So do you believe that expert skiers (say instructor + levels) still find situations that they find fearful?
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FAQ
A lesson with an instructor who will gently push you is not a bad idea I think.
Sorry. 