 Poster: A snowHead
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We're thinking of taking the extended family to Braehead in a few weeks to celebrate one of my brother's significant birthdays and give his two children (7 and 4) a taste of skiing. (They have not skied before).
Two questions:
1. any tips that would help us out - any pitfalls to avoid?
2. I am of strong opinion that you get good instructors and bad instructors. If it is possible to select for this, can anyone guide me towards good ones please?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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under a new name,
1. Don't go 
Admittedly I've not been for some time, but all that could be said for its is that it is snow, of a sort? Certainly some of it is vintage, as in more than a season old!
My last trip was about this time last year, most of the upper slope was taken up by jumps built for the previous Friday and just left in place for the next. The lower slope is permanently about 1/3rd closed for tobogganing.
The tow paths were barely covered and excellent for scraping wax off your skis, only one tow ever seems to work at a time, no matter how busy the place is?
What was available to ski was a well worn track around the obstacles and the lower slope was concave with sheet ice in the middle and piles of crud at the sides, something like £26 each for the privilege.
I have complained more than once in the past after a visit. Always met with excuses such as anti freeze thingy broken, piste basher away for a service etc etc, always offered a complimentary visit by way of compensation.
Not positive I know but if you search you will see similar comments from other  's I think you can be lucky and pitch up when they have finally cleared the slope, made fresh snow and groomed it but I have managed that once in the 5 or so years it has been open 
Was at the Scottish Ski Show at the weekend and the topic came up in a couple of conversations with peoples thoughts much the same as mine - decided after last visit they would not go back.
However, I live nearby so will go and have a recce for you and let you know how it looks at present.
As for instructors, I've never had a lesson there, maybe someone else can answer that?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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robboj,
Ah.
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I live nearby so will go and have a recce for you and let you know how it looks at present
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That would be extremely kind of you and much appreciated. Given that the plan is just to have a bit of a laugh with the kids, sub-optimal conditions might not be the game stopper that it would be otherwise.
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Never been to Braehead but robboj's comments above seem to sum up the general concensus when it comes to the Xscapes, all very familiar themes.
If you're not averse to being outdoors and to the matting you could consider Hillend as an alternative, Ive heard good things about the quality of instruction there. Aternatively it looks like the next few days will bring a good dump to the hills so, again if not averse to the great Scottish outdoors, you might find some of the ski areas open early but I fear it may be a little too early for instruction although The Ski School at Cairngorm might be able to sort something out for you privately - you'll get very good instruction from them (although I'm a trice biased lol).
Enjoy whatever you decide to do
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Was through a couple of weeks ago and the snow was better than I have seen in a long time. Suggest you phone before and see if there are any events on the day you want to go (or the days before and after) as there may be loads of freestyle features or race gates out which can make the slope not much fun for you.
While asking for a Level 2 or 3 instructor does not guarantee quality they will at least have some experience under their belt. As mentioned above consider Hillend too if its not far from you.
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roga, Are you in the ski school? I fancy a few lessons this year to take me to the next level.
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glasgowcyclops, at Cairngorm yes.
What level are you aspiring to?
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I have to agree with the general comments about the Xscape franchise, although I do have a boarding friend who loves the place (but then he is one plank short of a good slide). Manchester would be a much better bet if you are within range.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 19-10-10 11:18; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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roga, Comfy going fast on blues (Etive Glades) easilly cope with MI and White lady. However I feel I could do with some technique instruction just to get rid of any bad habits.
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kevindonkleywood, Manchester? We'll be in Glasgow.
roga, Hillend, not quite the same thing. Although it would have the advantage that we could do any instruction ourselves, whereas Xscape seem to want to insist that you use their guys if you're not "competent".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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under a new name,
Not got any comments regarding the instruction, and my experiences are from the Castleford place [not been to Braehead since it opened] soo, in my expericence some of what robboj, has said does hold re jumps, toboggan slope etc.
BUT IMO you KNOW that you are not going to get fresh powdery bluebird or whatever in a fridge. For an hour or so slithering about it is fun enough.
PLUSES with Little ones in mind
Have got extensive changing areas for you and your delightful family to change - plenty lockers, and separate change areas if you want to change in a changing room. Not all scrummed up in one tiny place. A plus.
If you book lessons, get there PLENTY ahead of time to get your tickets sorted, as once you have pfaffed on getting changed, you have to pfaff on getting the skis too if you are hiring.
Go well wrapped up. I know this will sound dumb, but it is colder than you think... I usually find I overheat when I ski en plein air, but am always chilly inside. Probably to do with you not moving as much as you would.
It can be busy, and my experience has been that you may have the frustrating experience of only one poma running, but folk were generally civilised about it.
If you want to do jumps etc, they will politely insist on helmets.
The beginners bit is nice and separate from the main slope, so much more tranquil.
IMO I would much rather have had my first go on snow, rather than the horrid dendex slope in Dundee all those years ago.
Afterwards there are of course plenty places to go to have a bite to eat.
It will be fun.  
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| glasgowcyclops wrote: |
| roga, Comfy going fast on blues (Etive Glades) easilly cope with MI and White lady. However I feel I could do with some technique instruction just to get rid of any bad habits. |
Well you might be able to find somone at The Ski School before the season officially starts but the officiial start is IIRC around the 18th December, I'm starting around then but only working busy periods/holidays over the season. There's loads of instructors around who can take you to the next level, just make sure you explain where you're at and what you want out of your sessions if booking.
| under a new name wrote: |
| roga, Hillend, not quite the same thing. |
Deffo not the same thing as in not having something that looks like snow but sometimes IMHO better to be honest, certainly than the Xscape I've been to but I can understand why the snow is a draw for sure, just remember it'll be reasonably cold so wrap up appropriately (especially the wee ones) or hire some decent clothing whilst there. Oh and factor in the cost of parking (they charge) and non returnable money in lockers.
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| Although it would have the advantage that we could do any instruction ourselves, whereas Xscape seem to want to insist that you use their guys if you're not "competent". |
Well I'd say what you call an 'advantage' is what I'd call a disadvantage, unless you have qualifications and experience yourself? (Remembering a BASI L1 may have a qualification but virtually no experience!)
Hillend may well have rules about this too although they may be less obvious given the environment is that bit less controlled then a dome. Certainly I, and other colleagues, have *politely* asked people giving 'unnoficial' lessons to friends/families to leave the dry slope I teach at when away from snow. Usually it's a basic Health and safety thing, as in our clients are in serious danger of being injured by them or a basic I really don't want to leave my clients to administer First Aid to these plonkers when they give themselves an injury type thing but often people (certainly the ones at the receiving end of the 'lesson') are pretty relieved because it gives them an excuse to end what they invariably have realised is a dangerous and scary situation.
I've never even given a lesson to my wife and/or kids because IMHO teaching members of your familiy, qualified or not, is rather like getting driving lessons off your mum or dad ... a place I also wouldn't recommend going to. As for people getting beginners lessons off unqualified friends and family, having seen the results (including injuries) and having had to (un)teach the brave ones after they've been taught the wrong stuff as well as having heard the "I'll never ski again" type comments from some unfortunates I'd suggest it's not something sensibly done. However you may wish to ignore my comments which is your perogative, if you do it though do pass on my regrets and best wishes for a speedy recovery to the recipients of the 'lesson' and I hope it's not too long before you speak to each other again  
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| roga wrote: |
Well I'd say what you call an 'advantage' is what I'd call a disadvantage, unless you have qualifications and experience yourself? (Remembering a BASI L1 may have a qualification but virtually no experience!)
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ditto BASI L2
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You know it makes sense.
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| smithski wrote: |
| ditto BASI L2 |
Yup possible but less so than L1 where you could, according to the rules, do your 35 hours shadowing without having any experience of teaching. Most people will do some shadowing but I've met a few L1s who have mostly done their 'ski school experience' hours in ski hire, reception and other indoor areas and many with only a few hours of shadowing (as in often just watching some lessons but not getting involved). It's not IMHO in the spirit of the qualification but it is admissable given the way the rules are written. This means some newly qualified L1s only involvement in real lessons may have been as a spectator.
With L2, even if the above is the case, the further 35 hours that have to be done prior to the course are far more clearly oriented towards teaching, from the BASI website:
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| "A total of 35 hours minimum of shadowing/teaching experience is part of the Alpine Level 2 Instructor Qualification. These hours need to be completed before attending the Alpine Level 2 Instructor Course and must be submitted to the BASI office 5 days prior to commencing the Alpine Level 2 Instructor Course. Ideally these hours should be teaching on a dry slope or indoor slope or shadowing an instructor in a snowsport school in Europe." |
The pertinent phrase being "Ideally these hours should be teaching on a dry slope or indoor slope or shadowing an instructor in a snowsport school in Europe" so they are actually suggesting that you have to teach or shadow properly. Having said that I have met people at L2 who have done little teaching themselves and have simply shadowed lessons for the full 35 hours - better than L1 but still not necessarily real experience I agree.
If hiring an L2 instructor IMHO, the people to look out for are those intending to take the qualification further (which entails at least 200 hours of logged teaching before the main L3 technical module) and/or those with a good track record of working in ski schools (as in teaching rather than shadowing or hanging around!) - both a little dificult to ascertain and I would say that anyway (being in a position to say yes to all the above) but there you go ...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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roga, yes, agree with much of what you say. I would add, there are some L1 instructors working only in the UK who do a mighty fine job, they are very experienced (at doing what they do) and have no aspirations to take the BASI path further.
Equally, as you rightly say, there are people who do their L2s with no actual teaching experience (70 hours could be all shadowing - iirc BASI used to recommend the extra 35 hours to be shadowing rather than teaching, am sure I read that somewhere when I did my L1). This leads to newly qualified L2's (some of whom may have aspirations to do ISIA/ISTD) who will lack the experience of some valued L1's.
My point being that the qualification alone is no benchmark. I seem to recall a thread about this topic some while ago with a heated debate incling rob@rar and an eagle ... so won't start it all over (unless the damage has already been done) 
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Poster: A snowHead
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roga, no, srsly, 'twould be an advantage for us. Honest. Your points are fair and reasonable, but while we might not have the qualifications, we have the experience.
Hillend definitely didn't have formal rules about this, but that may have changed since I was last there, (circa 1998?) Anyway, it'll be in the fridge, so nothing for you to worry about.
MarjMJ, cheers,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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roga, your lot have been known to do some stuff in november on the mats at glenmore lodge, for the weans at least - a few saturdays in a row kind of deal if memory serves
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| smithski wrote: |
| roga, yes, agree with much of what you say. I would add, there are some L1 instructors working only in the UK who do a mighty fine job, they are very experienced (at doing what they do) and have no aspirations to take the BASI path further. |
Yes agreed, I should have made that point. I meant to suggest that it's newly qualified L1s who might not have the experience, although even that's not always the case - I'd done some 90 odd hours of teaching and shadowing by the time I did my L1 but had done the SSE qualification initially.
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| Equally, as you rightly say, there are people who do their L2s with no actual teaching experience (70 hours could be all shadowing - iirc BASI used to recommend the extra 35 hours to be shadowing rather than teaching, am sure I read that somewhere when I did my L1). This leads to newly qualified L2's (some of whom may have aspirations to do ISIA/ISTD) who will lack the experience of some valued L1's. |
Again agreed, I've met some in that position although there's far more likeliehood an L2 would have more experience than most L1s.
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| My point being that the qualification alone is no benchmark. |
Again I agree
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| I seem to recall a thread about this topic some while ago with a heated debate incling rob@rar and an eagle ... so won't start it all over (unless the damage has already been done) |
Don't remember that one although I might have seen it and thought I'd best keep clear lol!
| under a new name wrote: |
| roga, no, srsly, 'twould be an advantage for us. Honest. Your points are fair and reasonable, but while we might not have the qualifications, we have the experience. |
Okay, I'll take your word for it ....
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| Hillend definitely didn't have formal rules about this, but that may have changed since I was last there, (circa 1998?) Anyway, it'll be in the fridge, so nothing for you to worry about. |
Good, I'll be able to sleep at night and not worry
BTW, as mentioned above when factoring in prices don't forget they charge for parking (sneaky) and money put in the lockers is non-returnable - it does add a bit more cost to the day in my experience.
| barry wrote: |
| roga, your lot have been known to do some stuff in november on the mats at glenmore lodge, for the weans at least - a few saturdays in a row kind of deal if memory serves |
Yes, never done it myself but I have heard it's happened - not sure if there's anything planned this November but there may be snow anyway, it's certainly falling at the moment
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga,
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charge for parking (sneaky) and money put in the lockers is non-returnable
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All very sneaky IMV, also totally un-impressed by their web presence. Pretty crappy site if you ask me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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money put in the lockers is non-returnable
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I had forgotten about that, did not make for a very Happy OH when we realised that we had run out of change 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Was at Braehead on Saturday morning before going to the Ski show at the SECC , snow was pretty good (have seen it much worse) we were there for 10:15 though so I suspect that we got the best of it. As for the other criticisms mentioned above yes they only seem capable of running one tow at a time and there is very little coverage on them, only one jump left over from the Friday night session on Saturday morning but I have seen it with four or five closed off jumps which makes it a bit more of a challenge and you end up just skiing the ruts in between. Haven't personally had any instruction so can't really comment. Although expensive in comparison to dry ski slopes (Hillend being my local slope) I would much rather ski on something vaguely resembling the real thing for an hour a couple of times a year to keep my eye in rather than risking life and limb on the plastic/grass combination they have at Hillend.
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robboj, cheers for that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ooops I thought this was yet another helmet thread, on first look I read Barehead Instructors 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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under a new name, +1 for Hillend. Much more fun than the inside of a fridge. Better views as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you have to go back to the locker, ask for a token. I do.
My big beef is the cost. £31 for two hours at weekend daytime. They call it peak, but it is always empty. Last year at £25 and buy 3 get one free, it worked out at £75 for 8 hours. But now it is £124, no deals etc. So Instead of going about 20x last year. I've been 2x. I'll risk <£20 on average if the snow is poor, but I'll not waste my time going there only to be charged £31 for 5minute queues and only one poma. The lift always stops on a Saturday or Sunday because of learners falling etc. I'm not slagging the beginners. We have all been there, however, they if they charge peak prices, they should offer peak service IE 2 tows.
Ahhhh thats better, rant over.
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Lizzard, nah, I know all about Hillend. Forget the views, It's snow, even indoor snow that's wanted.
Used to cause all sorts of hilarity on teh School Bus to Hillend on passing the sign for teh speed bumps (I wonder if they're still there?)
"Humps ahead"
Schnortle, schnigger
ah the sophisticated wit and wisdom of 15 year old lads.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| roga, no, srsly, 'twould be an advantage for us. Honest. Your points are fair and reasonable, but while we might not have the qualifications, we have the experience, cheers, |
That's what people tell us when we ask them to leave our slope after they have been "teaching." The dry slope environment as well as an indoor slope environment is a different beast. So much consideration needs to be taken into account of how the slope works etc, that as a client, you are just not aware. The things that I have seen happen at our place over the years from people who apparently know what they are doing are pretty incredible - ranging from the downright hilarious to the downright dangerous.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We're just back from a ski demo which Blues were running at Braehead. The snow was soft and sugar like, fine for a ski test if you ski at Easter but not really if as we do, ski Jan/Feb in the Alps. Only one tow until it got really busy but the second closed after about 20 mins. Good value at £10 for 2 hours but that was the Blues price. Not sure about paying the full price.
As a fun intro for kids it will be fine.
Well done to Blues for organising the day. If I dont like my new Recons, I might be tempted by Salomon Lords.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Scottish Scrutineer, do you not ski Scotland as well or are you in the Alps all Jan & Feb so too knackered out when you get back?
Anyway skiing different conditions helps improve your skiing, sugary stuff included (and if you cannae cope with a bit of sugar dunno why you're considering advanced skis like Recons and Lords unless it's just to try and look cool )
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 4-11-10 12:06; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Scottish Scrutineer, Went there last year for the Blues day. Althoght they give you a goody bag it was a marketing paux pas. THe forllowing week Ellis Brigham did it for free.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, Sorry i've not been back to you, I will have time to drop in there today or tomorrow. Just wanted to check you had not already been?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| robboj wrote: |
| under a new name, Sorry i've not been back to you, I will have time to drop in there today or tomorrow. Just wanted to check you had not already been? |
No, probably weekend of 24th Nov.
Cheers!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, went in on my way home. Actually looks ok, seems reasonable snow cover, evenly spread with no lumps or obvious ice patches. Two rails and 2 kickers, one on top level and one on bottom, both at opposite sides so taking up as little space as possible. Tobogganing space much reduced. The tow at the side of the viewing platform wasn't being used but looked well covered, the one in use is too far away to see at that angle. About 10 people on the snow, mainly good 'boarders using the jumps, one skier who makes me look like I can ski like Bode Miller so no real indication of snow quality to be seen or heard?
If your plans are still just for an hours fun with the kids then you'll be fine
P.S. Ellis Brigham are having their ski test day on Saturday 20th, which probably means it will be busy. You say weekend of 24th but that's a Wednesday?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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robboj, thanks, cool, yep, would be the 20th, that's very good info, cheers!
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