 Poster: A snowHead
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Bloody funny fellows at Hertz charged us per day for winter tyres at Munich airport last week. They said winter tyres are extra - we said ok we will have a car without winter tyres - they say - its the law to have winter tyres- at which point we gave up and paid up. I would like to take this up with the thieving Fitzwilliams because when I hired with Avis last year winter tyres were included in the web price contracted some months before. WHat has your experience been?
Surely this is not on - it would be like turning up to hire a car in June and being told there is a charge for summer tyres -unthinkable.
Please let me know of your experiences with Hertz and other companies so that I can nail the ladies' front bottoms and let others know how to do the same.
yours extremely grumpily,
Tom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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excellent replacement of anglo saxon usage in my post! Respect to snowheads!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tom-B, Hmm. Yes, it's very, very, annoying but it happens at Geneva too - not always, but often enough to give rise to grumpy threads.
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The Sunday Times had a whole series of articles on rip-off car hire firms. Sadly you have to pay to get to their website so I can't send you a link, but the summary was they are all a bunch of crooks, none of them seem that much better or worse than the others.
Rules (to the extent that they follow them) vary from country to country. I have always found winter tyres and chains included when hiring from Avis at Geneva on the Swiss side, and *not* included if you hire from the French side of the airport.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I have always found winter tyres and chains included when hiring from Avis at Geneva on the Swiss side
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But some people have been forced to cough up extra on the Swiss side of Geneva. And the French side don't claim to provide them without an extra charge, so that's fair enough.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I have always found winter tyres and chains included when hiring from Avis at Geneva on the Swiss side
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But some people have been forced to cough up extra on the Swiss side of Geneva. And the French side don't claim to provide them without an extra charge, so that's fair enough. |
Yes, I know the French don't claim to provide them, that's my point about rules varying from country to country. Like I said I have always found snow tyes and chains included with Avis on the Swiss side, but if others have had other experiences I am not surprised, like I said they're a bunch of crooks.
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Alamo Car Hire was allegedly set up by the Mafia. I rest my case.
However, if I were to calculate my lifetime saving for all the free upgrades, it would be a sizeable sum. Don't know about you but I reckon I get upgraded around 1:2 times I hire because they've run out of my car and have no option but to offer a class or more above. So, there are upsides.
Tom-B, having a steering wheel is the law too so the tyres shouldn't be charged extra. Give 'em hell.
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Assuming you made the booking thru them, complain to Hertz UK. I've done this in the past when I got landed for local insurance when I didn't ask for or need and I was refunded quickly and without question.
As I understand it, all (or most of) the local operations are franchises which look for every which way to make money. The global operation, on the other hand, is more interested in brand image. It should be obvious which one to complain to!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I picked up a bunch of car hire leaflets at Geneva (Swiss) once, having a while to wait around. They nearly all listed winter tyres as an extra. When I queried, they said cars booked from the UK generally included that extra (ie you'd pay more to start with). Maybe some bookings through the "consolidators" sites don't, and that's why some people are charged extra.
The charges for an additional driver in Geneva are pretty hefty too.
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Bode Swiller, we almost always get a free upgrade with Alamo. Very nice 4x4 on one occasion in snowy conditions, and we've never been charged for winter tyres yet. I think Hertz charged us on one occasion though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Last year I hired a car from Alamo (Geneva) and when I booked I was informed that winter tyres were compulsory but I was lucky and had a special offer of 'free' winter tyres because I booked in December. How good I thought.
When I picked the car up in January, I was surprisingly asked to pay extra for the 'free' winter tyres !! I was not impressed.
Anyway, when I got back home I complained and complained and after about 3 months of complaining they refunded the charge.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We book exclusively with Hertz from Geneva Airport - winter tires always included in price (when booked via Hertz website) and have always found them to be very efficient.
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You know it makes sense.
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...then eventually goes on to explain that they are not actually compulsory unless the road is covered in snow or ice.
This gives the hire companies sufficient wriggle room to justify charging an extra fee. Provided the roads are clear at the time you hire it, they can legally give you the keys to a car with summer tyres. BUT, if you ran into wintry conditions you would have to stop.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I wish Enterprise had offered me snow tyres for my trip Barrow to Leeds 2 weeks ago
it took us 4 hours to do 90 miles back on the A65, not for the faint hearted
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tom-B, Tom, I went through all this 2 months ago and came to the conclusion that all the hire companies are in cahoots and its just the latest scam bandwagon they are all jumping on. I priced an economy car from Munich to St Anton for a week and by the time added it all up (additional driver, excess reduction, winter tyres........etc etc) it came to about £350 (plus £50-60 fuel) ie £400 so I booked train for 85 Euros return for 2, they can keep their pi$$ take car hire rates and find some other sucker is my view, I'll sit on the train and have a beer!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tom-B,
I'd of told 'em to stuff their winter tyres.
Alternative options -
1. Go to another car hire company at the airport and see if they can price match but inc. winter tyres.
2. Take a short train journey to Austria and rent a car there (which will come with winter tyres). Confirm that you can then drop it off in Munich on the way back.
As I understand it the winter tyre law in Austria and Germany is now essentially the same (anyone confirm this?) only in Austria winter tyres are generally included by the rental companies. You could ask Hertz to confirm why this is. I suspect the car hire outlets in Germany are trying to recover the cost of having to put winter tyres on their vehicles this season.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, Or go on the train, and ditch the car altogether - trains offer a great service in Germany/ Austria
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my view is that if it is the law then it should be included
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BUT WINTER TYRES ARE NOT COMPULSORY:
Google translation of relevant ADAC page
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Conclusion:
* Only those who are in "black ice, snow, ice, slush, ice or frost ice with summer tires, risking a fine
* Who can avoid driving in "black ice, snow, ice, slush, ice or hoarfrost" reliable, must continue to drive in winter with summer tires! can and of course for those who switch to public transport where appropriate - this is especially important in winter traditionally poor areas and for owners of second cars or old cars. |
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| DB, Or go on the train, and ditch the car altogether - trains offer a great service in Germany/ Austria |
Yes for resorts where the train takes you right in (e.g. Zell am See, St Anton) the train is great.
For resorts further off the beaten track and for following the snow / multiple resorts a car is normally the better option. e.g. From here in Vienna I train it to St Anton but generally drive to other resorts.
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I think I'd throwe my toys out of the pram.... in a lovelly and kind way of course...
'Ok then - I'll take the car without winter tyres please so i don't have to pay the excess'.
'Sorry sir we only have cars equipped with winter tyres as it is the winter'.
'Ok then I guess I'll have to have a free upgrade please!'.
DB, fair point - if flying to Munich train to Salzburg/Innsbruck and grab a car from there!
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Trouble is, people have tried those eminently logical arguments at Geneva and got absolutely nowhere. They have your credit card....... and you want to go skiing, not have a 6 hour sit down protest.
There have been a few threads on SHs from sensible and well informed people who have fallen foul of this occasional bit of chicanery - they don't take kindly to suggestions that all they needed to do was be a bit more firm.
It rarely happens, but it happens. Just as it happens that you DON,T get a car with chains from the Swiss side of Geneva - it's something to check in advance. "Does the price I've paid include winter tyres and chains?" and when you get there "Where have they hidden the chains?".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Trouble is, people have tried those eminently logical arguments at Geneva and got absolutely nowhere. They have your credit card....... and you want to go skiing, not have a 6 hour sit down protest. |
Wonder if they would be legally permitted to charge your credit card if you didn't take the car with summer tyres but instead took the train from Munich to Salzburg on the grounds that they were not able to provide something fit for purpose at the agreed price.
The trick is to confirm winter tyres (and chains) are included (confirmed in writing) before giving your credit card number out. If they say it would be extra just say that another car company is offering you a free upgrade and in most cases so will they.
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this link - supposedly up to date - suggests that even when winter tyres are mandatory they are not necessarily included in the price http://www.gemut.com/car-rental-topmenu-310/1052-winter-tires-on-european-rental-cars.html
that may be out of date, but this problem has existed for years in Switzerland. The moral is - check! If it's buried in the small print somewhere (the bits that nobody reads) it's no good getting on your high horse at the rental desk - with 30 people tapping their feet behind you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Whilst I completely get the point that you were charged extra for something you did not want, often snow tyres are compulsory to drive up to certain resorts, so you will need them anyway. The police were stopping cars the other day driving up to Courchevel 1850 if they did not have snow tyres on. If driving up to VT area they are required.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Whilst I completely get the point that you were charged extra for something you did not want, often snow tyres are compulsory to drive up to certain resorts, so you will need them anyway
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theskibug, Dont disagree with your view, I and most of the people above likely agree, however the issue here is the method of charging and profiteering by the hire companies. In the past winter tyres were provided within the hire rate and now all of a sudden they are 15-18 euros per day extra - a rip off in my eyes anyway (a) when they are obliged to hire you a car thats fit for purpose, and (b) winter tyres cost the same as summer tyres, FACT I recently bought some. All the hire companies have to do is take them off, store them and put back on in spring...............but no, we'll skank the hirers for an additional "nice to have" set of tyres is their position. IMO if you hire cars you hire them with all the right bells and whistles to meet good practice for a flat rate.
Thats why I've also given up on Jet2, Easyjet, BMI, Ryanair etc etc, and now travel with Swiss, Lufthansa, BA who dont charge for their hidden extras yet (ski carriage etc)........and combine this wherever possible with a train transfer or if not a taxi/ minibus transfer.................or if not take my own car fully loaded.................Budget, Aviz, Europcar, Sixt, Alamo etc, are TTP and until they wake up my hard earned £'s are going elsewhere. 
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| Quote: |
often snow tyres are compulsory to drive up to certain resorts, so you will need them anyway.
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I don't think that's correct. What the police sometimes do is stop people (whether or not they have snow tyres) and insist that they put chains on. In France, you have to have "special equipment" for certain roads, but winter tyres are not compulsory and plenty of French holiday makers (and English ones) certainly don't have them. Though they are, of course, a very good idea.
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You know it makes sense.
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Winter tyres tend to be more expensive than summer tyres and after lots of motorway runs on snow tyres they wear down much quicker as not meant for lots of motorway driving. We just bought a set of 4 for a 4x4 and was around 450 Euros. The winter tyres were around 90 to 150 Euros each, summer tyres are around 60 to 80 Euros each.
When recently checking out hire car prices it did state on all sites as I recall that snow tyres were extra and often compulsory. Guess its a case of reading all the terms and conditions. But 15 to 18 Euros a day is very steep. Most I looked at were around 30 to 40 Euros a week for snow tyres. Same for ski racks and other extras.
As someone else says car hire often includes many extras not made clear at the start of getting a quote.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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At the bottom of the road up to Courchevel and up to VT the sign often states that special equipment i.e. snow tyres OR chains are required. Both are often charged extra by car hire companies.
Here is a useful report about what's needed and where - http://www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/features/tyres-chains/
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
the sign often states that special equipment i.e. snow tyres OR chains are required.
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But the police will sometimes require chains - even on cars with snow tyres, especially on busy days. No chains, you don't go.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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and so it should be - although wish they would stop people at the bottom and not 3/4's of the way up causing chaos and more people to skid, stop etc...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks everybody for your feedback - what caused my irritation was that I had hired in Austria and the winter tyres were included in the hire price (that is my recollection) it just felt like we were being held up with no real choice - we had flown out early on Saturday for a cheeky three day trip and really did not have time to negotiate from a position of strength i.e. to walk a away from the deal. I will try to talk to Hertz and see if it is possible to get a response from them and will check the ts&cs out carefully next time. We did have an awesome trip to Ischgl with some great boarding and skiing and also some fun in the apres part of the day as you would imagine in Ischgl.
Thanks for all your time and interest in responding
Tom
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Tom-B, if you walked up to the desk and were offered a price broken down into the cost for the card and a separate, mandatory, cost for tyres, that was the deal being offered to you and you were free to walk away. Some German consumer protection laws about misleading prices might apply, but I think you're probably whistling in the wind if you want a refund.
On the other hand, if you booked in the UK over the internet, you have a fair weight of consumer legislation behind you. The OFT's guidance for businesses on the Distance Selling Regulations (leaflet oft958) says, "Prices should be presented clearly and unambiguously. You should make clear the full price consumers will have to pay for the product, including tax, delivery and other charges," and "where you cannot specify the final price in advance (for example because of variable delivery costs), you should indicate clearly that additional charges may apply and how they will be calculated."
The OFT recently conducted a review of misleading pricing practices. Amongst other things, it concluded (leaflet oft1291), "3.44 The OFT's view is that a failure to provide upfront information on compulsory charges can constitute a breach of the CPRs contrary to either or both Regulations 5 and 6 of the CPRs, depending on the particular circumstances of the case."
Write to Hertz and tell them they're breaking the law and that you need a refund and compensation for your time and inconvenience. If you don't get a refund and compensation, report them to your local Trading Standards Office.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jonny Jones, come on... how many times have you ticked the 'I have read full terms' check box next to the sybmit button - without really looking at it??...
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flangesax, That kind of behaviour is exactly what the Distance Selling Regulations are supposed to protect against. Hiding something in the T&Cs does not constitute clear and unambiguous presentation. A few years back, the OFT used the CPRs to force the discount airlines to make huge changes to their websites and advertised prices.
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But if you hired the car in Munich, Germany as far as I know winter tyres are now compulsory, which is why I have fitted them to my own UK car for the drive to Austria this weekend.
So if the car already has winter tyres, the rental price should be the same, as the vehicle is legal for winter driving in Germany.
If both of the headlamp bulbs were out, or the exhaust was blowing, would they charge you for a replacement?
They have had to change the tyres anyway to comply with the law, maybe you should ask them to change them back to summer ones..... 
What a scam!!!!
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Exactly my point above..........................use the train wherever possible is my position on this
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A fair compromise would be to pay for the difference in rental costs between the Austrian rental rate (which includes winter tyres) and the German rental rate.
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FAQ
