 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi. I'm looking to get some new (my first) skis and it would be great to pick something up at an end of season price if possible, but not a priority over getting it right! I ski confidently on reds, more cautiously on blacks, and stay away from bumps still. This year in les Arcs I did a bit (one day) of off piste/powder, and spend increasing time in the trees and little runs and ungroomed snow off the sides of the pistes. I'd like to do more and more of this, but can't imagine spending much less than 50% of the time on the piste.
I'm 6'1", and weigh about 82-85 kg, and was using a ridiculously short (164 cm), especially as it is a twin tip, K2 Public Enemy in Les Arcs (not my choice, but I was too stupid to realise until later how short this was for me). I liked them a lot, although they did feel a little heavy, and perhaps were not as stable at speed (probably too short?). I now understand that these are considered a good 'compromise' ski that I think will suit what I want to do.
So, I gather the PEs are now the Extreme, and am considering getter a pair in 179 cm, but was wondering what compares that I should consider as an alternative. I have read many good things about the Line Prophet 90, for example.
Any thoughts much appreciated, and thanks for taking the time to read this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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heard lots of good things about the prophet but at your stage it might be a bit much in terms of width and stiffness. i've only skied PEs and they had a nice solid feel to them and i could imagine them being pretty versatile on piste with the odd dabble off to the side (i'm about 10kg heavier than you and a reasonably OK skier to give context but I was using them in a snowdome so my testing was limited by that)
prophets would be good if you were pretty confident on all pistes and were looking to spend more and more time off piste
are you limiting yourself to twintips? lots of nice non-twin "all mountain" skis out there
IMO
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My view is don't compromise, look for the best you can get and grow into them if neccesary. Try a pair of Volkl Mantra 184cm for a day or 2 and you'll never look back - I have had these for 3 years (red/ black 07/0 , my friend the same (newer white/ black 08/09). His are stiffer and better at speed he reckons. We actually skied each others last week to get a view. The red/ black 09/10 model has a titanium core I think and gets the best reviews - mine are awesome though and I am v happy, well used and abused, best skies I have had and no reason to look around, they are the biz!
The mantras are a great cross-over ski, and get 8-9/10 in all areas in reviews - stable when carving at high speed on reds/ blacks, awesome stable and best in powder where they are 2nd to none and also powering through the bumps. They like to be driven hard, are definitely not a slalom short radiuys ski, and need pushing and fast, and like any performance kit they need to be worked to get the best from them. Read the reviews, everyone I know who has them rates then 100%.
Look at K2 Apache also.
Good luck. Check out deals on line, import from EU ski shops (no import tax) and you'll get a great deal now onwards I suggest.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.
Arno - The appeal of the Prophet 90s was the stiffness for piste speed with the width, but if this could be too much for me now, so be it. What about the Prophet Flites? I'm not limiting to twin tips, it's just what I had tried.
Markymark29 - I must admit, a ski wider than 90 mm wories me a bit. I don't doubt that it is capable of the combination of piste/off-piste that you describe, but I'm not sure it would with me as driver! I will check out the Apache.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| The red/ black 09/10 model has a titanium core I think and gets the best reviews |
I want a ski with a titanium core. At best, I'm not going to look it up, the Mantra has a 'titinal' (an alloy with a little titanium in) sheet placed over the core. What I think you are looking for is a ski with a Magna Core, but they are hard to find. 
gdc, sounds like you are quite sold on the Extremes. I've not skied them but I know quite a few people who have the older PEs and really like them as a very versatile all mountain ski. There are loads of other skis that you could consider but if you already want the Extremes, get them.
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Don't discount the Mantras guys, take out a test ride - Mine have done 12 weeks now in last 3 years and are just as solid as I need them, I'm 92kg like carving fast (only on empty pistes I add) and also powder and bumbs and they have never faultered once, they hold an edge in all conditions including savage ice and are my #1 choice. HAPPY HUNTING!
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| Quote: |
gdc, sounds like you are quite sold on the Extremes. I've not skied them but I know quite a few people who have the older PEs and really like them as a very versatile all mountain ski. There are loads of other skis that you could consider but if you already want the Extremes, get them.
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Actually, I'm quite looking forward to doing my research as to possible alternatives, it's just that, well, I tried them, and I'm not sure about my chances of trying anything else...
I'd really like to hear any thoughts on the Prophet Flite though - at 90 mm, a significant side cut, and not as stiff as the Prophet 90, it sounds like it might be a valid alternative that doesn't seem as daunting as the Mantras...
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gdc, if you are a decent technical skier already, the prophets might work, as might the mantras but going from 164 extremes to sensible length prophets/mantras (ie 180cm+) is a bit of a leap IMO. might be the right thing to do if you're expecting to do a lot of skiing next season and improve rapidly
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The flites might be a bit flappy on hardpack. Have you considered somehting like the Scott missions, might be more ideal.
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I didn't get on with the Prophet 90's (in 179) - they were much to stiff for me unless I charged everything, but I'm shorter and also weigh a lot less than you. However, you need to be a good skier to drive them properly. Same with the Mantras.
Scott punishers would probably fit the bill, and some of the dynastar sixth sense range - maybe the Distorter? Volkl Bridge?
Do you really need twintips though? Lots of great allmountain skis that would do exactly what you want from them, Dynastar Sultan 85, K2 Apache Explorer, Fischer watea (is it 82 or 84?), Head Peak 82
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 15-03-10 17:55; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
gdc, if you are a decent technical skier already, the prophets might work, as might the mantras but going from 164 extremes to sensible length prophets/mantras (ie 180cm+) is a bit of a leap IMO. might be the right thing to do if you're expecting to do a lot of skiing next season and improve rapidly
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I'd say it's doubtful that I'd get to ski more than 2 weeks next season. I was hoping that the Prophet Flites might be something a little less of a leap than, say, the Mantras. The Flites appealing because of the side cut of a ski slightly wider than the Extreme.
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The flites might be a bit flappy on hardpack. Have you considered somehting like the Scott missions, might be more ideal.
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Likewise, I guess everything is relative, but I was hoping that the Flites would be a compromise - ie the 90s would be too stiff.
The missions do look interesting.
Thanks again to all of you for your advice
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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scott punishers are good, although a little on the soft side and can get a bit flappy at high speed
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Personally if I were looking for a ski to buy nowadays I'd be looking into the smaller manufacturers, any money I spend I would want to get the best product available and not give it away to some mega-corp who cut corners to pay their directors more! Try checking out a few of the companies below (I've skiied quite a few of them if you need any personal views but we might be a bit far apart in our skiier-profiles for my advise to be worth anything?)
whitedot freeride, (of course!)
liberty, (but be careful of the tune)
ON3P (sick early season deals from yankland)
PM Gear (may be a bit wide at 99mm?)
Icelantic (some of the nicest graphics around)
DPS skis (but be prepared to spend!)
Black Crows (pretty serious on the stiffness scales tho!)
Fat-ypus skis (another niche Yank manufacturer)
Praxis (not too sure what size they go down to?)
Surface (sick pow boards but as for all-mntn?)
may want to check out www.exoticskis.com for some reviews?
Personally I like most of the Line skis and find them fun to use, the K2's are pretty heavy with a cheap build from China with a nasty tendancy for the topsheets to fall off so I'd personally look elsewhere. Hope this give you a few ideas for something different!
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You know it makes sense.
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the_doc, What about my favourite brand - Elan - do you think they would have anything that might be suitable for the OP? I won't recommend a specific ski, but in a thread listing loads of brands, which as you rightly point out yet again are mainly the mainstream players, I think all the manufacturers ought to get a name check at least, and very few folks actively seem to slate Elan's so they must be a fair brand of skis to look at.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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gdc, hmmm....
- unlikely to ski more than 2 weeks
- cautiously on blacks, and stay away from bumps
- can't imagine spending much less than 50% of the time on the piste
You probably won't like this but here's my take.
1. It's not economically sensible for you to own skis. You don't ski enough to wear them out in a technologically efficient horizon. I.e. skis will be so different and you'll want new ones way before you've worn them out. Plus hasle of carting them around, airline charges, etc. I'd rent for a little longer if I were you.
2. It sounds like you're progressing too fast to want to own skis. (Unless I'm wrong) either you buy something that isn't performant enough and you need to change it too soon (see economic argument above) or you buy something too challenging and end up taking up snowboarding ('cos it's easier).
3. Otherwise, the K2 sounds OK. Not way too fat, although maybe a little. I would seriously advise against anything fatter 179cm I'd think might slow down progression. Chin height is the typical shop recommendation so 175 max or so for you. Actually, a mate who's a Swiss instructor and about your build skis 170s very happily.
Just my thoughts. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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under a new name, Awww poor gdc, leaving all the good reasons not to have them, to one side the best reason for owning skis is that they are nice to have sitting in your room between ski trips. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gdc, given that you're in London, why don't you go to Milton Keynes or Hemel & try a few skis out? The Ellis Brigham shop in the Xscape MK has quite a decent selection of skis that you can test for free - I think Snow & Rock at Hemel do charge a little for their test skis, but will refund the charge if you buy from them. I know a snowdome isn't quite the same as the real thing, but you can still get a surprisingly good feel for the skis...
The K2 Extremes are really nice, & really easy to ski, btw - you'll have fun on them if you do decide to buy them I'd definately try the K2 Apache Recons as well - I think these may be more what you're after, tbh...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the_doc, some of those skis look amazing, but seem to have a bias towards the wider powder orientated types. The DPS skis look stunning, if a tad expensive....
under a new name, can't argue with a word of your logic in (1) and (2), but who said anyone was going to be that rational?! Your comment about length is very interesting - I had assumed that given that I had skied longer the previous year (chin height I think) that something around 179 would be suitable. I reckon 175 is right on the button as far as chin height is concerned for me (assuming I'm wearing my ski boots!). That said, would a twin tip 179 be fairly similar?
Megamum, absolutely!
Jo225, yes, testing would be great, but time is fairly hard to come by I'm afraid.
Having done some reading on people's reccomendations, the Scott Missions seem a possibility, but are perhaps a little long in 179 (and 89 wide as well). Looks like I will have to dig through what dimensions are available in all these models to find options around 175 long, 85 wide.
On a more shallow note, I've just seen a picture of the underside of the Extremes - they are quite lurid aren't they? I guess I don't have to look at the bottoms though.
Thanks again to all.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gdc, I am 5'11" and 85kg - got Scott Missions this season, really pleased with them in a 179, no way would that be too long for you, I have also found them much better on piste than the 89mm width would suggest.
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Hi MEGAMUM, donno anything about Elan but as one of the bigger brands I'd say they've got a solid rep for producing decent skis, but a lot of smaller indy companies use/used their expertise to produce their own gear including Armada and Movement so I've allways been curious about their product, shame just never had a chance yet!
GDC, yeah a lot of the new companies are biased toward pow and bc jib because thats the way the sport is progressing but many have a solid all mountain range aswell, take WhiteDots ONE at 89mm under foot its a SERIOUS piste ski if you tune it properly (and dont ride rails on 'em like me!), liberty's hazmat (94mm) is a sweet all mtn tool but maybe a tad wide for your choice, try the LTE at 87mm? Many at Snowheads love Icelantic's Pilgrim which is a super nice 90mm under foot.
DPS Cassiar at 80mm, or Wailer at 95mm? ON3P Jeronimo, 96mm? Black Crowes Viator, 86mm (nice!!!!), Surface Nine Life (76mm), all decent skis and I'd say a fair all mountain size, not pow sticks?
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I think another reason to own your own skis is that you're used to them. When I rented skis I'd often spend a while getting to know the different turn radii, what the edges do etc. There are little differences like where the bindings are mounted that you don't want to change all the time. Plus if you have your own skis you can be sure they've been properly edged and waxed. I've used hire skis a few times that had gone really soft, not been sharpened and a rubbish wax-job.
As for changing technology, presumably if you don't ski often your technique won't evolve at the same rate as skis, so it's worth sticking to what you know?
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Hi all. Just thought I'd check in and let you know that I went with the Prophet Flites in 172 cm, which I managed to pick up for £219 (w/o bindings). Hopefully I'll get a chance to get to a fridge sometime, but if this year is anything like last, it's more likely that it will be next season when they get their first run. Which gives me plenty of time to sort out some bindings....
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