Flying with avalanche airbag systems

A snowHead

Has anybody taken their avalanche rescue backpack on Jet 2 recently? Did you notify in advance or just at check in? it took me ages to get through check in last year while the desk crew phoned head office (at 06:00!) as the check in staff had not been instructed re this

This year I see thy mention avalanche packs on a pdf buried in their website
https://www.jet2.com/faqs/baggage/#gsc.tab=0
(click on dangerous goods, then the link to a pdf)

Hopefully the check in staff have been appropriately trained/informed this year - what are people finding?

A snowHead

It's an IATA requirement to pre-book them in advance so if you don't they have the right to refuse you. Email customer services and advise them that you'll have an avi pack in your hold luggage (with a copy of the IATA regs attached of course) and request they email you confirmation of such and then take a copy of that email to the check-in desk. Simples!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks Jon, that doesn't actually happen, for example Easyjet customer services phone line (when you eventually get through to someone) say you don't need to inform in advance , just declare it at check inn. Easyjet's website has the most comprehensive information on avalanche packs too..

Previously I have emailed Jet 2 just as you advise. Taking a copy of the email to check in didn't help matters, they were still totally ignorant until they managed to get hold of somebody in the know on the phone. By contrast Easyjet's check I staff always seem well informed and helpful.

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T'was a couple of seasons since I last went with Jet 2 (from East Mids) but I had no problem then with the method I detailed.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I have given up trying to fly with airbag canisters, I have left mine in the resort I ski at most. Although the airlines 'may' allow them the local airport security staff can have completely different ideas.

We had two canisters confiscated in Basel Airport even though I showed them all the IATA docs and email from Easyjet. I left them in lost and found and collected the next month when I flew back out. Milan Malpensa I have had loads of issues with the local security as well. Geneva also had some strange looks and phone calls had to be made. Strangely never had any problems flying from Edinburgh airport but the staff there seem to know what avi airbag are.

I had thought about the Jetforce packs, but there are issues with the Lithium batteries in those as well!

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Good old bca float and a hand pump.... ritual on the last run home to pull the trigger!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Edinburgh asked me the other day at EJ check in if I had an airbag system in my bags so they clearly are up to speed.

So I'm going out from GLA to GVA with EJ this weekend. Weeks ago I called the airline (central call centre) who said it was OK with them but that it was up to the airport staff. So I called the airport and got to speak to the airport baggage manager. He checked with the airline local manager too and they both said it's all OK. He suggested that I pack the avy bag as checked luggage. But take the gas on as hand luggage with the IATA paperwork. Then I can talk to them at security (as opposed to me not being present if they find in the checked luggage). This all sounds sensible - as does keeping the gas away from the firing mechanism when in transit. Any comments?

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Read the regulations, which suggest you should not do that, but it's a personal choice of course.

A year ago I flew back through YVR and had about 30 airport staff look at my air-bag as I checked it in, because I told them about it.

Later again that season, and last night, I just checked it.
The hold-bag was inspected by security and they left a polite note to say they'd been, but that was it.

Internal flights in BC/ AB are similar, in my direct recent experience.
=> The check-in people may not know the rules, but the security people do.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@interpaul, i Have flown Bristol > Munich over Christmas where myself and wife have had pieps jetforce bags as our hand luggage and never had a problem. As far as i know the lithium battery is no different to a laptop battery

Also flown Bristol > Geneva with them several times and never once had even a quizical look at them

snow reports

What is people's recent experience with removeable airbag systems like Mammut Snowpulse? In recent years I've packed the whole thing inc backpack in my hold luggage after reports of GVA requiring the whole kit to be packed together, however recently I've seen fellow passengers using the Snowpulse pack as hand luggage, presumably with the bottle, trigger and airbag assembly in hold baggage. if this is now (always was?) ok then it would make life a lot simper to use the Snowpulse bag as hand baggage.

With the Snowpulse system there's three ways you can travel:

- complete pack in hold luggage
- complete Snowpulse system in hold luggage with completely empty pack as carry on bag
- cylinder only in hold luggage with pack containing the airbag/mechanism/trigger as carry on bag

All three methods require prebooking with the airline and a copy of the IATA regs in with whatever is in the hold luggage.

I've done all three without issue both in & out of Geneva, Turin & Toulouse.

You know it makes sense.

I always do email EasyJet in advance (not tried Jet 2 yet) and also Monarch and BA. Never had a problem at all. Take the backpack as carry on and pack the cylinders (x2 as have the Alpride system - CO2 & Argon) in my hold luggage.

However, and I don't want to tempt fate here, I also (purely for safety you understand) stick them to my avalanche shovel so I would imagine that they don't show up noticeably under x-ray !

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@spyderjon, according to TUI you're missing one. They will also allow complete Snowpulse bag and system with cylinder as carry-on bag.

I called them up in March last season to inform them I was packing an avvy bag in hold luggage, and had a conversation with a very switched-on sounding member of staff (knew what an avalanche rescue bag was, and went through the options with me). She was also certain that Gatwick security wouldn't have a problem with me doing this...though I can't remember if she said anything about the return via Innsbruck. I didn't try it out - mainly because I can't fit my helmet and Snowpulse system in the bag at the same time, and don't want to put my helmet in the hold - but I did find some info online supporting her explanation (no. 17 on here, I think).

A snowHead

It all looks very unclear doesn't it!!

I have a BCA Float System. Try getting that sucker filled in Europe! It ain't going to happen. I have a special adapter to fill it at dive centres in the UK. Not a lot of call for dive centres in the Alps.

So advise DO NOT empty the cylinder and remove the head if travelling in Europe. I have travelled with it to Europe and Canada. This is the first time I have bothered to make a proper effort to prewarn the airline or al least as far as I can remember, I think I usually mention having one at booking.

I just had to pay £58 for adding the pack to my luggage after contacting the airline through NATWEST who I booked the package deal with. What a faff at the airport on the way back. So far, depending on the carrier, I have had in in the hold, then in carry on luggage. I have had to have it disconnected, and I have had to have it all connected up? Its very confusing and god only knows what I'd do if I had to deploy in half way through a trip. The companies who sell these packs really should have a clear system set up with all carriers especially BCA its simply not good enough

A snowHead

https://backcountryaccess.com/services/air-travel-regulations/

I have never heard of a airline charging extra for carrying a airbag (apart from being a extra bag to your allowance).

I carry a hand pump, so my cylinder is always empty and the head is removed, not worth the hassle with security or airline. Big down side is hand pump fairly heavy so not good for baggage weight allowance. Will prob upgrade to a electric one in a few seasons.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

a little update on Venice (Marco Polo) airport... they absolutely dont permit ABS canisters in hand-luggage, despite evidence of airline permission and IATA docs. After some heated discussion, I was allowed back through to check-in to re-check my bag with both my and wife's canisters and handles... despite having flown _in_ to Venice with them in hand baggage. Nothing obvious on their website to that effect...

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Just had two bad experiences flying with a BCA bag. The first was with TUI flying out of Manchester. I contacted the airline before hand and after a few telephone conversations and emails, I got 'authority' to fly with the bag in hold luggage. However, at Manchester the local supervisor (after multiple conversations with head office) refused to accept the bag. It seems their main objection was that the volume of the compressed air cylinder was too large even though there does not appear to be a limit for this specified in the IATA regs, nor TUI's own regulations which are pretty much a copy of the IATA's. We spent about 45 mins at the check-in desk arguing. Luckily I was able to leave the cylinder in my car at the airport.

The second problem came a few weeks later flying out of Vancouver airport with BA. Again I'd got authority to fly with the bag in hold luggage from BA. However at the scanner for oversize bags, the security staff asked me if I had a gas cylinder and said I wouldn't be able to fly with it. I said I had authority from BA and showed them the email. Security seemed on the verge of letting me fly with it, but they involved the BA supervisor who took a close look at the cylinder and also said I couldn't fly with it. Their problem with it was that it doesn't say on the cylinder that the contained gas is 'Div 2.2' as required by IATA. I couldn't believe it! After travelling with a BCA bag for 5 years without an issue, I'd been refused twice in the space of a month. I had to leave the cylinder behind in Vancouver.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Decided to take my Snowpulse as carry on at Heathrow. Got an email from BA saying they were happy,thank god. Security insisted the cylinder was screwed into the mechanism rather than disconnected! Think I’ll put the the cylinder in with the skis on the way home.

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I take my mammut snowpluse as carry on with cylinder in the cardboard box it comes in, in the rucksack, plus IATA stuff printed out. Not had a problem in Scandinavia or Geneva

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

and an update from Zurich - flying out of their last weekend, they were adamant that the ABS cylinder be 'attached' to the bag (i.e. screwed in), it was not enough to simply have the canister (with cap screwed on) loose in the bag - they were mostly annoyed that we'd taken the trouble to remove the cylinders and place them in separate trays. But at least they dealt with the two of us together, unlike the UK where they insist on dealing separately.

After all it is free

Interesting perspectives. Currently on a mini tour of Chile, arranged through an agent. BA at Glasgow on way out were supposedly told by the agent that we were carrying (Snowpulse) airbags. No one at the check-out desk knew anything about, wanted to inspect the cylinders, which were in our hold luggage, and insisted we keep them there, which is what we intended. Today flown from Santiago to Temuco. I’d got the agent to double check with the airline, Latam, due to the issues with BA. At the airport no one knew anything about it; had never seen or heard about them before. Had a useful intervention from a very helpful Chilean commercial diver and we jointly pointed out the information they needed was on their own website. We then had a long session with the airline and the Chilean Security Supervisor, which involved several phone calls and radio conversations and the taking of photos. Eventually got clearance, but they insisted on watching us screwing the cylinders into the trigger mechanism, but of course they had no idea how they actually worked. I know others have said this is what some other airlines go for, but it seems the least most sensible option. Anyway as a result we nearly missed the flight having been ushered through the airport, by the airline rep. who had been with us nearly 2 hours by then.
Assuming we don’t have to pull the handles for real, thinking of blowing the bags at the end of the week, to avoid the hassle on the return flight.
Due to the BA strike, we are having to fly back to Glasgow via Dublin, with Stobart Air! I’m sure Eddy’s folk are used to handling dangerous goods, but we will see.

I for one couldn't handle all this faff and hassle, trying to fly with canisters. It means the battery inflated systems (despite their extra weight), would be my backpack of choice.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Anyone have any experience with Airchina and Beijing airport transits with ABS or similar?

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The Scott system is probably the least hassle of all the systems, and is lighter than at least some canister systems. For example a Scott Backcountry Patrol E1 22 has a mass of 1280g for a 22l backpack. The Ortovox Ascent 22 which is an ABS system (aka canister) has a mass of 1780g for the same size (22 litres). The downside is that it costs more. The Ortovox is just £500, where as the Scott is £675.

Note that the Scott is less hassle than other electric systems because the power comes from a supercapacitor which is charged from a couple of ordinary AA batteries so their are no Li-ion battery issues either. Basically a couple of AA batteries have more than enough power to inflate an airbag, but cannot hope to deliver it the short time required for an airbag to be useful. So the system charges up the supercapacitor which also has no issues with getting cold and having reduced capacity (no electrolyte in the battery to freeze and/or temperature sensitive chemical reactions) can deliver the necessary power in the required timeframe.

If I didn't already have a Pieps JetForce I would get a Scott above any other system available. I also feel the ability to practice for real for basically free is very important. Too many people caught in avalanches wearing an airbag rucksack fail to deploy their airbag. If you contrast that with the ejection rate of fighter pilots (a similar high stress life threatening situation) who have a much higher deployment rate the only reasonable conclusion is that practice/training makes a huge difference.

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I want to ask EasyJet for an email authorisation, does anyone know the email address I should write to?

I'm carrying the Scott Alpride 2.0 system which has 2 small canisters (CO2 and Argon) and nothing else hazardous, as the trigger system is just mechanical.

Am flying from Bristol to Milan Malpensa next week, and spoke with Bristol Airport Security who recommended checking it in rather than hand luggage, if I dont have the airline's permission. I then spoke with EasyJet's call centre (overseas), who only read to me what it says on the website re dangerous goods t's and c's. It says they'll carry the airbag system but it's not clear whether they are definitely ok with 2 small gas canisters.

However, there is a second clause in both IATA and EJ conditions: The IATA provisions are clear that additional 'small gas cartridges' are permitted; EJ's conditions only mention 'small gas cylinders' for use with a 'life jacket'. The IATA paragraph states 'self-inflating safety devices', which the backpack clearly is.

This will be the first time I've flown with the equipment as I usually drive, so am naturally paranoid! I'm happy to argue the toss if challenged and will take copies of all the above but I really want an email from EJ saying it's ok is someone knows the email address to contact!

Any help appreciated.

talk to them on chat, ask them the same questions, screen shot the whole convo, print it out and take it with you

You know it makes sense.

Quick update from Christmas trip with Air Canada Heathrow - Calgary. ABS Packed in main hold baggage, as per airline instructions - no issues either way. (We had advised the airline)
Next trip is Jet 2 Stansted Friedrichschafen... will try the ‘copy of webchat’ approach, as the only ref on Jet2 site now is a link to CAA rules... will also check the airport rules, if any, given previous issues...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

thanks, good idea!

A snowHead

I'm flying Fri 17th Jan, just emailed customer.service@jet2.com and had an auto reply saying "we’ll aim to send you a response within 21 days"

@hamilton, did you find a webchat for jet2??

A snowHead

@kitenski, Jump in your car and drive up to LBA and ask directly. wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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@kitenski, I've done it, it works.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Markymark29, good to know, do they have a customer services desk there in the same hall as checkin??

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Flew from Manchester to GVA with Jet2 this week. There is no longer any channel to pre notify the airline. At Check in the staff new what an avalanche rescue back pack was but had to get supervisor sign off, they asked if I only had one canister, how many litres and mg. I showed them a photo of the canister showing volume and explained no mg (explosive trigger) duly signed off and sticker on my hold-all. It then got complicated when I took the hold-all to the awkward baggage check in. Despite previously mentioned stickers the guy manning the x-ray spotted the ARBP and asked if that is what it was( yes) back out it came and I had to unpack the bag and show them the bottle etc. Long wait while the got hold of the supervisor again who duly ticked the box so it was allowed on. So no real problems just inconvenience. I’ll swap my hold-all for a suitcase next time so it goes straight on the normal belt with less hassle.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Carbon canister, so I was surprised that the X-ray operator immediately recognised it, considering boots, shovel, probe etc were also in there

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

The main check in staff are employed by Jet2 whilst the oversize check in guy is employed by the airport. It’s encouraging that both seem to have had recent airbag training by the two organisations but inevitable that there is an awkward protocol for interface between the two of them

Help!!

Flying with avalanche airbag systems

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