Moguls

A snowHead

Having been at least partly educated in the way of carving by the snowHeads I was wondering what thoughts you had on the ski=ing of moguls?

A snowHead

Depends what your level is. Are you just trying to survive them, or are you trying to ski the fall line with speed and style?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ponder, I think survive with some remanants of dignity snowHead

...I'm happy on most reds nowadays and I fancy approaching some black runs - which normally involves moguls. I find large lumps of soft snow on piste a bit challenging because I tend to leave a leg behind.

(Not sure of the US/Europe piste grading translation)

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Start with small flatter bumps (pisted runs that have been moguled up towards the end of the day are great).

Maintain a narrow stance.

Aim to maintain a constant speed (i.e. not increasing the speed with each bump)

keep forward, try to maintain a bit of pressure on the tongues of your boots.

Use your poles, go slightly further across the fall-line with them. Don't let your hands get back, be agressive and 'quick-stab' the bumps with your poles.

Keep moving / turning all the time.

Absorb the bump by retracting your legs but be sure to extend into the troughs, try to maintain snow contact with your skis at all times as this is what controls your speed. Try to maintain the same head height above the snow. Practice by traversing a bump slope while retracting / extending your feet. (but be sure not to traverse across others).

Either keep moving in the bumps or get to the side, don't stop in the middle and block the run.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

DB, You make it sound so easy rolling eyes

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I almost forgot ....... keep smilling wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

When you turn, either turn on the top of a mogul or between them, turning on the side of the mogul frequently causes wipeouts

After all it is free

DB, Yup . . . that smug grin of those that can at those who can't Laughing

However I did get one (just the one) run on the last run of Thurs, where it came together and worked Shocked

Now I've got to get some lessons and practice.

Before you go into the moguls get the hang of compression turns on a smooth piste. I struggled with moguls for years until a trainer taught me that the technique is the exact opposite to that you would use for short turns on the piste. For compression turns rather than stretch and bend your legs as you would normally, keep your head level as if in a tunnel, pull your knees up underneath you and then strech your legs out straight into the turn. When you take this into the moguls it is the bump that forces you to absorb your legs up under you, then scrape your legs straight over the backside of the mogul.

Sorry if this isn't too clear, anyone else want to try and explain? Best bet is to ask an instructor to teach you compression turns.

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Another good exercise on piste to help get you prepared is side-slipping, leading on to pivot slip turns.
Side slip straight down the slope, ensuring you are centred on your skis. Then side slip going slightly across the slope forwards as you go down, and then again slightly backwards. At all times, make sure you are looking down the fall line, and centred on your skis.
Then go from this into making turns, so, side slip facing left, then quickly turn and face right.

It's easier to do this on a steeper slope than on a shallow one.

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Foxy, any photos of you aboard the Seth Pistols in a mogul field?

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David@traxvax, actually, no. Maybe give me a couple of weeks, and I might have some...

Best single (and simple) tip is to keep on doing something, rather than do nothing because you don't know what to do next! Up to a point it isn't so much important to do the right thing, as not to do nothing, because a mistake you can recover from, but once you freeze there's no going back. Which roughly translates into more technical terms as important aspects in bumps being dynamic balance, rhythm, reactivity, etc.

Second one is to look ahead - so don't focus on the bump you're on, but look at how are you going to get to one a bit further down. If you can find a quiet area of bumps, so you won't annoy anyone else by stopping, start with just two or three bumps, and then gradually increase the number you try to link together and start adding to the route as you go on.

Third one is not to get too hung up on anyone telling you that you must always turn on the top of the bump, in the trough, on the shoulder, or whatever. Nice in theory, but bumps have a habit of not having read the theory, so you'll need to adapt according to what you find.

Tip four - which is probably a bit late in your case (and mine Sad

) - is to start young, so you can do them on such small skis that you can just ski round them Smile

Our three year old is already zooming down bumps and overtaking adults on them - I'm going to have to work a bit harder on my own bumps technique next season if I'm going to stay ahead of him for much longer!

You know it makes sense.

Following on from Okanagan, another tip for bumps I was given is to keep a regular turning rhythm regardless of where or what the bump is, almost as if they're not there.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

First thing to master is absorption. When you're on a flattish home run last thing at night and you come across rollers or bumps (ie not moguls) practice absorbing them.

Then, as beanie1 says, practice on a piste, making the turn when retracting your legs.

Then, look for some moguls at the side of a european blue or red and near the bottom, pop in a ski the last 3 or 4, absorbing and turning on the top of the mogul.

I would advocate the "constantly doing something" method proposed by Okanagan, only when you have go the hang of moguls when skiing them slowly and then only on really flat blue moguls. Otherwise you will find you become jet-propelled !!

Crying or Very sad

A snowHead

The best instruction I've had is to use a variety of techniques when skiing a field of bumps. Turn round some, on the top of some, on the shoulder of others, don't be afraid to sideslip to a bump you fancy, depending on the particular bumps you come across.

Keeping going is also a good idea, preferably (but not necessarily) with a bit of rhythm, if only to get it over with more quickly (only joking).

I've also learned that I need to be more agressive in skiing bumps than I am on flat pistes (where I should probably be more aggressive too, but hey, I'm on holiday).

I was obliged to put these theories to good use a couple of weeks ago skiing one of the 'extreme ski route' (so called) sections of the Streif in Kitzbuhel, which while looking pretty short and innocuous from the top, almost immediately turned into huge moguls of blue ice (despite the excellent snow), and was a lot longer than I'd expected. I won't say that I looked good, but I stayed upright, and did it reasonably quickly (considering that I had to walkie talkie the OL to tell her that it would be a bit longer than expected before we rejoined her). What almost finished me off was my 10 year old son (who skied it much better than I did) taking his skis off at one of the nasiest, steepest, iciest sections to have a slash. Why there? Why did he take his skis off? We'll never know.

A snowHead

I've always been aggressive in the bumps. (Normally end up fighting with them on the floor and getting my @rse kicked).

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks for all the tips, I will print out and take to Val Thorens!

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richmond, please advise your son not to do that again Shocked

I saw a guy in Whistler a few years back who took off his own skis in order to rescue his son, who was lying prone on the icy bumps having lost his own skis while demonstrating that the bindings would work. Needless to say after about two steps the guy's boots lost their grip and he ended up sliding down the entire bump field on his back, front, head, heels etc. As he neared the bottom he was catching really big air. Very inpressive. The odd thing was that he survived Confused

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

When starting out on bumps I learnt to stem on the tops of them, then slide down the side/downhill aspect of them with a thump.

Then I learnt to keep my weight well forwards, my legs close together, absorb and slow down on the soft snow on the uphill aspect, edge check and quickly turn to slide down the side/downhill aspect, ready to pick the next one.

Then I learnt to turn at a faster tempo, to absorb the ridge in the troughs on each compression turn and to look 2/3 bumps ahead.

Finally I learnt not to lift the tails of the skis whilst coming round (ie not to overabsorb actively) but to keep contact with the snow, allowing the skis to be brought up by the ridge in the trough (unless in trouble in which case staying balanced becomes more important), not to overturn my skis and to try to keep rhythm in the fall-line not missing a bump. This last one can mean a fast ride in some bumps, and not so fast in others.

Nirvana is going straight down, no turns, just staying balanced and bouncing off/absorbing the moguls as they come, with the odd daffy and 360 mixed in to give the knees a breather.

Sadly I learnt all this in a book and still can't ski moguls.

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Alan Craggs, rest assured that I mentioned to him forcefully that there are better places to have a leak, and I certainly didn't take my skis off. I guess that it wasn't his day for the brain which he shares with his twin sister.

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After all it is free

Ian - at our standard it is easier to ski on the sides of the moguls as opposed to the troughs which can get very skied out and icy. An Austrian instructor told me to creep around them like a cat - more of a crouchy stance. Not so much 'up' movement, because the bump will give you elevation.
He also told me to not keep skiing for miles across the piste looking for a good bump to turn on! You have to look down the hill and take a reasonably straight line. Don't plant your pole a long way ahead of you. I don't know what everyone else says, but I've been taught to plant my pole half way along the length of my ski. It's funny, the teaching in Austria gives you a set of 'rules' to ski to - do this / do that etc. In France it was a lot less regimented. I like the rules way, because it is ingrained on my brain now and I can improve on that.
Whilst I can't ever imagine having the energy to ski a zip line on a mogul field, I do like skiing quickly on a mogully piste, because the bumps send you a little airborne and it's fun. snowHead

Plus, mogul fields get spoilt by snowboarders - they scrape all the snow away. They scrape all the snow of pistes as well Toofy Grin

erica2004, umm that doesn't make sense, if you plant your pole halfway along the length of your ski you will be past it before you begin your turn thus making the pole plant irelavent, theoretically you should take your pole out of the now as your body passes it

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D G Orf,

If you are on a steep slope and turning your skis 180 degrees the pole plant will be halfway along your skis, directly down the fall line from your body. Don't see that you'd be doing that in moguls though.

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beanie1, only if you are making the turn from stationary. If you are moving, and plant the pole half way along the ski, then by the time you are turning, the pole, and you, will be in the back.

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Wear The Fox Hat,

I am talking about steep slopes. Skis 180 across the slope, leaning forward, out and down the hill, checking on every turn. Will only work in this situation. Visualise it. If you take the same movement onto a slope where you are not turning a full 180, pole plant will be much nearer the ski tips. Spent quite a bit of time analysing this with the trainer when i did my basi 3.

beanie1, ok, in that case then you are effectively turning from stationary (or as you put it "checking on every turn"), so we are agreed.

You know it makes sense.

beanie1 said:

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

But don't you turn around your pole ?- if you plant it ahead of you, it impedes your turn. I guess it depends how fast you're going. And isn't a pole plant achieved by just a flick of the wrist, not a whole arm movement ?

A snowHead

erica2004,

you would normally plant it ahead and in front of you. i would say, as above, it depends on slope rather than speed. you are right - it is a wrist not arm movement, and if you think about holding your arms still when you plant your pole, the pole plant will be in front of you, maybe halfway between your boot and ski tips, depending how long your arms are and your upper body position.

A snowHead

I find that if you plant your pole firmly enough it will eventually drag you round. Which is the real reason you should carry a shovel with you - so you can dig your pole out again.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Mark Lehto Laughing

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erica2004, although we started at the same time - I have a feeling you've overtaken me snowHead

slikedges, I haven't even paid for a book!

I think I may do some condensing of this thread before printout...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

beanie1, Let's talk about that upper body position in steeps then? I am really interested in how one might work up to that without entirely too much (exhausting) front-to-back recentering on each turn while on less steep terrain.

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Best single piece of advice that still sticks in my mind on entering bumps is "PLF, PLF!" ("Plant like f***....!")

Mark Lehto's right - if you reach forward as far as you can and try to plant your pole on the far side of the bump then it automatically helps to pull your body and your feet into the right position to finish the turn.

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comprex,

keep really forward and facing downhill. if you are bringing your skis 180 across the slope and want to remain facing downhill you will naturally be planting your pole halfway down the ski, and down the slope from you. if you plant it further toward your ski tips your upper body will be facing across the slope, not dowhnill.

I wouldn't do it on less steep terrain.

After all it is free

comprex, This is getting interesting. I’ve been working on the premise that I should be trying to maintain my torso perpendicular (or a little positive) to the fall-line, keeping a ‘load’ into the front of my skis or board along a ‘zipper’ line. Then letting the tails of my skis or my trailing leg ‘float’ or retract to absorb the impact with the leading shoulder of the bumps in sequence.

I’ve no idea what I’m supposed to be doing with my poles, but I’ve had two experiences, one ski, one board, where it seemed to have worked. In both, my upper body was isolated from hips and legs with my torso keeping an even track down the hill whilst my trailing leg and/or my knees are very busy following the track of the bump shoulders by crossing under my pelvis centre-point.

OK this is very subjective, but are my poles just being used to ensure that my upper body (torso) is stabilised in relation to the fall-line and providing a fulcrum for the articulation needed by my legs to absorb/respond to the moguls?

I’m becoming convinced that there is a method/technique for a boarder to ride moguls in the same manner as a skier or even manage them better.

Or have I just argued myself into yet another medivac? . . . hurt me nice!

If I get 180 deg to the fall line then it's hard work. I'm taking the speed out of the turn at 180 deg and slam dunking each turn, it burns the legs like hell. It's less tiring for me to keep snow contact and keep pressure as uniform as possible otherwise it's a skid / slam / skid / slam / skid while getting jolted from one turn to the next. If I overturn past 180 deg then all momentum is lost or I end up going backwards. Absorbing the bump not just in the vertical plane but at the angle I hit it helps. I'm aiming for "S" shaped turns where possible not just a series of slams.

http://www.psia.org/psia_2002/education/TPSArticles/teaching/tpsfall97mogulpoleplant.asp

Masque, I don't see how you can retract so easy on a board, it's commonly accepted that planks are better tools for moguls although snowboarders can help to fill in those nasty "v" troughs.

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beanie1, I understand the final result. I am trying to see if there is a progressive sequence of 'proper technique' that might increasingly contain all the elements of what you would like to achieve, suitable for increasingly steep terrain.

I would plant the way you say in a 'pedal-hop' turn rather than anything I would use in light-duty bumps.

Does the style you describe project the upper body downhill, or does the upper body stay quiet?

Masque, I don't use them for any sort of fulcrum, but I might really relate your stability bit if I understand it correctly. For me they're mostly just there for reference.

Yes, I've seen boarders do moguls well. I don't understand the stance/pressure issues on a board enough to tell you how.

Edit: DB thank you for voicing my concerns so well.

Help!!

Moguls

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