 Poster: A snowHead
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I have an annual travel insurance policy (HSBC via aviva) that covers for off piste if accompanied by a guide
We've not really done much off piste before, so it's not been an issue, but we'd like to do some now.
I've tried ringing to get the policy upgraded, or get a short new policy, but the problem is that I'm already in the resort so can't purchase travel insurance for a trip that's already begun. I've tried, but also can't upgrade my present policy.
any ideas to get some basic cover for unaccompanied off piste skiing for a few days? anything possibly available locally via the tourist office or ski office?
I'm in Les Menuires...
cheers
John
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Speak to the lift office, I beleive the French offer Carte Neige (or somehting?) insurance?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thanks - I'll go to the lift office first thing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jpow112, if you are an inexperienced off-piste skier, depending on your plans, I would recommend skiing with a guide or an instructor qualified to take you off-pitse.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helen - I agree - I'm really talking about off piste maybe 20m or so outside the piste boundary, I'm just concerned if one of us has an accident 5 metres from the piste boundary that the insurance will default.
I've proposed to the others that really we need to do an off piste course, or group lesson if we want to take it seriously.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Ski Club of GB run many introduction to off piste courses and their insurance will cover you for off piste.
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jpow112, you can add insurance to your lift pass as long as you do it within 48 hours of purchase. Otherwise, you could get an annual Carte Neige from the ESF office for 56€.
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You can get Resort insurance at the ticket office in most resorts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I really wouldn't worrty about 20m. Say you fell there, if it even comes up or get your mates to drag to back to piste.
SOHFCU
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Nickski, Yup - you crashed on piste and cartwheeled off the edge 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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downhillstuart, ...... but only within 48 hours of buying your pass. And only if you turn up in person, undamaged, and with some ID, when I come to think about it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jpow112,
Might be worth a call to HSBC to see if they can extend it to cover you off piste. I did a quick comparison of many of the 'social skiing policies and their off piste coverage at the start of the season, but they won't cover you if already abroad - if you are thinking of going again this might be useful.. https://www.moneymaxim.co.uk/articles/off-piste-ski-insurance.htm
Most insurers are nervous of policyholders trying to get cover part way through a break because of the risk of an accident already having occurred..
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I have a similar issue, in that I need what is described as 'unlimited off piste' insurance for my holiday in a few weeks time, the majority of which will be spent off piste. My insurance policy seems a bit vague on the topic, and says the following.
"Special Conditions applying to off-piste skiing and off-piste snowboarding;
Off-piste is defined as any skiing or snowboarding which does not take place on any normally marked public open pistes. For your protection and to ensure continuity of cover under this Policy, you must adhere to the following conditions when you are intending to ski or snowboard off-piste:
1. You must observe the rules of your resort or Winter Sports area. If in any doubt you should follow specialist local advice.
2. If you are an inexperienced skier or snowboarder you must not under any circumstances attempt off-piste skiing or offpiste
snowboarding unless you are under the supervision of a guide.
3. Your guide’s advice and instructions must be strictly followed at all times.
4. As a general rule you should exercise common sense and follow sensible local practices.
So is this unlimited as long as I don't classify myself as 'inexperienced' (which is another topic for debate best left to other recent threads...)???
Don't really want to take out another insurance policy (this one is annual), but also don't want to not be suitably covered.
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You know it makes sense.
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On this subject, has anyone ever actually had their insuracnce claim declined because they were just a few metres off piste (i.e. between pistes). The topic comes up almost as often as Helmet wearing  but I wondered if anyone had real experience.
FWIW my insurance covers me off piste provided that 'I take reasonable precautions regarding my safety, and follow all local warnings' which I take to mean I'm OK within sight of the pistes provide there aren't signs telling me not to be there.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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went to the ski lift office at 9am and got the Carte Neige for the family, for today and tomorrow. Woman was very snooty and said I should have got it when I bought the ski pass, but I explained that I recharged my ski pass online, and there was no option for this.
I just needed the ski passes, no id, and then took 5 mins.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jpow112, woohoo success! Enjoy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jpow112, gosh, they're slack. Bargain!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jpow112, wouldn't get away with that in Serre Che, the assurance option is clearly listed as an option for online purchase
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jpow112, Carte Neige will get you stretchered off the mountain etc., but not sure it covers much else; so if you break your leg or back when off piste the problem still exists that your policy is probably null and void with that respect
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rayscoops, however, most of the resulting medical bill would be picked up by the NHS, so the problem is much reduced.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, agreed it covers a fair bit with respect to immediate cost for an injury, especially combined with EHIC, (assuming jpow112 has an EHIC card) and should give some peace of mind, but it should not be viewed as a replacement for the HSBC insurance and all the respective consequential coverage
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rayscoops, this is about to turn into another of those dullsville insurance threads isn't it? Time for a curry, I think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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it's not as good as proper insurance, it will get us to a hospital, will pay for a potential helicopter rescue, and we've got the EHIC cards, up to date, but it is about reducing risk.
Next time we'll have much better insurance, and will also get some proper off-piste training.
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Whats wrong with Dogtags deffo of off piste?
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Q. Do you cover Off Piste Skiing and what is the definition of Off Piste?
A. The generally accepted understanding of off-piste (or backcountry) skiing or boarding means 'going out of bounds', i.e. outside the resort boundary (if there is a boundary) or simply off the marked pistes if within the resort area. If you are going out of bounds or outside marked areas of the resort, we recommend you do so with a fully qualified local guide because, in our view, you will be taken to the best areas and you'll have a higher degree of comfort concerning your safety. However, we do not insist that you take a guide, you are insured for off-piste without a guide provided that you are not going alone or going against advice. And remember, even some areas within a resort may be considered out of bounds because they are hazardous. In most parts of North America, going out of bounds contravenes local law and you may, at best have your lift pass confiscated or worse, face arrest and have an overnight stay courtesy of the Sherriff's office. Normally there is a physical fence with warning signs so you shouldn't be in any doubt.
It is your responsibility to ensure that on any particular day you are aware of and obey local advice, information and instructions given by the resort authorities and that you obey any signs and information you encounter on the mountain - the source of this information will vary resort to resort and country to country and it is your responsibility to find out. If a section is marked 'closed' there will be a very good reason for it (e.g. high avalanche danger) and ignoring such signs or advice may invalidate your cover. You should be aware that under the terms of cover, needless self-exposure to peril except in an endeavour to save human life may invalidate your cover.
Obviously, you must never ski off-piste alone. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boredsurfing, there's so much wrong with that, and it's been so extensively covered in other threads........ it's fine if you ski in North America. But in Europe, it's rubbish. And if you don't believe me, just try asking them what happens if you ski off piste when there's an avalanche danger warning of - say - 1.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, Sorry but I think that is the clearest definition by any insurance company, certainly judging by comments on other ski sites.
Pam if you can find a UK insurance company with a clearer definition please post it here for all to see. Preferably before the end of the month when my policy is due for re-newal.
BTW where do they post an avalanche warning of -1?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 4-03-10 22:25; edited 1 time in total
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phone a broker or snowcard.
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You know it makes sense.
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Boredsurfing, but I talked to them. 3 or 4 times. I asked if it would be "going against local advice" if there were any avalanche warnings. Yes, it would. But I said there are always avalanche warnings, even if they're only 1. Yes, they said, if there was any avalanche warning, I wouldn't be covered. I explained the problem, they said they weren't skiers so didn't understand (very courteous, tried to be helpful, but clueless) and promised to get a view from underwriters and ring me back. Never did. So I didn't buy it. All the policies tend to be a bit difficult to interpret - it was the complete lack of clarity I got when I asked Dogtag which had me so worried. They actually told me, on the phone, that if there was any avalanche warning at all then I wouldn't be covered. And when I said I found that difficult to believe, and wanted more expert clarification, I never got it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, Well I'm sorry for you, around 2/3 years ago I had a problem with Fogg Insurance who were supposed to be the best at the time.
I chatted to the bloke from Dogtag at the ski show and he pretty much said what the definition above says which is fine by me.
Where I ski in France the Piste patrollers huts all have sign boards giving off piste advice and as long as you abide by that info you are covered.
Further more I have had one claim with Fogg which took forever to settle and for me to receive monies due returned.
With DogTag the entire claim was settled and cheque received within a fortnight. Hence staying with them.
They say the definition of a good insurance company is not neccesarily the price or the detail but the willingness to pay out. On that score Dogtag wins hands doown.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
pam w, Sorry but I think that is the clearest definition by any insurance company, certainly judging by comments on other ski sites.
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But it is a completely and utterly useless definition for anybody skiing in Europe.
It is not only unclear, it is almost completely meaningless in a European context, since the concept of "out of bounds" simply doesn't exist there..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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alex_heney,
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If you are going out of bounds or outside marked areas of the resort,
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Surely thats clear enough? Even in Europe? Do you ever go off piste beyond ski resort areas in Europe?
How would you write a description of off piste for Europe?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
alex_heney,
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If you are going out of bounds or outside marked areas of the resort,
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Surely thats clear enough? Even in Europe? Do you ever go off piste beyond ski resort areas in Europe?
How would you write a description of off piste for Europe? |
I'm not sure what "beyond ski resort areas" means in Europe.
I would personally simply define it as anywhere which is not on a marked piste - although even then, are itineraries included or not?
But even more important IMV, is the question of how you define "against advice", although TBH I think that most of the decent insurers will show common sense as to what that means, if it comes to a claim.
Of course with some policies, it really doesn't matter what is defined as "off-piste" since there is no difference in the cover, they just mention it as one of the things included (e.g. Direct Travel). http://www.direct-travel.co.uk/faq/what-winter-sports-activities-do-you-cover.aspx
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
How would you write a description of off piste for Europe?
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I'd say "off piste" is anywhere other than a marked run (i.e. marked with either green, blue, red or black marks down each side) which is shown as a named and marked run on the relevant piste map. European resorts (at least the ones I've skied in) don't have any resort boundaries. You're either on a piste, or off-piste. "Out of bounds" skiing is a North American concept, isn't it?
On about my third phone call to dogtag somebody suggested that their definition might include anywhere you could get to by skiing downhill from a ski lift (i.e. not places you could only reach by hiking/skinning uphill). I said I'd be delighted with that definition as I don't do walking uphill, and they promised to consult underwriters and get back to me. They didn't, though, and I'm not a bit surprised - even though I only do a teeny bit of off piste, I do know that there are horrendously dangerous places you can get to by going downhill from a ski lift.
I did ask about local advice - the only local advice available where I ski is usually the normal avalanche warning system 1 - 5. That's when they told me that they wouldn't cover off piste skiing if there was any avalanche warning in force. Have you ever known a time when there wasn't?
Maybe in other parts of France the piste patrollers huts have advice up saying "area X is safe to ski off-piste today, area Y isn't".
What IS clear, I think, in this kind of insurance, is that you are most definitely not covered on any closed piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, I think the point is that some of us have insurance with bank accounts etc and are trying to plug the gaps in those policies rather than buy an additional full policy. Incidentally were you paid out for an injury or something whilst off piste ?
The Dogtag policy, especially considering PamW discussions with them, is as wooly as it could be with regard to the 'going against advice', and it seems if I pop off the side of the piste on my own I am not covered either
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 5-03-10 11:06; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, pay out was for my wife edge of piste broken wrist.
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What IS clear, I think, in this kind of insurance, is that you are most definitely not covered on any closed piste.
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Reading comments elsewhere one insurance company qualifies instructors to open closed pistes!
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| Nickski wrote: |
| I really wouldn't worrty about 20m. Say you fell there, if it even comes up or get your mates to drag to back to piste. |
In most cases that would probably be fine. My concern however would be that a serious accident can occur anywhere. Say someone was a short distance off piste and had a serious neck injury meaning that they had to be lifted off by helicopter and then had subsequent expensive medical treatment, would the insurance company pay up, assuming the victim was not insured for off piste?
The chance of such an accident might be remote but sod's law says that these things can happen.
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Insure and Go just have a note in the policy which says Off Piste Skiing is covered - no mention of guides or anything.
I went with them as the kids like to mess around on bumps etc to the edge of piste and as said, can bet that if they fall it will be there
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I met the MD of a company called MPI yesterday, who provides policies predominently for ski companies, but also have a retail product. He is an avid skier himself (ex Ski Club rep), hates the idea of insurance companies wrangling on this issue and the wording in MPI policies is as follows:
OFF PISTE
Many policies either exclude this or limit skiing ‘off piste’ to be with a guide. It is our view that this is impratical as one can ski off piste unwittingly and in certain circumstances it is possible to ski on ‘a pisted’ run which is designated off piste. It is due to this type of confusion that we at MPI have negotiated with underwriters that there is no such exclusion or limitation in this policy. There is however a general requirement common to all insurance to behave in a reasonable and sensible manner.
Also, going right back to the initial question raised in this thread he is quite happy to cover those already abroad needing to take a new policy if they extend a break beyond the number of days specified in policies with other companies or want wider cover. Finally he will extend the number of days requiring cover on his own policies.
For more info visit: http://www.moneymaxim.co.uk/companies/travel-insurance/MPI-Brokers-review
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FAQ
