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Flying with avalanche airbag systems

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
For what it is worth, our most recent experience of travelling with airbags and carbon canisters has been even more straightforward than it was before.
As mentioned above, airlines seem to be no longer requiring of pre-notification (certainly BA, Jet2 and TUI at Heathrow & Luton).
I no longer even notify the agents at the check in desk (why would you??) and simply add the canisters (wrapped in a print out of the IATA regs) to my hold luggage (either my ski bag or my clothes suitcase) and carry the actual rucksack and airbag with my laptop etc onto the plane; no issues at check in with any questions and we have just breezed through security at Salzburg.
Can’t help but feel that people over think it (with possible exception of international/USA travel?)
...Nick
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Update just checked into GVA terminal 2 for Jet 2, desk manned by Swissport. Mentioned ARBC. Supervisor called. Asked for evidence I had previously agreed with Jet2, which Jet 2 no longer provide a channel for other than successful check in on way out. I took cylinder out of the pack and handed to supervisor who took it away for checks and consultation; apparently to check new update to regs on gas being class 2.2 (whatever that is). Supervisor comes back 15 minutes later; all good after confirming I had packed it exactly the same as on the way out. Chatting with the Swissport guy it seems that there are subtle differences in how airlines interpret the latest iteration of the IATA regs.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Does anyone have a link to the latest iata regs?
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https://www.iata.org/en/programs/cargo/dgr/dgr-guidance/
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Last time I travelled through Heathrow (carrying an airbag, cylinder and copy of the IATA regs), the chaps at security complained that they use CAA (which implements the ICAO/IATA regs in the UK, but never mind), so here are the CAA regs: https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Before-you-fly/Baggage/Items-that-are-allowed-in-baggage/ (look under "Gases")
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@kitenski, put your cylinder and trigger in ski bag, and carry rucksack as hand luggage.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
For Canadian (AC) internal flights you're still expected to stick the thing in the hold with the cylinder connected, which also works for everyone else outside the US in my experience.

The regulations are less restrictive than airlines/ baggage people.
Giving the airlines/ baggage security people precisely what they ask for ensures friction-free travel; arguing that they're wrong may be less effective.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've actually had a reply from jet2 email as follows. Do all avalanche backpacks have pressure relief valves??

Quote:
I would recommend you check the Civil Aviation Authority website for further information for your upcoming flight with us from Leeds Bradford to Geneva.



Their website advises no more than one pack per person and it must be packed in such a manner that it can’t be accidentally activated. The airbags within the backpack must be fitted with pressure relief valves, further information can be found here.
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kitenski wrote:
I've actually had a reply from jet2 email as follows. Do all avalanche backpacks have pressure relief valves??

Quote:
I would recommend you check the Civil Aviation Authority website for further information for your upcoming flight with us from Leeds Bradford to Geneva.



Their website advises no more than one pack per person and it must be packed in such a manner that it can’t be accidentally activated. The airbags within the backpack must be fitted with pressure relief valves, further information can be found here.


Mammut specifies that theirs do
https://static.mammut.com/file/Flying_with_Avalanche_Airbags.pdf
Quote:
all Mammut/Snowpulse airbag systems are fitted with a pressure release valve
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The 'old' ABS manual implies so: (https://abs-airbag.com/abs-media/Instructions-for-use/ABS_GBA15_Online.pdf), albeit indirectly...

"Attention! Background noise after inflation is caused by the release valve, which automatically equalizes the pressure"
"8.2 Suction and release valve
This combination part is attached directly to the airbag . The button for the release valve is located in the middle of the black suction and release unit . It is protected from unwanted pressure by a red plastic cover "


think I'll be following @Markymark29's approach - although no-one has ever taken any interest in the (explosive) ABS handle, only the cylinder...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Whilst having flown with Swiss from Heathrow many times, I thought that I'd be a good boy and request prior consent from the airline for a flight in a couple of weeks' time. Rather than a brief "thumbs up" reply, I received the following:

Quote:

Thank you for your email.

Kindly be advised of the following while travelling with an avalance back pack:
Not allowed into or out of the USA
Otherwise 1 item per passenger by prior registration. Gas cartridge must be put in the backpack (spare cartridges not allowed).
More information can be found on the following link: https://www.swiss.com/ch/en/prepare/baggage/dangerous-goods

Also, Inform your airline that you are travelling with one "avalanche rescue backpack" as allowed in the IATA regulations table. Make sure you do this within 2 weeks of flying and ask them to confirm, via email (print off a copy of this and take with you when flying).

Print off two copies of the IATA table 23A 2014, put one copy with the airbag and the other copy keep with you’re own documents when flying.

Always check in the whole airbag to go in hold luggage, do not try and take on as hand luggage. (it says you can in the regulations but this is not advised)


Make sure the cylinder and or triggers are not attached to the airbag and that the shipping caps on the top of the cylinder are in place.

We hope the above information will suffice and we remain available should you need further assistance.

Thank you for contacting SWISS and we wish you a pleasant day further.



Shocked

"Your airline", "2014" & "we hope"! It seems that Swiss also has its fair share of uninformed staff that spout poopoo and quote obselete documents.

I think I'll pick up the phone to Heathrow instead (although, given the forecast, I doubt I'll need skis, let alone an ABS rucsack...).

In practical terms, Swiss at Heathrow T2 has always been great - the ABS rucsack goes in a double skibag with cylinder and trigger loose inside and they just wave me through to the oversize baggage guy (who I am sure has never seen inside a skibag in his life!).

Jet 2 at Manchester - different story! Apparently my carbon cylinder was a bomb component and the circles of screws for each airbag were crampons. Apparently, I was the unreasonable one when I asked them to stop trying to remove them from the rucsack Evil or Very Mad
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Jet 2 at Manchester - different story! Apparently my carbon cylinder was a bomb component and the circles of screws for each airbag were crampons. Apparently, I was the unreasonable one when I asked them to stop trying to remove them from the rucsack

Was this recently? Very different to my experience with Jet 2 at Manchester last week. See my post on the previous page
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@On the rocks, March 2018. To be fair, it was probably poorly trained airport staff that, with an early flight, were unable to contact Jet 2's head office for permission.

Nevertheless, surely staff should be trained for this sort of thing during the winter months?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
They did seem to be much better trained this year Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
no hassle at all with jet2 from Leeds to Geneva and back. Per my email to them they just told me to read the CAA regs.

so I travelled with the rucksack as hand luggage and the canister in my hold luggage. Inside the same hold luggage was my wifes full backpack with canister disconnected.

No problems anywhere, backs turned up. The rucksack was auto directed to the "question" lane in GVA, the guy looked at the Xrays and said fine and gave it straight back to me.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Anyone got experience of flying with 2 abs bottles and 2 handles?

I'm flying out to Cham, taking 1x Ortovox abs bag, and intend to take 2 bottles and 2 handles (taking the 2nd out for a friend)

The regs seem to state 1 per person......
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@wozzad, I never tried taking two. I flew many times when I had an ABS and my hold bag was never physically opened, it may have been x-rayed though, this was always with BA and through Heathrow, Geneva or Vancouver, all of which see plenty of airbags.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I haven't noticed it mentioned in this thread, but BA now say on their website that they give operator approval, and that you don't need to inform them in advance or at the desk: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/baggage-essentials/liquids-and-restrictions

However, on a less happy note, security staff in Venice were not having any of it that they are allowed in hand baggage despite me having a copy of the operator approval, manufacturer's tech sheet, and IATA regs. Kept telling me they didn't work for the IATA, and that the Italian Civil Aviation Authority (ENAC) wouldn't allow it. They didn't believe me that I'd never had a problem in Venice, Turin or Milan before but would have let me remove the canister and put it in my hold bag (which I believe *would* have contravened regs.) rolling eyes

I chose to check in the bag as, being BA, they wouldn't charge. As I'm flying with RyanAir next time I might have to travel a bit lighter so I can fit the whole backpack in my board bag... Confused
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Air Products have clearly got this sorted and you don’t even need a pack, perfick

https://www.facebook.com/157506918227611/posts/509780046333628/?d=n
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Grinning wrote:
Air Products have clearly got this sorted and you don’t even need a pack, perfick

https://www.facebook.com/157506918227611/posts/509780046333628/?d=n

I'm not so sure, the north face of the bar can be a pretty hairy ascent/descent and some protection is wise
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big_ben wrote:
For what it is worth, our most recent experience of travelling with airbags and carbon canisters has been even more straightforward than it was before.
As mentioned above, airlines seem to be no longer requiring of pre-notification (certainly BA, Jet2 and TUI at Heathrow & Luton).
I no longer even notify the agents at the check in desk (why would you??) and simply add the canisters (wrapped in a print out of the IATA regs) to my hold luggage (either my ski bag or my clothes suitcase) and carry the actual rucksack and airbag with my laptop etc onto the plane; no issues at check in with any questions and we have just breezed through security at Salzburg.
Can’t help but feel that people over think it (with possible exception of international/USA travel?)
...Nick


As above, I haven't flown much in the last 5 years or so, but on a recent trip with BA, I flew Marseilles-Heathrow-Tokyo-Sapporo, so 8 airports there and back, simply packed my bag with removed cartridge and copies of the IATA and manufacturer's tech sheet in my hold luggage (think this is key to avoid hassle at security rather than trying to take it as carry-on), no need to notify at check-in, bizarrely they're more interested if you've got any ski wax!!!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Farcical scenes as I am currently on a call which has taken about half an hour, with them still struggling with approval of my ortovox carbon cartridge.

Currently stating that the gas volume is too much to allow on.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Super Tennents, who is "them"?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ah sorry, Jet2. Had typed reply in Jet 2 thread then realised it was from 2013, so just copied it into this thread, without realising I hadn't named the airline.

Anyway back on hold. Issue seems to be they are confusing the section regarding the pyrotechnic trigger, and the reference to 200g net of div 1.4s, and can't get beyond that. Back on hold.

“Avalanche rescue backpack, one (1) per person, containing a cartridge of compressed gas in Div. 2.2. May also be equipped with a pyrotechnic trigger mechanism containing no more than 200 mg net of Div. 1.4S. The backpack must be packed in such a manner that it cannot be accidentally activated. The airbags inside the backpacks must be fitted with pressure relief valves.”
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Super Tennents, I didn't ring them earlier this year, and no issues at all after jet2 customer service emailed me back:

Quote:

no hassle at all with jet2 from Leeds to Geneva and back. Per my email to them they just told me to read the CAA regs.

so I travelled with the rucksack as hand luggage and the canister in my hold luggage. Inside the same hold luggage was my wifes full backpack with canister disconnected.

No problems anywhere, backs turned up. The rucksack was auto directed to the "question" lane in GVA, the guy looked at the Xrays and said fine and gave it straight back to me.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 5-03-20 16:12; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Yeah the problem seems to be a misunderstanding of the regs, and misreading what the pyrotechnic charge refers to. I'm like "there's no pyro charge on this." They are fixating on volume of gas now.

Waiting for a call back.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sproggski wrote:
Another thumbs down for Jet2 at Manchester. I had precisely the same issue as@On the rocks and I was probably on the same flight as @jabuzzard.
She also seemed unable to reconcile the weight of the canister (258g) with the 200mg limit for trigger explosive, despite me emphasising that the two things were unrelated. Eventually, after visiting the ABS website on my phone, she gained enough confidence to concede and approve the backpack and, to be fair, then phoned someone to ask how this could be avoided on my return.


Looks like they are still having this issue!!!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Had no problem with Jet2 when we flew BHX to SZG at Christmas, think it just depends on the particularly numpty you get. I'd included a laminated copy of the IATA table and also had an email from the airline, 2 copies of each (one in the bag which was in my ski bag/hold luggage, one in my carry on).

Similar to @KenX I also did LHR>Tokyo>Sapporo and back, 6 flights with no real issue other than the last flight from Narita where I had to open the ski bag to show what was in there but as soon as matey saw the ABS logo he was happy (or maybe 9 days of ski socks meant he just wanted the bag closed!). As Ken says, they seem more bothered about whether you've got wax, although there was an Aussie guy going through security in Tokyo who seemed to be having some problems (there was a lot of looking at the cartridge and something on their phones) so I offered a copy of the IATA sheet to the nice lady that had stopped him and she seemed quite happy with that and let him through.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Not sure what people’s experience of Stansted have been with the new capacitor bags? Security had no idea what mine was and did take a bit of explaining and two runs through security that there were no lithium batteries or anything else unusual!

Just make sure you allow a bit of extra time for security there IMO although they were very nice about it!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@DrNo, Sadly I think your experience is more to do with the observation, attention and ability of the person on the x-ray machine. I’ve made 6 flights with my Scott E1 capacitor bag and it was only queried once at Heathrow, but wasn’t on the previous trip through.

My previous Jetforce battery based bags were only queried/checked once in the years I had them.

I any case they are massively less hassle than cylinder based bags.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My Scott capacitor jobby’s been through Manchester, Leeds and Geneva (twice) with no hassle - I was led to believe you don’t need to tell anyone about them as there’s no gas and no Lithium battery?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@andy from embsay, correct
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