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Flying with avalanche airbag systems

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Anyone up to date info for Turkish Airlines out of Salzburg? Called call centre - not a clue.
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anyone flown via Easyjet with an airbag recently? Their page here https://www.easyjet.com/en/terms-and-conditions/dangerous-goods says ok to carry in hand or hold luggage.

I flew Lufthansa in April this year with the avi bag and cylinder in the hold bag, the checkin man said they'd prefer it in hand luggage, but zero issues out and return with it in the hold luggage.
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@kitenski, Lufthansa told me the same... I took their advice and got the rucksack with cylinder through security at Munich, but not without some issues, they called the supervisor and consulted paperwork I had about the cylinder. There's no way I'd even try that at Heathrow.
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Hello

I've just purchased an airbag with the E2 system and my understanding is there is no gas and no lithium battery so I don't need any special clearance for flying. BUT has anyone got any views on if its safer to pack in the hold luggage or take as carry on to avoid hassle?

Thanks!
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kat.ryb wrote:
Hello

I've just purchased an airbag with the E2 system and my understanding is there is no gas and no lithium battery so I don't need any special clearance for flying. BUT has anyone got any views on if its safer to pack in the hold luggage or take as carry on to avoid hassle?

Thanks!


I doubt it makes any difference in avoiding hassle. However personally with such a pricey item that I could take as a carry-on given I want a carry-on bag of some description, then the expensive avalanche rucksack is not leaving my sight Toofy Grin
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@jabuzzard, thank you! Yeah similar thoughts re the £.
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Interesting (unresolved) thread in the comments here, basically unable to fly with the bag! Can’t be in checked in luggage and also cant be in hand luggage.

https://www.wildsnow.com/32521/the-ortovox-arcteryx-litric-airbag-system-a-review/

Snippet

I juste receive my Avabag Tour 30 with Litric inside but I had a problem to take the plane: I wanted to travel from Zurich to Denver but I was not allowed to take my Litric in cabine !!!! the security told me that it’s forbidden following the IATA DGR table 2.3A, As the litric is not a removable airbag it’s considered as “bagage with installed lithium batteries” and the IATA table 2.3A is clear:
“Baggage with installed lithium batteries non-removable batteries exceeding–0.3 g lithium metal or 2.7 Wh = FORBIDDEN” and the Litric battrie is 7.4 Wh !!! Is anybody aware of this problem ?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thought this might be useful for somebody. Flew to Geneva early February 2023 from London Gatwick on Easyjet with my Scott E1 30l electric avabag as carry-on with my ski helmet too. I had not contacted Easyjet beforehand and did not mention it at check-in.

Other electronic bits like tablet, walkie-talkies, chargers, batteries, transceiver were in a plastic bag inside the avabag.

Pulled aside at security following luggage scan, had to unpack bag (plastic bag tip from this forum greatly helped). Had full Scott spec printed out, explained principle of it, and security guy went off to discuss with supervisor with spec after opening motor compartment etc. (no batteries and discharged). He had not seen an electric avabag personally though a colleague had. Came back a couple of minutes later and was fine to go on, just repacked and went through. He did suggest unmounting the motor and putting through the scanner in the future may avoid having to unpack, but won't be doing that! Return from Geneva didn't get a second glance.

Hope that helps/reassures those with a similar bag.
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@ficklefisher, thanks for sharing, what spec was it you printed out?
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@kitenski, the document is from Scott's website: https://asset-misc.scott-sports.com/sco/scott-alpride-e1-airbag-system-travel-guideline_1682544_pdf_original_1.pdf

Essentially navigate to the bag (https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-patrol-e1-30-backpack-kit), select documents link below the product details, and the one to download (link above) is called "SCOTT Alpride E1 Airbag System Travel Guideline".
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As an aside, the security man did start to open the airbag zip itself and I said he was fine to do that, but I would have to re-pack it taking up a large area of floorspace to do so. So he didn't unzip it!
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@ficklefisher, thanks, did you print the whole lot or just the first 2 pages?

Also noticed there are software updates!

https://www.alpride.com/software-update-e1
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@kitenski, I printed the whole lot, on both sides of A4 paper. Not seen the software update, better check that out!
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You know it makes sense.
kitenski wrote:
Interesting (unresolved) thread in the comments here, basically unable to fly with the bag! Can’t be in checked in luggage and also cant be in hand luggage.

https://www.wildsnow.com/32521/the-ortovox-arcteryx-litric-airbag-system-a-review/

Snippet

I juste receive my Avabag Tour 30 with Litric inside but I had a problem to take the plane: I wanted to travel from Zurich to Denver but I was not allowed to take my Litric in cabine !!!! the security told me that it’s forbidden following the IATA DGR table 2.3A, As the litric is not a removable airbag it’s considered as “bagage with installed lithium batteries” and the IATA table 2.3A is clear:
“Baggage with installed lithium batteries non-removable batteries exceeding–0.3 g lithium metal or 2.7 Wh = FORBIDDEN” and the Litric battrie is 7.4 Wh !!! Is anybody aware of this problem ?


I have this backpack and have had no issues. My understanding is that the battery AND capacitors combined are 7.4Wh BUT the battery alone is under the 2.7Wh limit ... so allowed. I'll have to check the specification to confirm this though. I've flown with it a few times now and no-one has questioned it at all.
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@Blackblade, have you not returned it under the recall?
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kitenski wrote:
@Blackblade, have you not returned it under the recall?


Not yet, no. I had left it in Zermatt and used it whilst I was there ... so I wasn't in a position to do so. I'll probably get around to it at the end of the season when I bring all my gear home ... but, at the same time, I'm not 100% sure I'll bother. The pack is absolutely great and I strongly suspect that the recall relates to an extremely unlikely event; I've tested it a few times and it worked fine so I have confidence that if I ever need it it will work. To be candid, I've owned an avabag of one sort of another for over a decade now and (touch wood) never had to deploy it in anger.

Did you return yours ?
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kitenski wrote:
Interesting (unresolved) thread in the comments here, basically unable to fly with the bag! Can’t be in checked in luggage and also cant be in hand luggage.

https://www.wildsnow.com/32521/the-ortovox-arcteryx-litric-airbag-system-a-review/

Snippet

I juste receive my Avabag Tour 30 with Litric inside but I had a problem to take the plane: I wanted to travel from Zurich to Denver but I was not allowed to take my Litric in cabine !!!! the security told me that it’s forbidden following the IATA DGR table 2.3A, As the litric is not a removable airbag it’s considered as “bagage with installed lithium batteries” and the IATA table 2.3A is clear:
“Baggage with installed lithium batteries non-removable batteries exceeding–0.3 g lithium metal or 2.7 Wh = FORBIDDEN” and the Litric battrie is 7.4 Wh !!! Is anybody aware of this problem ?



The litric is again available in Europe, does anybody know if the IATA issue with Litric battery is solved with this version ?
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@Patrick_A, I asked Ortovox who said:

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your enquiry and your interest in our products.

Because the ORTOVOX AVABAG LiTRIC avalanche airbag system contains supercapacitors and a small lithium-ion battery, the airbag is classed as “dangerous goods” by the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

However, there is a list of certain products that are authorized by IATA, and our avalanche airbag is included in this list. Every IATA member airline knows this list and can allow the backpack to be transported.

The LiTRIC avalanche airbag is designed to be used as personal protective equipment (PPE) and NOT as a luggage item. Classified as an electronic device powered by a fixed lithium-ion battery:
Nominal capacity of the lithium-ion battery: 3.7V / 2000mAh / 7.4Wh
Capacitor energy storage capacity: <0.3Wh
For personal use of the LiTRIC avalanche airbag, no transport documents are required for air travel and carriage in the aircraft.

Please note: Airline and country-specific travel and carriage regulations can vary and may be governed by additional requirements or restrictions. It is therefore strongly advisable to check current travel and carriage regulations with the relevant airline prior to departure, as well as country-specific entry and exit regulations. Therefore, it is important to inform the airline before booking and provide them with the extract from the IATA table as well as the data sheet for the cartridge. These documents are available to download at the bottom of this passage. Permission to transport an avalanche backpack on a plane is not guaranteed!

Thank you for your comment and your message.
Further information can be found under the following link: https://help.ortovox.com/hc/en-us/articles/12453800182941-Airplane-travel-with-an-AVABAG-LiTRIC-avalanche-airbag
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Thanks a lot for asking and for the answer but I'm not convinced: In the IATA table 2.3a, there is no exceptions for Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), I have double checked several time, and a backpack is considered as a luggage.
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@Patrick_A, yes I agree, I've replied and asked them to be specific as to what IATA regs they are saying are ok!

From what I see, it is still forbidden

Baggage with installed lithium batteries non-removable batteries exceeding–0.3 g lithium metal or 2.7 Wh. FORBIDDEN

However I wonder if they are thinking that it can be carried under this regulation? I'm not sure I'd risk buying one to try and have an argument at checkin or security that my rucksack isn't baggage though!

Lithium battery-powered electronic devices. Lithium ion batteries for portable (including medical)
electronic devices, a Wh rating exceeding 100 Wh but not exceeding 160 Wh. For portable medical
electronic devices only, lithium metal batteries with a lithium metal content exceeding 2 g but not exceeding
8 g. Devices in checked baggage must be completely switched off and must be protected from damage
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@Patrick_A, they replied, with a link to this highlighted section saying Airbags are ok, but right underneath the highlighted section is the one saying the battery is forbidden. So I remain unconvinced I'd fly with one (and happy I bought a Scott bag last year)

https://www.ortovox.com/ORTOVOX/manuals/LITRIC/dgr-64-2.3.a_gehighlighted_EN.pdf
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I'm agree, that's probably why they added the text to their web page " PERMISSION TO TRANSPORT AN AVALANCHE BACKPACK ON A PLANE IS NOT GUARANTEED! "
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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so think it falls under this
Lithium Batteries: Portable electronic devices (PED) containing lithium metal or lithium ion cells or
batteries, including medical devices such as portable oxygen concentrators (POC) and consumer
electronics such as cameras, mobile phones, laptops and tablets (see 2.3.5.Cool. For lithium metal batteries
the lithium metal content must not exceed 2 g and for lithium ion batteries the Watt-hour rating must not
exceed 100 Wh. Devices in checked baggage must be completely switched off and must be protected from
damage. Each person is limited to a maximum of 15 PED.
*The operator may approve the carriage of more than 15 PED
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I wanted to buy a litric bag but a friend told me that there were still problems with the airbag: If you put a thin jacket (goretex type) in the bag close to the compressor, the goretex is sucked up by the litric and blocks the air inlet and the airbag does not inflate completely. Has anyone ever had this problem? it's true that I saw that the compressor was not protected in the bag
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mate just had his cylinder confiscated at Heathrow by Swiss Air as he didn't pre-notify them it was coming!
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Had a nightmare at Gatwick flying British Airways to France today. They confiscated my ortovox airbag cartridge!
Never flying with them again.

I was negotiating for over an hour - security cleared the cartridge but they rang up BA. The BA staff then rang up Heathrow and said that the BA rules are a cartridge can be 50ml volume max (ortovox is 250ml).

I think BA misinterpreted the IATA rules and that the 50ml rule is for sailing life jackets etc. How can anyone bring an avalanche bag with BA if this is how BA interpret the rules!!!

Has anyone had any problems with security ringing up the airlines recently? I’m going to buy another and risk flying it home Eh oh!

Think I got unlucky that Gatwick security chose to investigate in a lot of detail… I have had no issues on 10+ flights

https://www.britishairways.com/content/information/baggage-essentials/liquids-and-restrictions
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@greenlydiax, did you prebook the airbag?
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@spyderjon - with regards to Avslanche Backpacks, BA specifically states:

You do NOT need to contact the airline or inform staff at the airport that you are carrying this item.
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You know it makes sense.
Dashed wrote:
@spyderjon - with regards to Avslanche Backpacks, BA specifically states:

You do NOT need to contact the airline or inform staff at the airport that you are carrying this item.

Ok, but that's surprising as the last time I looked (which was probably years ago) the IATA regs said you had to advise the airline in advance. If you have a cylinder avi pack you should always advise the airline customer svcs in advance by email (note I said 'advise' them you're taking it, you're not asking for permission) and request an email confirmation etc.

A Scott E1/E2 solves all your problems Cool
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Anyone else with experience flying with a Litric backpack in Japan?

Assume the risky part is going through the baggage security in case they take an interest in the battery?

If it’s just checked into a ski bag would this show up on a security scanner?
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@BobinCH, read above re the Litric Lithium battery......seems a very grey area at the moment....and yes they show up on a scanner, my mate got called back to the desk and his canister confiscated when spotted during the hold luggage scan!

edit to add their advice is take as hand luggage https://help.ortovox.com/hc/en-us/articles/12453800182941-Airplane-travel-with-an-AVABAG-LiTRIC-avalanche-airbag
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kitenski wrote:
@BobinCH, read above re the Litric Lithium battery......seems a very grey area at the moment....and yes they show up on a scanner, my mate got called back to the desk and his canister confiscated when spotted during the hold luggage scan!

edit to add their advice is take as hand luggage https://help.ortovox.com/hc/en-us/articles/12453800182941-Airplane-travel-with-an-AVABAG-LiTRIC-avalanche-airbag


Didn’t have any issues at Geneva or Doha but somewhat nervous of Japan…
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@Dashed, @spyderjon, I always carry a print-out of the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations Table 2.3.A wrapped around the cartridge
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My E1 system got a very thorough going over this evening at Gatwick - they swabbed the outside of the bag and then the fan unit. They seemed to have been disconcerted by the trigger wire and handle (which I can see might look dodgy). No bother at all though once they'd figured out what it was.
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[quote="spyderjon"]
Dashed wrote:
@spyderjon - with regards to Avalanche Backpacks, BA specifically states:

A Scott E1/E2 solves all your problems Cool


@Spyderjon - been reading through this thread, just wanted to confirm your Scott E1/E2 comment …. So I also have the Alpride E2 system (BCA Float E2), am flying BA & Turkish airlines in Feb with it, I have printed out the recommended documentation …… do I need to do anything else? Contact the airline?

Most of the posts refer to the cylinder or Litric systems, so just looking for clarity on the E2 system Very Happy

Sorry if i missed the bleedin’ obvious rolling eyes
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kat.ryb wrote:
Hello

I've just purchased an airbag with the E2 system and my understanding is there is no gas and no lithium battery so I don't need any special clearance for flying


@kat.ryb - have you had any further experience or feedback on this? I’ve got an E2 system and am flying BA & Turkish airlines in February ….. like you I can find nothing which suggests there’s any issues, but given the nature of airport security I’m still nervous!

Any additional feedback/experience would help Very Happy
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spyderjon wrote:
Ok, but that's surprising as the last time I looked (which was probably years ago) the IATA regs said you had to advise the airline in advance.



Easyjet now state:
"Avalanche rescue backpack easyJet gives automatic ‘operator approval’ for each passenger to carry one avalanche rescue pack containing cartridges of compressed gas (Division 2.2; non-flammable, non-toxic gas) subject to the following:
The airbags within the backpacks must be fitted with pressure relief valves
They may be equipped with a pyrotechnic trigger mechanism containing no more that 200mg net explosive in accordance with Division 1.4S (no significant hazard)
Spare cartridges are NOT permitted
You must ensure it is packed to prevent inadvertent activation"

So they're effectively saying no issue. I'm still going to drop them an email anyway, plus leave a copy of the IATA regs printed out in the bag. Not going to try taking it through as cabin baggage though, it's hard anough convincing airline staff what their own rules are, let alone adding rando security into the mix too.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, easyJet were fine from Liverpool/Geneva this week. We had bag in hand luggage and canister in hold luggage.
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Litric went through security with no problems in a variety of airports. And was a pleasure to Freeride and ski tour with. The airport security don’t seem to even realize it’s an airbag - there must be nothing that triggers any interest on their security scans
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"Not going to try taking it through as cabin baggage though, it's hard anough convincing airline staff what their own rules are, let alone adding rando security into the mix too."

We usually travel with our airbags as hand luggage. However, on the one occasion we packed them in our hold luggage we were called back to security at Newcastle, just as we were about to board, to explain what they were. Needless to say our checked luggage didn't make the flight (to Canada) but turned up 2 days later Sad .
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