 Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry guys, but if the customer comes away with the views expressed in the OP, somebody on the other end of the phone did something wrong. Regardless of whether they were right or not. It's my opinion, of course, and you're welcome to disagree, but people shouldn't feel the way they do about a situation even if what they are asking for is unreasonable - there's a good way and a bad way to deal with this kind of issue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So basically you should be able to demand anything, however unreasonable, and get it?
Get in the real world 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Monium, The OP said the TO was rude and nasty that is all we know . That could mean anything
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Monium, If you don't think there is such a thing as an "impossible to please customer" I can't believe you are in a customer service industry.
Here we just don't know.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you to everyone for your comments. I understand where you're all coming from and I do obviously realise that it was my gf's responsibility to have valid insurance, it's just one of those unfortunate incidents whereby it had just expired when her accident happened. I don't blame the company for sticking to their T&C's, as at the end of the day that is what they are there for. My main gripe is their attitude and refusal to even look into the possibility of helping us and that they were rude and offensive when my girlfriend dared to ask them to. We didn't demand anything and we were willing to pay for any applicable charges. I note the point raised that this is one side of the story, however my gf is one of the most polite and patient people I have ever met and I would severely doubt she would be capable of behaviour that would warrant someone saying the things that were said to her - for a company to talk to their paying customers in this way is unforgivable.
As requested I have removed the name of the company's representative from my post. I don't see why I should change the name of thread as I did have bad experience with this company. An internet forum is a place for people to air their opinions at it is my opinion that I had a bad experience with *** *****, if they would like to come on here and voice their opinion on the matter then they are more than welcome to. However in a bid to appease other members of the forum I will remove the name of the company from the thread title and all my posts, however I can't remove it from anyone's posts which quoted mine.
In answer to a couple of points asked. She can't come away anyway as the doctor told her she couldn't fly with her leg in a cast. Even if we could have re-booked for feb she probably wouldn't have snowboarded but it would have been nice for her to have a holiday anyway. They wanted to charge me single occupency if I decided to go on the holiday on my own even if we didn't request a refund for her not coming, which to me seemed ridiculous as we would have paid for 2 people to be staying in the room so they would have already received the full amount for hiring the room.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SteveKirby wrote: |
So basically you should be able to demand anything, however unreasonable, and get it?
Get in the real world |
That's not even a little bit close to what I said, but nice try.
Just because someone doesn't get what they want, doesn't mean that they will consider the person telling them they can't have what they want as rude or nasty.
The most effective way to say no is to empathise and listen, but then make clear the Ts & Cs. The call might go on for hours when they keep coming back with it, doesn't mean that they will come away thinking that the person they have spoken to is rude or nasty in any way. In fact, they should come away feeling like the person they've spoken to has done everything in their power to help them, but at the end of all of it, the answer is no or one they don't want to hear.
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| Monium wrote: |
| The most effective way to say no is to empathise and listen, but then make clear the Ts & Cs. The call might go on for hours when they keep coming back with it, doesn't mean that they will come away thinking that the person they have spoken to is rude or nasty in any way. In fact, they should come away feeling like the person they've spoken to has done everything in their power to help them, but at the end of all of it, the answer is no or one they don't want to hear. |
If they had treated my gf as described above then this thread would never have been started.
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SteveKirby, You have hit the nail on the head - end of story. If you cock up take responsibility and learn from it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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my insurance companies seem renew everything automatically unless I specifically ring up and stop them - once they have you as a customer, they have various cute ways of hanging on to you. they always send renewal reminders in good time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowbandit wrote: |
| SteveKirby, You have hit the nail on the head - end of story. If you cock up take responsibility and learn from it |
I do agree with you but as i've tried to explain, this issue is to do with the way we were treated by said company when we asked them politely for help - they could have responded in a way similar to what Monium described (as many companies would) but they chose not to.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Johnnyseven, I can empathise with you, it is an unfortunate situation.
I do think it is completely unreasonable of Ski Total to charge you a single occupancy charge if you were to go alone and if you did not cancel your girlfriend's holiday. They would be double charging for the room without incurring any additional costs themselves (indeed less costs if they are catering for one less person - assuming it is a catered chalet). Are you sure that there is no misunderstanding about this? Or have I just got the wrong end of the stick?
It strikes me that they may have said this if you had cancelled your girlfriend's holiday and you were still going to go alone. I guess there probably wouldn't be a lot of difference between you cancelling the holiday, getting 20% back and then paying a single occupancy charge; or just writing the cost of your girlfriend's holiday off altogether. In fact, I would not be surprised if cancelling and paying for single occupancy would cost you more!
Personally, if I was considering going alone and was worried that someone might charge me single occupancy even if I had paid for two people to go, I would just go alone. I would not give Ski Total notice of this. I would just say that my girlfriend missed the flight or something. I very much doubt that they would try to make you pay a single occupancy charge for the room once you got there. What are they going to do, not let you stay in the chalet after you had paid for it?! Now that would be bad service!
Whatever happens, I hope you get away and enjoy some good snow. If you do go alone, try not to dwell on it and ruin the holiday. That would really suck.
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| Johnnyseven probably should have wrote: |
| I'm a newbie on here and I hope i'm not posting this in the wrong place but I wanted to make industry aware of a bad experience a holiday company had with my girlfriend and I. |
I've edited your OP for you. In the light of what others have said, the above would seem to be closer to the mark. Whining on an internet forum about a company is a lazy arse way of doing things. If you really had a justified complaint, you should have sued, got a ruling and then publicised the result - or not if it went against you.
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You know it makes sense.
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Final suggestion - have you considered taking a different girlfriend? Always worth having a backup for these situations, and a free ski holiday as a start to the relationship is a big incentive for all the single girls out there 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Monium wrote: |
| Final suggestion - have you considered taking a different girlfriend? Always worth having a backup for these situations, and a free ski holiday as a start to the relationship is a big incentive for all the single girls out there |
It's a good idea, however I quite like my girlfriend.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Johnnyseven, you've conducted yourself very well in this thread. I hope you continue to post on Snowheads, preferably on more fun and interesting topics.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Layne, +1
Johnnyseven,
I sympathise with your problems but can see the TO's POV on this (especially as the holiday is at one of the most quietest times of the ski season).
But... poor customer service / communication is a sure way for a business to let itself down and if this is a severe weakness of the company it will be noticed quickly by bith the consumer and the company.
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they were rude and offensive
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I think this may be a bit of a 'buzz' expression.
Were they really 'offensive'. I think a customer service rep has to try really hard to actually be 'offensive' !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Johnnyseven, I hope this turns out ok for you both & your gf's leg recovers quickly. Where are you going?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PJSki, if you are going to rewrite other people's posts, you should at least use correct grammar.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Personally, if I was considering going alone and was worried that someone might charge me single occupancy even if I had paid for two people to go, I would just go alone. I would not give xxx xxxxx notice of this.
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I actually did this once. The missing companion was marked as a no-show at the airport. The TO rep recorded it on arrival in resort. Subsequently I complained that the room I was allocated was too small, as I had paid for a double, and was moved to a palatial room. I wasn't surcharged.
But, in your case, I would just have ignored the doctors and taken the girlfriend anyway. What do doctors know? She can get in and out of a car, can't she? As far as insurance is concerned, I don't remember broken ankles being on any list of referrable illnesses - as long as she isn't going to ski.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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planeurge, I would guess the doctors would be concerned about her increased risk of DVT while flying in a cast
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80 minutes at 850 Mb? Do you think so?
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In the season the orthopaedic wing at Sion Hospital discharges Brits at the rate of one a day to fly back to UK in casts!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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planeurge, I flew back from Grenoble to Gatwick with a ruptured achilles tendon and my lower leg in a cast. But I was specially booked in with a row of three seats by my insurance company so that I could keep my leg up. A fourth seat - just across the aisle, was booked for my companion (acknowledgments to snow card, and to easyjet for going along with the arrangement on a busy day, BTW).
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| Quote: |
But, in your case, I would just have ignored the doctors and taken the girlfriend anyway. What do doctors know? She can get in and out of a car, can't she? As far as insurance is concerned, I don't remember broken ankles being on any list of referrable illnesses - as long as she isn't going to ski. |
1 - you might not be allowed on the flight
2 - you might invalidate your insurance - you need to disclose (small print)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You're right. The airline might ask for a doctor's certificate. Jobsworths. Find another doctor.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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planeurge, hmm. I am impressed by your medical expertise, which I lack. What happened to me was determined by the snowcard medics, and backed up by an orthopedic consultant mate I rang up.
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My ex wife was given a special cast to fly in, with a slot cut out of the front to allow for leg expansion.
This was a temporary cast put on just for the journey, to be changed the day she arrived back in Blighty.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have not claimed any special medical knowledge. Was that irony again, Achilles? But I think we are an excessively risk-averse society. Individuals should acquire sufficient information to put their personal risk into context. The cabin pressure in an aeroplane is usually equivalent to an altitude of 6000 - 8000 feet - the elevation of some ski resorts, and only 15% below normal sea-level pressure. The restriction of movement while sitting in an aeroplane is of relatively short duration on flights to the Alps, and can often be mitigated. It is reasonable to ask yourself whether the restriction is significantly different from one's everyday experience. Of course, if you ask these questions of doctors or insurance companies they will usually respond "Well, if I am being asked to share the responsibility, I'd better say no."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Johnnyseven, Out of interest, were you offered insurance when you booked? It'd be vary rare not to have been.
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Poster: A snowHead
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adithorp, what difference would that make? I get offered insurance and decline every time as I have annual insurance, but it's my resposnibility to make sure the cover is continuous
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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adithorp, rules have changed and Tour Ops now need to be licensed to offer insurance - the bigger tour ops such as crystal can do this but for the smaller ones, it's not an option (info from Wayne @ folgarida.co.uk when I asked why the "all-in price" no longer included insurance)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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holidayloverxx, I was just curious. However if they ask you, do you require insurance, and you say no, then they have done all they can to ensure you're covered. As you say "...but it's my resposnibility to make sure the cover is continuous" and thier asking should prompt you to check.
You also have to sign or acknowledge thier Ts+Cs so accept them. I doubt many of us do read them first (I never do!). The TO is well within thier rights to stick to them. Otherwise why have them? As the TO, I'd check whether Johnnyseven, had travelled with me before and if he was a regular customer maybe gone out of my way, but for a one-off booking, probably not.
I'd sayJohnnyseven, has been very unlucky with the timing of the accident just before leaving, the lapsed insurance which I'm sure they would have renewed before travelling, the timing of the booking in a quiet week for TO's and the alternative being a busier period.
Probably the only good to come of the situation will be people checking thier insurance. There is a tendancy to think you just need it for the period of travel.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| planeurge wrote: |
| I have not claimed any special medical knowledge. Was that irony again, Achilles? |
You're getting to know my style.
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| But I think we are an excessively risk-averse society. Individuals should acquire sufficient information to put their personal risk into context. |
Actually, I agree with that. However, I really do feel unqualified to give myself medical advice when it comes to stuff like how an injured leg should be placed, what precautions should be taken against DVT (I was self-injecting on French medical advice) and so forth. Even in resort, I was resting with ankle above hip as far as possible.
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| The cabin pressure in an aeroplane is usually equivalent to an altitude of 6000 - 8000 feet - the elevation of some ski resorts, and only 15% below normal sea-level pressure. |
I know. I can just about match your time as a pilot with having been an aircraft maintenance officer in the RAF.
| Quote: |
| The restriction of movement while sitting in an aeroplane is of relatively short duration on flights to the Alps, and can often be mitigated. It is reasonable to ask yourself whether the restriction is significantly different from one's everyday experience. Of course, if you ask these questions of doctors or insurance companies they will usually respond "Well, if I am being asked to share the responsibility, I'd better say no." |
Problem is that whilst I can take a view, I feel too ignorant medically. Add to that the element of what happens to my insurance if I act against medical advice, and the elements of choice become limited. That said, I have found that most medical advice I have received rings true. Maybe I am a bit lucky in having a GP who is both a sports specialist and a skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| PJSki, if your going to re-right other peoples' posts, you should at least use correct grammar. |
Will do. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK. It was a flippant remark, and I withdraw it. Don't travel against medical advice.
You might just want to check that the advice was considered with your proposed journey in mind, and was not blanket.
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Monium,
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The most effective way to say no is to empathise and listen, but then make clear the Ts & Cs. The call might go on for hours when they keep coming back with it, doesn't mean that they will come away thinking that the person they have spoken to is rude or nasty in any way. In fact, they should come away feeling like the person they've spoken to has done everything in their power to help them, but at the end of all of it, the answer is no or one they don't want to hear.
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....agreed.. However the problem is that nowadays some people will simply not ACCEPT an answer they dont want to hear (made worse by being egged on to demand this that and the other on internet forums and by the media etc.) and could not care less how much the other person has tried to help them if they dont get the resolution they are demanding.
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| SteveKirby wrote: |
Monium,
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The most effective way to say no is to empathise and listen, but then make clear the Ts & Cs. The call might go on for hours when they keep coming back with it, doesn't mean that they will come away thinking that the person they have spoken to is rude or nasty in any way. In fact, they should come away feeling like the person they've spoken to has done everything in their power to help them, but at the end of all of it, the answer is no or one they don't want to hear.
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....agreed.. However the problem is that nowadays some people will simply not ACCEPT an answer they dont want to hear (made worse by being egged on to demand this that and the other on internet forums and by the media etc.) and could not care less how much the other person has tried to help them if they dont get the resolution they are demanding. |
This is exactly right and especially true of the generations that didn't have the twin moral compasses of Figerbobs and Rainbow during their formative years.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We saw a guy turned away from the check in desk at Chambrey 'cus he didn't have a doctors note to say he was fit to travel and he'd only broken his wrist and was sporting a cast on his arm. The check-in desk argued that he might not be able to operate the life jacket or exit in an emergency and sent him off to try find a doctor.
We felt it was a bit harsh 'cus if he'd put his arm in a ski jacket the check in desk wouldn't have even seen his cast
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WayneC, that does seem harsh. My son travelled from Innsbruck with leg in a socking great plaster after his ankle had been stuck back together with pins and wires (tobogganning ). He wasn't asked to produce anything like a doctors note. That was a few years ago, though - there are probably heaps more rules nowadays.
As for not being able to operate the exit, that's complete rubbish. Kids can't operate them either - that's why they're not seated in those rows.
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