 Poster: A snowHead
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I ask this question purely as a matter of interest ...
Like most holiday skiers, I've been rather slack in getting myself proper tuition/coaching - however I've recently got myself onto a couple of intensive coaching weeks. Both course were with BASI instructors and I have to say that not only did I thoroughly enjoy the lessons, but they made a big improvement to my skiing. When looking at video of myself, it also seems that my stance and style (if you can call it 'style'!) looks' very different than before.
However, if I were to go off an get lessons with an instructor from a different training background (e.g. CSIA instructor / ESF / an Austrian Ski Scool) - would I be encouraged to ski differently, or be given contractory advice? For instance, do they have different views on things like wider/narrower stances; more upright/more hunched upper-body ... etc., etc.?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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depends who you listen to.... you will get people here who go back 10 20 years and still think that each nation has a completely different style and way of skiing. This imo has largely changed since shaped skis and most training programmes are roughly similar but some subtle biases do still exist.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abj, what skimottaret, said!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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how this for a blast from the past
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, you could sail on those !
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skimottaret, fantastic photo! 
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not me i hasten to add 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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my daughter had a private ski lesson here, with a French instructor, about 5 years ago, having not had any lessons for many, many, years.
she was full of trepidation but enjoyed the lesson very much - he told her she skied well, but that it was obvious that she'd learnt a long time ago as she skied "like a Barbie doll".
So she learnt a wider stance, etc etc etc and has had a few other private lessons since, all here. She had another lesson with him last week, in the powder, and was a bit frustrated to be told her feet were too far apart for powder. 
Looking at the stance of instructors round the mountain I don't think there's a big difference at all. Last time I had lessons in Austria, which was in 1997, I think the approach was pretty "modern" too - and an instructor who spoke beautiful English having taught PE in Loughborough for 5 years!
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| pam w wrote: |
| So she learnt a wider stance, etc etc etc and has had a few other private lessons since, all here. She had another lesson with him last week, in the powder, and was a bit frustrated to be told her feet were too far apart for powder. |
The perils of thinking there's a "correct" stance or style for skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The truth is that your stance width should be changing all the time depending on the radius of your turn, your speed and the terrain you are skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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you must be smoking a Gauloise and shrugging your shoulders a lot as you ski
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
you must be smoking a Gauloise and shrugging your shoulders a lot as you ski
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whilst sipping a small black coffee...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Funnily enough I was just browsing the BZK forums and came across a current thread, where there are a couple of posters who mention a 'hunched' style which seems to be CSIA trademark ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=71710
... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
[edited for spelling]
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
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I'd say it's actually the other way round, the fundamentals are similar, but the way you are taught them may differ. The "hunched" style you mention (although I haven't seen it in my CSIA friends) is pretty minor really.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abj wrote: |
Funnily enough I was just browsing the BZK forums and came across a current thread, where there are a couple of posters who mention a 'hunched' style which seems to be CSIA trademark ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=71710
... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
[edited for spelling] |
CSIA - hunch and bob up and down... I knew a CSCF guy that swore the CSIA ruined his skiing for a good few months as he was forced to hunch and bob to pass CSIA 3
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't speak for CSIA but I've never been aware of any particular body position/stance (if that is what is meant by style) that has been commonly looked for by the different BASI Trainers (examiners) that have coached or assessed me. I hear talk of things like a rounded back, rotated pelvis, where the hands should be and suchlike, but not one has this been discussed with me in the 6 or 7 years I've been coached by BASI Trainers when working towards my exams.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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abj,
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... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
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No - but differing associations will have differing interpretations of the skills required. IMV having tuition from differing nations will improve rather than hinder your skiing - there is no nationally copyrighted 'right' way to ski.
It's also worth remembering that your skiing skills do not remain static - so what you are encouraged to do one year may not be the same as the next.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="ski"]abj,
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IMV having tuition from differing nations will improve rather than hinder your skiing - there is no nationally copyrighted 'right' way to ski.
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Of course ... I'd be more than happy to have lessons from different instructors / countries.
I guess I'm asking the question as I've only really had lessons from BASI instructors - so was interested if I'd notice a difference.
I guess the best way to find out is to get some more lessons!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| abj wrote: |
Funnily enough I was just browsing the BZK forums and came across a current thread, where there are a couple of posters who mention a 'hunched' style which seems to be CSIA trademark ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=71710
... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
[edited for spelling] |
CSIA - hunch and bob up and down... I knew a CSCF guy that swore the CSIA ruined his skiing for a good few months as he was forced to hunch and bob to pass CSIA 3 |
Sounds familiar, I did a CSIA course (only level 1) and they were very keen on "rounding the shoulders" - pretty much "hunch and bob". Never heard that phrase before but it sounds very apt. To be honest I thought BASI also encouraged that style too.
And of course there is the Arlberg style, often talked about but I could never figure out what it was, but they claim to be the most elegant... I *think* they just mean they are more upright and perhaps less dynamic(?). The Ski School certainly look very cool skiing in formation on the "Snow Show" night in St Anton (very touristy but you have to see it if you in St Anton - the skiing really is stunningly good).
To be honest you do what you need to do to pass the exams, and it's more about listneing to and satisfying the instructors/examiners on your course I think. When I did the CSIA level 1 they were (rightly) more interested in how well I could ski at beginner pace and do a snow plough (of course some argue that snow ploughing is bad, but not the CSIA). At level 3 and 4 it is more about your style but also how good you are at spotting and fixing faults in your instructees.
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CSIA does seem to have a certain house "style" and I've observed a number of instructors in training who seem overly addicted to that style while trying to take it to new situations. However re BASI from observation of the L2 upwards people at Hemel I'd say that they do a good job of looking natural rather than a forced style.
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| sah wrote: |
| little tiger wrote: |
| abj wrote: |
Funnily enough I was just browsing the BZK forums and came across a current thread, where there are a couple of posters who mention a 'hunched' style which seems to be CSIA trademark ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=71710
... so whilst the actual teaching methods sound pretty much universal -- do different instructor associations encourage their instructors to go for a certain style / ski in a certain way (even if the teaching is similar)?
[edited for spelling] |
CSIA - hunch and bob up and down... I knew a CSCF guy that swore the CSIA ruined his skiing for a good few months as he was forced to hunch and bob to pass CSIA 3 |
Sounds familiar, I did a CSIA course (only level 1) and they were very keen on "rounding the shoulders" - pretty much "hunch and bob". Never heard that phrase before but it sounds very apt. To be honest I thought BASI also encouraged that style too.
And of course there is the Arlberg style, often talked about but I could never figure out what it was, but they claim to be the most elegant... I *think* they just mean they are more upright and perhaps less dynamic(?). The Ski School certainly look very cool skiing in formation on the "Snow Show" night in St Anton (very touristy but you have to see it if you in St Anton - the skiing really is stunningly good).
To be honest you do what you need to do to pass the exams, and it's more about listneing to and satisfying the instructors/examiners on your course I think. When I did the CSIA level 1 they were (rightly) more interested in how well I could ski at beginner pace and do a snow plough (of course some argue that snow ploughing is bad, but not the CSIA). At level 3 and 4 it is more about your style but also how good you are at spotting and fixing faults in your instructees. |
BASI used to took about 'rounded shoulders' many years ago, but that was dropped because rounding the shoulders leads to people not allowing the spine to be in its 'natural', position which leads to unneccesary body tension and potentially over a long period damage to the spine along with greater risk of injury.
The 'arlberg technique' is an extremely old teaching method designed by one of the fathers of ski teaching, Hannes Schneider. He was born over the hill from St Anton. This teaching method dates back to the 1920's and 30's. If you can get hold of Schneiders biography it is a very good read. He was persecuted by the Nazis owing to his public celebrity (he was in some of the first ever skiing films) for some supposed jewish ancestry, he had to emigrate to north america to avoid the fate of many jewish people iunder the nazis.
Hopefully no-ones still teaching this method as obviously its very old and was designed when equipment was very different. Though obviously modern techniques will have been developed from these early models.
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