 Poster: A snowHead
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In my life I've skied five different weeks on five different pairs of skis.
I feel I should know more/care more about what they're doing for me. Where do I start? Obviously a part of the answer is to try some different skis. But what is there to like/dislike?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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there will be more techy answers than this but do you play any sports which involve hitting balls? you know how you sometimes just pick up a bat/club/raquet and it feels right? it's like that with skis
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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James the Last, If you get a chance, compare some side-by-side, i.e. during the same day. You'll probably notice a difference even between similar type skis.
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James the Last, I always wondered this until I tried a couple of demo sessions at UK fridges. That really opened my eyes, pretty much every ski felt different in one way or another and I could tell within a couple of turns if I liked them or not. Admittedly a fridge is not the best testing environment, so another option would be to try a few different rental models during your ski holiday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queen bodecia, Total agreement with what you say. (or +1, if you like). The point is that a fridge is a stable environment, and a reasonable place to compare skis. Having said that, I bought my Missions after a couple of days on powder at Tignes and having not got on with them in a fridge. Were it not for that snow I would be skiing on Fischer RX8s, a very different animal indeed.
The fridge sessions taught me how much difference there was between skis.
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As to what you might like/dislike:
Small slalom turns/big gs turns/straightlines
Soft playful bouncy jibby/stiff charging
Light and reactive - dance your way down/ heavy and damp - smash through everything in the way
Rocker to surf up over stuff/traditional camber to grip hard snow and rebound out the turns/mixture of both
etc.
FWIW, I've never demoed skis before buying, yet have loved all my skis. If you know what you like and want, obsessively excessive geeky research seems to work well.
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James the Last, skis are so many and varied these days that there are likely many that you would enjoy... and many different experiences awaiting you on them.
Before skis, though, get a good pair of boots well-fit both to your feet and your body! Too many people think the boot only needs to fit the feet, but in reality, it also has to fit the way you stand, the way your body is shaped and weight is distributed, and so on...
After that, take Scarpa's, advice and demo. The first day, perhaps try one ski then another right away to feel some differences. If possible, try the two that are the "farthest apart" in target experience (short v. long turns, carved v. smeared, lively v. damp) and then try all of them for longer periods. If you find a pair you just hate, take them back right away and swap them out for another pair, expressing what you didn't like. They may need a tune or they may just not work for you.
Keep going until you find at least one pair that just put a grin on your face. Buy those. Some back later to expand your quiver. Finding the skis is half the fun!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarpa, Did you try any of the others in the Black Crow range ? I noticed a few pairs in Chamonix last week and fancy giving them a go.
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another + 1 for fridge testing, I have tested quite a few skis in the fridge at Hemel and also the same skis out in the Alps, you can get a pretty good idea from the fridge, however only about certain aspects of the ski, after all there are limitations on speed and radius of carve you can do in the fridge. If you understand these limitations and can equate these to mountain use then its a pretty good testing ground.
One word of caution tho as I found out, if you test some 32m turn radius skis at Hemel waer a helmet as the walls hurt when you crash 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks. Are they good in fridges (HH/MK) at lending you a good choice? I feel in not knowing the answer to this question my skiing has a long way to go!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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James the Last, IMO, fridges don't offer enough space nor different surfaces to really count. On next holiday use a great sk shop with lots of options and switch a lot.
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Rather than being the ideal test environment fridges are quite good at simulating a "fairly crap conditions" environment. Thus you won't necessarily get the best out of e.g off piste or big radius skis but you'll get an idea of whether you can use them in tight situations, variable snow etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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But then I read skimotteret's incredibly long (and insightful) post on boots, and wonder whether a new pair of tighter-fitting boots would be a good place to start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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James the Last, probably.
I'd bet at least a tenner that all your boots so far have been too big
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Poster: A snowHead
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James the Last, I am not highly experienced, but have ski tested and can vouch for the fact that they they often feel different when skied on. In particular skiffness and added width make a huge difference (as do large changes in length). However the biggest demonstration of that was when I went from Elan WaveMagics in a 160cm to a Elan magfire 78 Ti in a 168cm last year - within the first 100 yds of first clip-in said Magfires had dumped me on my rear end 3 times  and I was ready to make a trip to the hire shop (though I didn't). So yes, they don't all ski the same
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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david@mediacopy, No.... I wanted a twin tip for all mountain use with mid 90 to 106 underfoot. But the Navis will prob be my next ski when I break these ones 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Scarpa, I quite like the look of the Corvus but have just seen the price ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Buy a well regarded ski appropriate for what you want to do with it, the way you ski and your height/weight and really it's hard to go far wrong these days imo.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Thanks. Are they good in fridges (HH/MK) at lending you a good choice? I feel in not knowing the answer to this question my skiing has a long way to go! |
I bought mine at Ellis Brigham at Castleford, and I think they have one at the fridge in MK too.... they let us try about 4 pairs each and were pretty helpful tbh. Think the shop reimbursed the cost of our slope time too (!)
Agree that a fridge doesn't provide ideal conditions, esp for certain types of ski as others have said - but better than nothing. It should give you a reasonable idea of how they feel, and its good fun. I have found a big difference between those I tried, and the staff may be able to offer some advice.
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^ Ellis Brigham at Milton Keynes are pretty helpful about trying a few different skis.
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ww166no, Not sure, I've not really followed them but saw a few pairs last week which looked good.
To be fair, I've always found it pretty hard to demo ski's and the last few pairs I've bought have been 'blind', based on price and recommendation. But no problems so far. The key is to understand what you need and how you plan to use them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| The key is to understand what you need and how you plan to use them. |
Mmmm.
The problem is, that takes me back to my first post all over again. How do I know what I need? I plan to use them for skiing - and indeed I have no plans to buy skis so am of course inevitably at the mercy of the hire shop's range.
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James the Last, On Piste ? Off Psite ? Race ? Park ? Steeps ? Bumps ?
Personally I love to ski off piste but the reality is I spend a reasonable amount of time piste skiing and enjoy playing at racing with a bit of high speed. With that in mind I tend to look around for kit with an 'All Mountain' tag aiming for something that's got a wide rage of ability (and cheap). My old Karma's being a case in point. Ironically my current 'cheat' GS ski's seem pretty good at everything too.
It's also going to depend on where you are in your skiing development and how quickly you wish to improve, as this will dictate the relative stiffness and side cut of the skis that will suite you. Probably better to go slightly stiffer than you need now in anticipation of future development. Ski's with a tighter side cut / radius may make it easier to develop your 'carving' but may not be so ideal when things get steeper.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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While I totally accept that there are differences in the brands and the types of ski I think there is an alternative position on this. I recall a very famous guitar player being asked what set-up he'd like when guesting in the studio he said: "Any guitar as long as it's Fender, any amp as long as it's Marshall".
The point being that you'll probably be able to ski on anything the hire shop give you. If you're really good it probably won't even matter what they give you. Similarly if you're really bad it won't matter either (as long as they're not too long).
I think ski choice, like many other aspects of our lives has become far too complicated for its own good. There are also probably way too many choices of ski for the average 1 week a year holiday. I'm not saying don't try them out, but I've never actually found the ski to be that much of an innovation to my skiing. Even when I changed from my thin 195 Rossis to carvers I kind of thought wow this is going to be amazing but it was somewhat underwhelming and while it was nice to have a shorter ski, I still concentrated more on the technique rather than what the ski was doing because of its technical design.
All the above is written accepting that big fat skis are going to perform better in powder etc. I know that the designs have improved. I'm just saying that I don't own different cars for the different journeys I make. I have one car that performs well in some circumstances and less well in others . . .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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johnnyh, I notice a lot of difference. A slalom ski is never going to make big high speed gs carves, for instance. It depends on how you like to ski.
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I'm just saying that I don't own different cars for the different journeys I make. I have one car that performs well in some circumstances and less well in others . . .
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In that case you may aswell have a G-Whizz. It will get you along the roads in the same way as anything else. Or wait, maybe you'd notice the difference between that, a Landy Defender and a Zonda. They do different thigns better, so you get the one that mosts what you do, or want to do.
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clarky999, yes, that's what I said.
You have one car and it will do most things reasonably.
I accept there is some difference in skis but probably nowhere near what the marketing department would have you believe. For many people they will probably just ski on the ski provided by the hire shop and adapt to that skis performance. The skis in the hire shop are going to be general purpose skis anyway for most people's usage.
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You know it makes sense.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
johnnyh, I notice a lot of difference. A slalom ski is never going to make big high speed gs carves, for instance. It depends on how you like to ski.
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I'm just saying that I don't own different cars for the different journeys I make. I have one car that performs well in some circumstances and less well in others . . .
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In that case you may aswell have a G-Whizz. It will get you along the roads in the same way as anything else. Or wait, maybe you'd notice the difference between that, a Landy Defender and a Zonda. They do different thigns better, so you get the one that mosts what you do, or want to do. |
if you can afford a zonda then great, however for the great unwashed it's the best you can afford for what you want to do. same with skis.
just bought a pair of b83 bandits and still not suure if i like them.. however a couple of more days up at glenshee before next ski hol and i'm sure they will be great.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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mugen, exactly!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm one of those who is happy to ski on any 2x4.
It's not that I can't tell the difference. I just don't have a strong preference. I simply ski differently on different skis.
That said, there's some advantage to skiing the same pair of skis, however inappropriate for the condition. So having a pair that can work in most conditions would be the best solution for those who doesn't plan to cart 5 pair of skis on their holidays. For finding that 1 pair, a frig is probably as good a testing ground as any.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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johnnyh, mugen, I'm confused. Are you agreeing that there is a big difference in skis, and you get the ones that suit best. Or are you saying it doesn't matter what you get as they all do most things reasonably?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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clarky999, I hope not, 'cos then they'd be wrong (he he he he) - I'm with you, I can ski high speed GS curves on my 165 SLs and I can straightline bumps or ski powder on my 190 GSs but in each case I'd prefer something else.
And, even within broad genres, some skis suit some people, some don't. I don't really get on with Atomics, the OH doesn't really get on with Rossignol. We both like Volkl, Stockli and Nordica (to the extent of the models that we have tried).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clarky999, under a new name, what I'm saying is that there is *some* difference but ultimately many people will simply ski with what their boots are attached to. No doubt there are performance differences at the extremes of ski types (GS, Slalom, Powder etc.) which are noticeable too. But in the main I think you can ski on most things and adapt to them for your style and the terrain.
I still believe there's probably more marketing connected to the range of skis available than tangible enhancement to the skiing experience. But then we all like getting the gear, so I can understand why there are so many variants available.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="johnnyh"]I recall a very famous guitar player being asked what set-up he'd like when guesting in the studio he said: "Any guitar as long as it's Fender, any amp as long as it's Marshall". quote]
Was he just a famous guitar player or a good one - i'm guessing the former; and probably sponsored by Fender and Marshall
Any guitar player worth any salt knows that unless your guitar is set up properly it will be crap to play and pretty much crap tone. You buy a fender from an average shop and it will not play as well or sound as well as a lesser quality guitar set up properly.
Nothing wrong with fender guitars or marshall amps by teh way
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sev112, sorry but that's not true (about the guitars). The point was that if you're good (at what you do) the equipment will take second place. If you can play you can make even the cheapest set up sound great. If you can't play, you can complain about your "tools".
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johnnyh, yep, OK, fair enough. Also, some people notice, some don't (I do...)
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| johnnyh wrote: |
| I recall a very famous guitar player being asked what set-up he'd like when guesting in the studio he said: "Any guitar as long as it's Fender, any amp as long as it's Marshall". |
Well, comparing Fender guitars with, say, Gibsons, Fenders generally have narrower necks with more of a camber and a 251/2" scale length, while Gibsons generally have wider flatter necks with a 243/4" scale length. These differences give a very different feel to the guitars. And while Marshall amps do vary a bit, when overdriven they all tend to give a similar sound - different to that given by some other makes of valve amp. So I think the guitarist in question was loosely specifying a particular type of guitar neck, of good quality, and an amp with a particular sort of sound - whilst he wasn't being overly fussy, he wasn't saying that anything would do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sloop, no I think the point is exactly that anything will do. Because if you know what you're doing you can make the kit (skis, guitars, cars whatever) do what you want it do within reason. It's probably not an actual quote anyways. The point was that you can worry about all the stuff or you can just get on with it and do what you set out to do.
On a boring technical point I have five different fender guitars (teles & strats), all the necks vary somewhat. All have a different feel to them. I would, however be able to play any song "I know" on any one of them.
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johnnyh, that's a reasonable point.
Oh, and I got boring and technical first 
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